So, I started on the Jetta

Post by **Jacampb2** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:33 pm

My wife and I ended up buying a new SUV for the family vehicle, so I am selling my old pickup and I inherited her '01 VW Jetta 1.8T GLS. Sadly I never got the dual stroker box into the pickup because my back got jacked up, and now it is to late...

The plan for the Jetta is either 3 Stroker 12's or 2 RSDc 12's. I am leaning toward the RSDc's, maybe finding a third one and running 3 RSDCs... Boston Pro 6.5's up front, Boston Ralley 6.5's for rear fill, and I'm thinking about building some small dash pods for a pair of ZP 5.25's...

Anyhow, I started on sound dampening today. I think it came out very well. Some of you may have heard of this stuff before, but maybe not. I have heard good things, the best of all being it is dirt cheap.

Anyhow, you're going to laugh at me, but my sound dampening material is from Home Depot, a product called quick roof. It is an asphalt based, aluminum backed roof repair material. After doing a bit of research, it seems that it is remarkably similar to most deadeners out there. The whole idea is to add mass to the panels to reduce vibration. This stuff meets that criteria, among others. It has extremely strong adhesive, it sticks better than the last batch of dynamat original I had. It measures in at about .05" thick, about .02" thinner than dynamat. It weighs in at ~ 2/3rd the weight of dynamat, but for the cost, you could afford to do two layers and that would put you at more mass than dynamat extreme. The price is $16.45 for 12.5 ft^2. It is only 6" wide but that isn't so bad, it makes it a bit easier to work with.

Provided it holds up okay, I will write a review on it. All in all I know it works, you can easily hear the difference when tapping a un-covered panel and a covered one. In all honesty, it was this or nothing for my case, as I was not going to spring the big bucks for a name brand mat.

Here are the pics so far:

Later,
Jason

knightrider358 · Post by **knightrider358** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:38 pm

Hey man if that stuff does really well for ur app then Ill go buy some also and finish the rest of area's and use it for a second layer in my truck. Man I wish I had ur brains and hands. Thanx again and Im looking forward to ur review

Also job looks great so far can't wait to see the rest MORE PICS! MORE PICS! LOL

Post by **Jacampb2** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:45 pm

knightrider358 wrote:Hey man if that stuff does really well for ur app then Ill go buy some also and finish the rest of area's and use it for a second layer in my truck. Man I wish I had ur brains and hands. Thanx again and Im looking forward to ur review Also job looks great so far can't wait to see the rest MORE PICS! MORE PICS! LOL

These are all the pics so far. Tomorrow I will be doing the trunk lid and hopefully starting on a box. Like I said above, I know the stuff works, but I am a bit concerned about how well it is going to hold onto the trunk lid. It sticks like a mother, so it should be fine, I'll let you know tomorrow.

Later,
Jason

knightrider358 · Post by **knightrider358** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:52 pm

Looking forward to it man. Also FYI my names Jason also. Go figure.....

Misfire · Post by **Misfire** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:05 pm

I'm really interested too. Running on a real tight budget now that I had to help out my wife's grandparents. Looking forward to your review. Great start by the way!

gridracer · Post by **gridracer** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:07 pm

That quick roof stuff is well used for dampening around here also look for peel'n'seal same kinda stuff

bogart · Post by **bogart** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:52 pm

I am going to look at it at home depot in the morning....I love the cost part....100 buck would do an entire trunk and lid

tonym · Post by **tonym** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:19 pm

Im sure you can find it online cheaper somewhere.... Hope it works out as i will try it to

Post by **Jacampb2** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:28 pm

bogart wrote:I am going to look at it at home depot in the morning....I love the cost part....100 buck would do an entire trunk and lid

I bought two rolls, so far just over one roll and I have the entire floor done. I seriously doubt that the trunk lid will take the rest of the remaining roll. So yeah, $37 dollars so far-- I doubt it will cost more than $150 or so to do the whole damned car.

I believe snow and ice shield may make a good product as well if you want a big sheet. That stuff is like 3' wide and ~70' roll, about $60, but I don't remember how thick it is. **edit** I looked it up, and it looks to be about the same weight per square foot, but it is fiberglass reinforced and may not "lay down" as well as the other stuff. The quick roof manufacturer also sells the stuff in much larger rolls, getting cheaper the more you buy...

Later,
Jason

Misfire · Post by **Misfire** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:49 pm

Love the info here!! Great find Jason!

Post by **ttocs** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:34 pm

you guys will want to be carefull mounting that stuff on any pieces on the sides or top of the vehicle. IT has a tendency to melt a little bit when it heats up since it really isn't made to handle the heat a cars interior in the summer. On floors and such it is fine as it has nowhere to go but on places where gravity is not going to work with it, it will eventually work aginst it. The last time I saw any longtime pics of a home-depot sound damping experiment it showed the thick black asphalt dripping out from behind panels and onto the carpet and such. It was a mess......

I am not for sure on the brand but I have learned that in car audio you generally get what you pay for.

Post by **Jacampb2** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:35 am

ttocs wrote:you guys will want to be carefull mounting that stuff on any pieces on the sides or top of the vehicle. IT has a tendency to melt a little bit when it heats up since it really isn't made to handle the heat a cars interior in the summer. On floors and such it is fine as it has nowhere to go but on places where gravity is not going to work with it, it will eventually work aginst it. The last time I saw any longtime pics of a home-depot sound damping experiment it showed the thick black asphalt dripping out from behind panels and onto the carpet and such. It was a mess......

I am not for sure on the brand but I have learned that in car audio you generally get what you pay for.

The Quick Roof MSDS I looked up lists the melting point at >200° F. Dynamat lists their product as being able to withstand up to 350° F. Since the quick roof just defines a minimum upper temperature, this typically means the manufacturer saw no need to test with it at higher temps. Yesterday I was using a 1200W heat gun directly on the material and it did not flow. On low my heat gun does 750° F. I could get it somewhat liquid, but it was still more rubber than tar.

It is tough to find out what exactly dynamat is made from. They are kind of nebulous on this info, and likely for good reason. They list is at a styrene-butadiene compound, this could include anything from polymerized asphalt to a full blown synthetic rubber. Imperical evidence suggests that it is asphalt based, just based on it's texture and smell when hot. The quick roof is also a polymerized asphalt compound. Trust me when I tell you I did my homework.

I have seen this stuff used a lot, but only rarely specifically as sound deadining. I was introduced to it on the 4x4 boards I frequent, and they are mostly using it for heat shielding. I have not seen one account of it melting and flowing out. Is it possible that the results in question were not a rubberized undercoating or something similar?

As for getting what you payed for. Well, there is normally some truth in that, but not always. Just look at the recent online prices for most of the newer PG stuff. They are dirt cheap, but all of us would say we are getting a great deal, not cheap junk... You can buy a new RSDC amp for under $200, or you can buy a replacement "bose" or "monsoon" amp for your factory installed audio at the dealer for more than $1000-- do you always get what you pay for?

Later,
Jason

Post by **ttocs** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:47 am

they don't test above 200 degrees because they know that the max a shingled roof in phoenix will get in july. Now take a black car out in that same weather and I have seen it get hot enough to melt garage door openers that were on the visor by the roof, waay over 200 degrees...

Take your heat gun to a piece of the material for more then a few seconds, maybe even a min or more and see what happens. I really wouldn't recomend putting it on anything but the floor since that is the intended use of this material. IT is not made to go on anthing but a flat horozontal surface and not made to hold its weight up. IT says right on the package that "it lasts for for years" when used as it is intended so I would expect this patch to last for maybe 5 yrs max? If it lasted for decades they would say that, year leads me to believe that 5 might be a long time. Now if you start putting it on verticle metal surfaces I would not be surpised if it cuts its lifespan in half.

I am trying to come up with some links to show example of what can happen to show you guys so you will hopefully take it seriously. I know we all want to save a buck but all I can say is I wouldn't want that stuff in my car or any car I work on as it is just not made to last for more then years, I build my systems to last for a decade or it just ends up back with problems.

Post by **Jacampb2** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:32 pm

Well, I did some unscientific testing this evening. Heat gun on low (750°), ~2"s from the material, quick roof on a vertical surface, and it went your ten minutes w/o a sweat. It sagged maybe 1/8". It was far to hot to touch (I figured that out the hard way--lol) , so I went to get my IR thermometer. It had already cooled back down by the time I got back to the shop.

So, I went at it with the gun on high (1000°) from about 2"s again. It took two to three minutes but it started to flow. I measured the surface temp when it started to let go and it was 416° F. So, do you have a chunk of dynamat around? if so, do the same testing and post those results. I am not the least bit worried about this crap ending up on my carpet, if my car ever hits 400°+ F in Michigan, then it's on fire and I have bigger things to worry about.

Anyhow, even if you are scared to put it on vertical or overhead surfaces, it will still save you a bunch of money on the floor...

Here's a pic of it after it started to flow:

Later,
Jason

Post by **Jacampb2** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:34 pm

Oh, and that white finger shaped patch in the picture is skin from my index finger, like a dumb ass I touched it after the first round to see how hot it was and burned myself a good one.

Post by **ttocs** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:48 pm

I asked a damping expert his opinion on the roofing material and what the differences are. He brought up a number of points that I had never considered and would love to explain if I understood them including health risks(honestly). If I were to repeat them it would all be 2nd hand info and since you don't believe my first hand opinions these would be worthless huh?

Would you be open to hearing these points from the expert himself? I have met him and at the time I did his hands were dirty from mixing materials just before I arrived. I am not going to introduce him how ever as an unbiased source, nor would he try to act like one as he is the owner of second skin. I am willing to bet he would be happy to ship you some samples of both his stuff and his competitors to compair to yours and make an unbiased opinoin of your own. He has done extensive testing in this area where few have and knows what he is talking about.

its up to you, he said he is willing to put in his .02 but has already told me the outcome that would likely happen but I would not ignor what he said even if you don't buy his stuff.......

Post by **Jacampb2** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:43 pm

Look dude, I am not bagging on you. I was doing what you asked. As for your opinion, well, it is just that, and until you have some first hand experience with it, then that is all it is. I am not denying that there are better options but they all cost much more.

As for hazards, would you like to see the MSDS for the product? It has a health hazard rating of 1, on a scale of 0-4, Asphalt fumes are listed as a possible carcinogen, but then, so are 100 other things you come into contact with in a day.

Anyhow, this is what I am using, like I said above, it is this or nothing in my case. I don't intend to do the roof of the car, but I will do the trunk lid, and some vertical surfaces. If it turns out to be a terrific failure, I'll let you know. I am not afraid to say it doesn't work, but I am also not afraid to give it a shot either.

Later,
Jason

Post by **Jacampb2** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:43 pm

For my progress today, well, not much. I got the 0g ran and that was enough. We were having rain showers off and on, so I didn't want to get to involved with more sound deadening. The power run turned out to be a big job in this car. I am used to popping seats and trim to run wire, but this sucker fits tighter together than a puckered asshole. To start with, in order to get the trim off the side of the car I had to start at the rear deck cover, move into the trunk, and then work forward on the trim, ending with pulling the underside of the dash to get it all loose. The seats came out with very little hassle, so I thought it was going to be an easy job-- I was wrong. It was better than 5 hours to pull power wire, and I may redo the front section, as I am not happy with the way the carpet fits in the foot well now. No pics, as it is just a red snake laying in the trunk, but I will get some more as I go along...

Later,
Jason

Post by **ttocs** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:51 pm

just tryin to help you and the other members of the forum save time and trouble. best of luck, I will refrain from troubling you in the future.

bogart · Post by **bogart** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:47 am

despite the contention...this is interesting. I have I believe a few scraps of both the original dynamat and the extreme floating round here somewhere...I may well take a few chunks and do some testing on my own on all three to see whats what. I for one feel that regular dynomat sucks ass...doesn't stick for shit and likes to crack on bends with or without heat gun application. be interesting to see how the dyno stacks up against some of the cheaper stuff out there. I've also had it melt...not a great deal but with hot components on it it melted enough leave marks through the carpet....

Post by **Jacampb2** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:47 pm

Okay, here are the pictures so far today. It started to look like rain again, so I packed it up for a while and am taking a break. The first few are just to show how damned far I had to go to get trim out. Even if you just wanted to pull the door sill, the deck, and dash trim has to come off first as the sill interlocks under the very front dash/a pillar piece, and the very rear b pillar piece which also interlocks under the damned deck cover... Anyhow, I got my RCA's ran, got the 12G ran, remote ran, and I forgot to run the damned bass cube remote wire... Maybe I should start working on a wireless version

Does anyone have any input on what sub combination I should run? It looks like I can easily fit three CV strokers, and even if I swap them out for RSDc's later, the ported box specs are quite similar. I would probably build the box to RSDc specs and just run the strokers 'till I find a 3rd RSDc 12 for a good price...

Here are the pics:

The Eclipse 7200MkII is in, subtle difference from factory, but I swapped the din pocket for the HU hole, I hated how low the HU was in the dash. This means I loose my fancy sliding cup holders, but they were garbage anyhow. I am going to glass a cup holder into the factory console, or else buy a '04 console which has the cup holders in it...

Later,
Jason

knightrider358 · Post by **knightrider358** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:28 pm

Lookin great Jason

Keep up with the updates and pics man!!! PS I still appreciate ur input and thoughts on the roofing stuff!!

Irongoats · Post by **Irongoats** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:32 am

Interesting thread to say the least, looking forward to see how this comes out and the sound proof your using.

Post by **Jacampb2** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:58 am

I started on the box. This is as far as I have gotten, and I ran out of MDF. I don't really fell like cleaning out the denali to go get more-- it sucks not having a truck anymore. I am waiting to see if a buddy wants to run to home creepo with me, otherwise I have to go get the damn trailer for a sheet of wood... As you can see, I recycled the lid to the p/u stroker box, that is the side that will face into the cabin, so the black hammered pain should help finish off the small recess behind the seat well.

Oh, and I decided on the three strokers for now. I will find another RSDc for later.

Here are the pics:

Later,
Jason

davewaibel · Post by **davewaibel** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:03 am

I should be quiet about this, but feel compelled to jump into the shit storm---ttoc I think your taking things a little personally- the majority of your posts come from the side of 'you guys are doing everything wrong'- if that hurts your feelings then I am sorry- but most of us have a limited amount of time and money to spend on our hobby- a no matter what most of us do, it seems to not be good enough for you- its a fine line we walk on the web- most things are perceived negatively- my system gathered more than its share of negative shit, and I took most of it- but personally I don't really care about someone's opinion about something they havent heard. Iasca, and Usac have pretty much disappeared, and the 2 channel purists out there are getting their asses handed to them by every flashing bauble out there with a video screen and sq that is absolute dog shit- go into 99% of the shops out there and ask for their best SQ deck- you will be pointed to an Imprint Alpine deck, or a pioneer deck that they don't stock-arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhh. Their are a few shops in the NW that good audio can be had- one in portland, (500000 people), one in bend (35000), one in salem (50000), wow 3 out of 24 shops- in the guys defense his is trying to keep his vehicle from ringing with out spending 1200 on Dynamat-now aday that about 700 more than most people spend on their complete system- ahhhhhhhhhhhhh- I guess I am done ranting, sorry that its directed at you (ttoc), but most things need to be in perspective, if everything needed to be perfect, no one would ever get their systems done, or would have 20k wrapped up into a 5k car.