Your posting a broken, and yet repairable amp from over 10 yrs ago as your example ? Do you want us to start linking all the broken china made amps that are on here . I am willing to bet there are alot more of those and we all know they are not worth the time to fix .... I will not buy any car audio that is disposable, even if it has a PG label on it. I would rather buy his broken Ti then anything from them in the last 10 yrs. That broken amp is worth more then some of their new stuff out of the box and that is no shit mang.
I don't know what you are talking about. He was referencing this post from a PG employee:
OldSchoolFool wrote:"I think that's because Ti's were insanely popular. I'd be more curious to know the failure rate per number of units sold."
Fowler is correct, numbers and rate considered.
Also consider that people working on Octane, engineering and marketing efforts, are not at PG now. Cough, ahem, starts with an "ex" something something.
The Ti series that came after 600.2 all had dual fans. (something that was poo poo'd by the cough, ahem, now where was I...) No thermal issues there, and the 800.1 ALUMINUM version weighed like 2 pounds or less.
The same person who pushed Ti800.1, 1000.2, 900.7, and 1200.1 thru also pushed Xenon (please excuse the first run...). But do you see point without being too specific?
My point being that different people make a company. Some come, some go, flavors change. It should be noted that almost every single employee there including the stupid mechanical guy has 10+ years. Engineering, forget about it, 20 year folks. Roll the product time line up to RSdC, RSd (the components man, come on!!), Roadster 66, Ryval (the new one... an insane $/watt x quality combination... and where is the carbon bling there? the stupid lights? extra bolt on stuff besides that cheap badass looking badge which acutally glues in anyway? the money went inside)
... getting the picture?
The downhill slide you all so perceptively percieve actually ended quite some time ago. It's echoes are still with the company, obviously.
The point is that by PG's own numbers, the made'n'merica Ti series was the least reliable PG amp built. Yes we have seen our fair share of Xenon issues on the phorum, but that is only anecdotal compared to PG's data. I was moderating the original PG soundoff forum while the Ti line was running, and it certainly had issues as well. Doesn't mean it's bad gear... it's my personal favorite line as well, for purely subjective reasons.
Unfortunatly I have not believed anything that the company has said since they went offshore. Every year they have come out with something that they say is even better then the last series when we all know the truth. Do you really expect them to come out and say that the new stuff that they are making is not as good or tough as the stuff they made a decade ago? Nobody will ever do that, even when they know the truth.
Well, the Xenon line was the most technically advanced line they have built. PG took a beating on them, because of the high grey market availability (without warranties) and first batch cold solder issues. There were a lot of pissed off eBayers, whose new amps would not be fixed for free. Since they buy online, they are also more likely to be vocal on forums. That is IMO the reason why Xenon issues seem so prevalent to us.
And the RSD line was not supposed to be a Xenon level replacement, but Tantrum, so comparing RSD gear against the top of the line PG gear from the past is misguided. We were supposed to get an RSD competition line that was on par with their better gear, but unfortunately we will never get to see it.
But you think PG's own repair statistics are a lie, just because they went overseas with their production? I don't get your reasoning.
For GOOD news......................it got real shitty in here real quik...... I think we all are aware of the issues PG has had as of the last few years but whats the point in beating a dead horse..... I'm disappointed that more people aren't excited about a bigger company with more capital taking the riegns and pumping life back in....and not letting PG just die.
Honestly, it makes me think I should be keeping news like this to myself.
Those tender little burgers with them little, itty-bitty grilled onions that just explode in ya mouth like flavor crystals every time you bite into one.. just makes me want to burn this muthafuka down.... Come on, Pookie, let's burn this muthafuka down!!!
I'm not upset or pissed off either. I prefer diversity rather than everyone towing the same line.
I'm glad the PG name is at least now in the hands of a company that has some proven track record when it comes to marketing products. The Stinger name is well known and from the few install accessories from them that I have seen/played with, I'm definitely not unimpressed.
AAMP probably won't turn PG into what it once was. But that doesn't mean they can't do good things with it.
Edit: Speaking of AAMP, it appears the PG website now lists AAMPs address on the contact pages instead of the old North Decatur address:
I just pray that it doens't slip further down to the point of klicker where they slap "COMP" on the end of everythng and it is available at every fleamarket or van-sale.........
ttocs wrote:I just pray that it doens't slip further down to the point of klicker where they slap "COMP" on the end of everythng and it is available at every fleamarket or van-sale.........
oldskoolmseriesfan wrote:which lines are they vin? m-ms-zpa?
almost correct My preference in this order....MS, white ZX, ZPA, Xenon, then Ms. Other then that, I think I'll buy another brand as I feel that there is a significant drop off <vin runs and hide :D:D:D> I've used every PG amp line (except for that $100k amp) and those are my thoughts and 2 cents.
Sorry to be off topic I would love to see what Stinger can pull out of their pockets to revive pg
At this point, I think we should try to push AAMP by expressing interest in the direction PG goes. Focus on the future..... i.e. Show an open mind to new concepts and ideas. Who knows, maybe it'll be US that saves PG. Think about how many of us frequent other sites related to cars. Personally, I hit 3-4 everyday. If everybody dropped a subtle "I heard PG may have a new line coming out" on all those boards.........Generate some interest on the web and it might trickle to local shops..... It sounds logical doesn't it......or am I just dreaming.........
Those tender little burgers with them little, itty-bitty grilled onions that just explode in ya mouth like flavor crystals every time you bite into one.. just makes me want to burn this muthafuka down.... Come on, Pookie, let's burn this muthafuka down!!!
The only positive thing with Phoenix Gold today and the past few years was this forum period. don't assume that aamp is going to change anything for the positive, after all they are huge offshore, whoever is the cheapest, yada yada yada.
and for who ever previously posted about the offshoring because other companies are, was done because it was a wire/amp manufacturer... ran by hobbyists, not true businessman or a group of businessman that could come together with a real plan to combat the other companies heading overseas like an exodus. imagine the marketing opportunity they had with that... fail!!!
anyways PG is done, this is the last surviving thing from PG and it hey day...
James Shields
[email][email protected][/email]
[url]http://www.northolmstedperformance.com[/url]
jbondox wrote:anyways PG is done, this is the last surviving thing from PG and it hey day...
That doesn't get me too excited. I am just going to be optimistic. And HOPE that we get some cool ass gear. EVEN if it is overseas. Maybe with some power. And I like when you can see the guts of the amp. It looks cool.
Kenwood Excelon x592
x200.4(in process of repair OMFG YES)
rsd65cs front
rsd65cs rear
x1200.1
2 rsdc124
using zx350 until repair of x200.4
see now my theory is that if I don't get my hopes up I will not be as disappointed. The days of the building an amp that looked good enough on the inside to put a plexi window on it are LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG gone........
Yea... plastic is cheaper then plexi. Hahaha Oh well doesn't mean you can't do it yourself. and if the color is ugly then you can always go to mhyde and get that shit PCd to WHATEVER you like, your hair color, pube color, or girls eyes.
Kenwood Excelon x592
x200.4(in process of repair OMFG YES)
rsd65cs front
rsd65cs rear
x1200.1
2 rsdc124
using zx350 until repair of x200.4
jbondox wrote:
anyways PG is done, this is the last surviving thing from PG and it hey day...
Why so negative?
The way I see it, AAMP has an oportuninty to do a full "frame-off" restoration of PG.
Those tender little burgers with them little, itty-bitty grilled onions that just explode in ya mouth like flavor crystals every time you bite into one.. just makes me want to burn this muthafuka down.... Come on, Pookie, let's burn this muthafuka down!!!
Unfortunatly I do not see a large coporation like them ever taking the line back to the high-class persal-service type of company that they use to be and that is what james and I were use to.
It would be like if your favorite country steakhouse started selling burgers. And for a while they made some great bugers that still had the reputation their steaks did. While it was not the steak you were use to, cooked to order and seasoned perfectly it was still an ok burger and the best that you could now get from your favorite steakhouse and it was cheaper as well. But soon people learned that they could now afford a great burger for cheap and started buying them by the dozen. There is no way that steakhouse can keep up the steak-quality burger when they are now throwing them out the drive through to any idiot with a mouth and sooner or later the steakhouse can't even spell steak.
ALL WE WANT IF OUR FUCKIN STEAK AND TO EAT IT TOO.......
jbondox wrote:
anyways PG is done, this is the last surviving thing from PG and it hey day...
Why so negative?
The way I see it, AAMP has an oportuninty to do a full "frame-off" restoration of PG.
how long you been dealing with PG? do you believe what theyare marketing now or in the past few years is better than everyone else out there? because it wasn't. it was the same ol shit everyone else had, off shore crap, with nothing esoteric today like it was in the past. it is like comparing a KIA to a Mercedes SL65 Black Series.
Also i know shit changes with time, it is a given, but it should be for the better not the worse!
you keep holding your breath
James Shields
[email][email protected][/email]
[url]http://www.northolmstedperformance.com[/url]
I've been a PG loyalist since the summer of 1995 when I got my first car...........so a few years.....
Do I think the offshore goods like Xenon and RSd are "better" than the others........Price wise yes cuz ya just can't beat the power of a X1200.1 for $250...... Performance wise....I couldn't really say because I don't use anything else in my cars. But I can say I've liked the JL's, Alpine's(small footprint) and Fosgate's performance aswell. I installed a couple of the slash series into my friends car a few years ago and they've preformed solid.
DON'T GET ME WRONG I know that it won't be like it was back in the day...sad but reality...I think we all have a firm grasp on that fact. But it still doesn't mean that they can't produce a solid product even on a large scale. That's all I'm saying.......
Those tender little burgers with them little, itty-bitty grilled onions that just explode in ya mouth like flavor crystals every time you bite into one.. just makes me want to burn this muthafuka down.... Come on, Pookie, let's burn this muthafuka down!!!
they could....but I think that they had their day in the limelight...but pg as a whole was dying mid way through the tantrum and ti lines....their marketing approach shifted and the started to become more of a corporate company and I think they became to oriented with the sales side. pg was not for the faint of heart back in the day....it was at the top of the game in high end mobile audio and the prices reflected that....but the entire industry changed as more companies began to move...back in the late 80 and early 90 and the actual components needed to build an amp became cheaper and cheaper...
they became consumed with the costs to product ratio....factors that companies that build 2000 amps a year arn't overwhelmed with cause each amp retailed for 1000 and up to several.....so then the onslaught of the titanium line....way way over engineered and way way to much focus on making sheer volume through out the life of the line.....look at all they built but never finished....
Do you know what I am saying....they were on par at one point with companies that had and have the build it and they will come philosophy. Now they have the philosophy that if they build 400000000000 mediocre items and 40% of the average consumers have it in their car they are kosher on the books. They as a company ceased to cater to the discerning audiophile and it started when the started cutting back all the costs to build an few amps in lue of building multitudes.....everything after the ti line....then they split the lines grossly to cater to a more diverse range of consumers. That was that....you can see the downslide historically in what they built as the money shifted farther and farther away from the buyers who in reality bought 1000 dollar amps.
I am not saying that what they make is unreliable....I am not saying that it is all garbage....I am not saying that I don't even like quite a bit of the newer stuff...I do...but does a xenon 1200.1 compare in anyway to an ms2250....it is laughable....and now look at their big class ab 2 channel...the single most desirable and purchased amp buy the audiophile crowd....the ryval...the rsd....it is a joke by comparison and I don't see pg doing anything to pacify folks like us on that front....not now or ever....
I hope I eat my words....but I doubt I will. I hope they prosper and that all the folks here in town don't just get fucked like the last several big "adjustments" that led to the termination of a whole lot of people we here in town know who believed in what the company was doing and gave there all for the jobs they had there....but I expect that pg head quarters will reside on some shit hole of an exploited village some where in signapore's 7th level of hell in another 10 years!!!! Did I mention that I saw ryval in wal mart the other day....cheaper then the sony explode low end and pioneers entry level wal mart stuff....
I agree that we won't see PG turn back into a niche audiophile brand. That niche still exists but the PG that filled that niche is gone. Brands the likes of Audison, Brax, etc. are still in that market and competing. I don't know what their bottom lines are like but I can assume that many boutique brands are still doing decently well enough since many still exist.
PG won't be that kind of brand ever again and it's totally understandable and justifiable that people such as James and ttcos have accepted that fact and have no interest in what the brand is today.
All that said, I still wouldn't mind seeing actual data collected by an experienced amp tech for various lines of PG amps over history to see what are the major measurable output differences between the lines.
? Do you want us to start linking all the broken china made amps that are on here
. I am willing to bet there are alot more of those and we all know they are not worth the time to fix
.... I will not buy any car audio that is disposable, even if it has a PG label on it. I would rather buy his broken Ti then anything from them in the last 10 yrs. That broken amp is worth more then some of their new stuff out of the box and that is no shit mang.
I think we all are aware of the issues PG has had as of the last few years but whats the point in beating a dead horse..... I'm disappointed that more people aren't excited about a bigger company with more capital taking the riegns and pumping life back in....and not letting PG just die. 
:hf::pl:
My preference in this order....MS, white ZX, ZPA, Xenon, then Ms. Other then that, I think I'll buy another brand as I feel that there is a significant drop off <vin runs and hide 
:D:D:D> I've used every PG amp line (except for that $100k amp) and those are my thoughts and 2 cents. 
