Sundown Subs vs. Phoenix Gold Subs

[Kirghiz]

The thread title is how my day began anyway......

Back when I was researching subs for my install, there were very few subs that met my depth/power/enclosure requirements. Sundown has a couple different subs that would work, but the Ti2's did too. I bought the Ti2's before listening to the Sundowns, and if you believe everything you read on the web you come away thinking that they'll take three times rated power, sound perfect on all kinds of music, and shoot rainbows. So, I had the day off today and decided to look up the lone Sundown dealer in my state and go by their shop for a listen. It was a nice day for a drive, and either I'd come away with better subs or set my mind at ease.

Bear in mind that this is the ONLY Sundown dealer in my state, and I got the address from Sundown's website.

So, I arrived at "Car Audio, Tires, Exhaust, Brakes, Tanning, and Video" (Not the name of the establishment, just what they seemingly did). I found what appeared to be a broken sound board with a few pioneer HU's in it, that was half buried by tires, junk, and empty speaker enclosures. Aside from a handful of Pioneer amps that were in boxes in a showcase under the cash register, seemingly everything to do with car audio was thrust into the corner near the sound board, like that was car audio's place in the automotive service department store. I was getting ready to leave, but ran into a guy that worked there, so I asked about Sundown subs. He referred me to "Their Stereo Guy", meaning "one", "only", "singular", who was outside in the parking lot putting a radio in a van (because all top notch installers work in parking lots). He emerged from the van and greeted me. Perhaps he was old enough to drink, perhaps not. I asked if there was any way I could hear some Sundown subs. He thought for a good 30 seconds, and then said I could hear the pair of SD-12's in his truck. (Yes, it took 30 seconds for it to occur to him that he had some in his own vehicle). I said "Great, thanks! The SD's are what I was looking at." and we headed over to his truck.

Naturally the first thing he does is open the back doors and raise the seat revealing a rhino lined down firing pro box and a 10x12 entry level Pioneer amp. I'm not picking on the gear in his personal vehicle. We all started somewhere. But, he goes on to say that he has a pair of SD-12s sealed running off a 2400 watt amp. My first thought was "I know a professional installer didn't just quote the max power of his amp.", and I say "I had no idea those subs could take that kind of power", knowing that his amp is no more than 700 or 800 watts rms at best, but probably less. He said some gibberish about it being 1 ohm stable (No entry level Pioneer amp is 1 ohm stable, and his had the same finish as the ones you find at Wal-Mart, Target, Walgreens and other purveyors of fine car audio equipment everywhere), but I let it go and got in.

I can firmly say from this experience that Sundown makes extraordinarily durable subs. After getting into the truck he said "Let me turn them on, I don't listen to them that much" and reached back between the seats to turn his bass dial all the way up. I know this because I could physically see him try and turn it, and it wouldn't go anymore. He then opens up the subwoofer control on his DD HU and, I can't make this up, dials it up to +10. Based on how it sounded on the first track he played, an AC/DC song, I can't blame him for not listening to them much. He said "pick a song that you listen to." He was using internet on his ipod to pull songs from YouTube as his source, so I could pick anything. I picked "Under and Over It" by Five Finger Death Punch. The driving kick drums at the beginning followed by the rolling double bass drum through the middle would tell me all I wanted to know about these subs. Before he started it though I got him to turn the sub level back to +0 to give as fair of a shake to the subs as possible. The driving beats at the beginning lacked firmness. It was loud, don't get me wrong, but the SQ was poor. Then when the double bass part started it was just one long roar with absolutely no separation between the beats whatsoever. I was amazed at just how bad it sounded. He then put on some Lil Wayne song to show what they did on hip hop, and that admittedly sounded better, but by no means was it good. He said his mids were just factory door speakers running off the radio, and that was why it wasn't balanced. The EQ on his HU looked like a set of stairs, or the signal bars on a cell phone the way it was set up, with the highs at the max setting. Not judging the kid's set up, but I'd heard enough.

I explained to him that my reason for checking the subs out was that I have always wondered if Sundown subs were better than what I have, and now I know what I'm missing. He then asked to see mine, so I obliged. He'd never heard of Phoenix Gold (He's young, give him a break), and I raised my seat, exposing the four Ti2's and Elite amps, and explained the power as 2800 watts on the subs. (On his planet the Elite.1 makes like 6,000 watts at 2 ohm, but I didn't go there.) As he was getting in I mentioned to watch his feet on the kick panels, which I do for everyone getting in my truck for the first time. He had this exasperated look on his face. At first I thought I'd offended him by cautioning him about the kicks, and then he goes "Where'd you get them at!?", like he'd never seen kick panels before. Keep in mind that this is the only installer of Sundown products in my state. I started out by showing him what "Under and Over It" should sound like, and then played a Spag Heddy dubstep track which brought his boss outside yelling that things were falling off the wall inside the shop. Not making this up. I don't believe my system can do that, but the guy did come out yelling. At the end of this he pretty much admitted what I had already decided. I should stick with what I've got.

Honestly though, I really don't use today's experience as much of a gauge of how Sundown's products perform, because this guy obviously has no idea what he's doing any more than any other 20 year old does. I am fairly convinced that the Ti2 subs are better by some amount, though not as much as they were based on today's listening. I just found it, I'm not sure if the word is "hilarious" or "sad" that this guy was a professional installer, Sundown's lone representative in my state, and thought some of you would find the experience amusing.

[spragmatic]

Good read!

[dbjury]

Cheers for the write up. Was amusing.

[PhuckinGood]

Funny , thanks for posting that...

[joerg]

Great story!

[dwnrodeo]

I can't comment on the Sundown vs. the Ti2 subs, but I have heard a Sundown 12" (not sure which model unfortunately) and my PG RsdC 12" in properly built enclosures and amp checked for clipping with an O-scope and I prefer the RsdC myself. Not saying the Sundown was bad, I actually preferred it to my SSA DCON 12", but the RsdC just sounded "tighter" to me and had more impact. From what Morgan has said about the Ti2 being an evolution of the RsdC, I would think you would have a hard time finding a better sub for the money.

[Kirghiz]

From what Morgan has said about the Ti2 being an evolution of the RsdC, I would think you would have a hard time finding a better sub for the money.

That's kind of where I was at after doing my research. The only ones that could compete in my mind, at least on paper (were in the ballpark of 6" or less mounting depth, and could run sealed), were the Sundown SA and SD series subs, which is why I drove to see my friend here and see what they sounded like. I would have went with Elite's, but the 7.25" mounting depth was a deal breaker in my install.

[LowandLoud]

Good story. I just love going places and knowing more about the products that the "professionals".

I had a similar experience when my old Mazda B2200 (on hydraulics) needed a new rear cylinder. I had the juice done in NY state and didnt want to drive all that way for a cylinder. I went to my local industrial hydraulic specialst. After all, it is EXACTLY the same principal and components. The guy behind the counter couldnt comprehend what i was trying to explain to him. So i said, "come outside, i'll show you". When i lifted the tonneau cover and exposed the rack with 6 batteries, 2 chrome pumps and all the solenoids, coilovers and also 3 chrome QX series amps, he was dumbfounded. He had never seen or heard of anything like that. Hard to believe for a guy who works with hydraulics every day. We stood there, me explaining how it works, him looking in awe, for about 20 minutes. In the end, I went away without a solution and had to order a cylinder elsewhere.

LL

[Kirghiz]

I just love going places and knowing more about the products that the "professionals".

Doing that is one thing, and that happens sometimes. But in your case, the guy you were talking about knew about hydraulics, if not your hydraulic system. The guy I was talking to is a professional car audio installer (apparently), who quoted max power instead of rms power, jacked up his bass dial to max AND his head unit subwoofer control to max, and proceeded to jack the bass up as loud as he could. I was literally floored. Had I had a chance to look at his amp, I would imagine that the gain was wide open too. I have never in my life seen someone do that, even when humoring some 17 year old kid in a grocery store parking lot that thinks he has something.

It can be said that anyone that would even do those things knows zero about car audio. I'd sooner go to Jiffy Lube to have my audio system installed than let that guy do it.

[vladthebad]

Ive gone to car shows just to look, and ended up helping with stereos put together by so called high end shops as well. The look on their face when a couple thousand in gear suddenly sounds GOOD is worth it. I've seen "8 gauge" power wire on big amps that MIGHT be worthy of calling 10 gauge if you had bad eyesight.. In one case, I had a chunk of cheap CCA 4 gauge power wire, that was more like 6 gauge, wrapped it in electrical tape quick and replaced a ground wire on an old big PPI power class (350x2?) and easily gained 10+ db of listenable volume before the subs went flat. How on earth some of the installers call themselves professionals when they're willing to use absolute garbage wire or 8 feet of extra power/ground wire just laying there, ill never understand.

[Kirghiz]

To be fair though, the owner of the company that did my install was trying to sell me on why I need 1/0 power wire before I stopped him saying I knew that, and went on to tell him I wanted a big 3 upgrade, system battery, and inquired whether my alternator would be good, or needed to upgrade that. He wasn't used to that. He was absolutely floored when I told him to just do what he thought was needed on sound deadening.

Installers that know how to do it right typically have to sell customers on doing the install right, and try to get them not to blow their budget on components. The average customer is ignorant to the value of good wire, distros, and cables, say nothing for deadening.

Sometimes using the wrong wire and such falls on the customers tying the installer's hands by not wanting to pay the money for the wire and such. If I were in that position as an installer, I would totally do the bare minimum that wouldn't be a fire hazard and give the customer what he wants before I'd let him walk out the door. I wouldn't be proud of the install, but I wouldn't lose the sale either. Sometimes the installers have tough choices to make.

[Kirghiz]

I can firmly say from this experience that Sundown makes extraordinarily durable subs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhkM4VZOfxk

At the 2:32 mark they hook an SA-8 to the wall socket, and it lasts a good 45 seconds.

[LowandLoud]

I dont even know what to say about that.

LL

[freshkryp69]

Sundown is a great company! Best customer service out of any car audio company. There big sub amps are the shit to! Im sure what you heard was a sub that needed a better box designed for the vehicle it was in...but they are known as a big bass brand soo maybe one day they will make a sq sub??