1990 Subaru Loyale Wagon Install!

[eulogious]

why do you say the tantrum doesn't need air directly on top of it? Almost ALL amplifiers need air directly on top of them and this one is not any different.

Because there is no fan ontop Of course it needs airflow, just the source doesn't need to be on top on like the ti. If you didn't notice the fan on the side in this pic:



So if you would have saw that, you would immediately be able to see that there IS airflow over the top of the amp because there is a fan there especially once I put the piece of wood back on top like I had before. The wood directs the air around and back out the other side.

Did you think that that fan didn't blow air over the top of the amp? What, you thought it went beneath it? Really? I am also not an idiot if you haven't noticed.

I don't mind if you ask me question to make me think, but when you make comments like this that make me go back and explain simple physics and air flow, I get a little annoyed by it. After all I have talked about in this post and described why I moved my amps around so much and everything else one would think that I MIGHT have an idea of what needs to happen.

So seriously if all you are going to do is keep making me repeat myself and answer questions that I have already answered, please do not post in here. I get annoyed at repeating myself like I said the last time this happened. I don't want to be an ass, but you are really not helping me out any and just wasting my time. So unless you have something constructive to say about my install, please don't comment. I hate to be like this, but I can't stand repeating myself and answering stupid questions that really don't need to be answered because they have been answered before...

What do you all think about using the grill instead of plexy?

i like it dude.

Ya, it looks sweet. I hope it will work!

[Rold Gold]

why do you say the tantrum doesn't need air directly on top of it? Almost ALL amplifiers need air directly on top of them and this one is not any different.

Dood.........
Why are ya beatin him up ttocs???? I'm sure he has the basic's down pretty well. I've seen the install with my own eyes and the fan setup he's running is sufficient for now with the cover on. Both fans are out of big servers IIRC and move some air so cooling isn't a problem. Having run plenty of the Tantrum amps, the 600.4 doesn't really get hot running at 4ohms... The Ti might generate abit of heat on sub duty but between the fan inside and the 2 out he has plenty IMO.

Donny, do yer do.... If ya happen to go thermal and 1 cuts off, then look into it..... Yer idea of the temp controled fans is spot on and pretty cool really as I don't see anybody else here running anything like that...... For stealth installs where amps have trouble cooling, this idea is golden.

[eulogious]

Dood.........
Why are ya beatin him up ttocs???? I'm sure he has the basic's down pretty well. I've seen the install with my own eyes and the fan setup he's running is sufficient for now with the cover on. Both fans are out of big servers IIRC and move some air so cooling isn't a problem. Having run plenty of the Tantrum amps, the 600.4 doesn't really get hot running at 4ohms... The Ti might generate abit of heat on sub duty but between the fan inside and the 2 out he has plenty IMO.

Donny, do yer do.... If ya happen to go thermal and 1 cuts off, then look into it..... Yer idea of the temp controled fans is spot on and pretty cool really as I don't see anybody else here running anything like that...... For stealth installs where amps have trouble cooling, this idea is golden.

I don't have two fans running in it right now, just the big one. It is a server grade fan that MOVES air for sure, so the tantrum has plenty of air over it.

I think that I am going to move the fan controller up on my priority list. It seems like a sweet mod, and then I will be able to tell how out it's actually getting by listening for the fan. If it works out, I might throw up the diagrams, and I will take lots of pics so if someone else wants to do it they can. The least I can do is give back a little

I wanted to try the ti without any fan assistance to see how it did, so that's why I removed the second fan. I also have had this tantrum amp since about 2003, so I am pretty sure I am aware of what it is capable of as well. Have blown it and raised it from the dead and I don't plan on doing that again. So far so good

If I start messing with the ti's airflow things might get a bit complicated, so I always apply the KISS (keep it simple stupid) to things, and only 1 fan is alot more simple than two. If I do get it to hit thermal, it seems like I would be pushing it HARD to do that, and that is not my intention, and I will look into ASAP. But I really don't see that happening. The ti hasn't even gotten hot, either has the tantrum. I just got back from a 2 hour drive listening to it pretty loud, and neither amps were hot, so I think I am good.

Thanks H for confirming everything looks good

[ttocs]

My tantrum amp doesn't need airflow directly above it like my ti, so having a solid piece of wood over actually helps because it directs the air over the amp, instead of up and out.

your words not mine man and it sounded completely wrong. Putting a piece of wood on top of the amp will help to cool it, sure . An amp not needing airflow across it?!

When I ask a simple question like that it is just to see if you have some bad info that you are working with that could hurt your gear. It was not a shot at your inteligence, install skills or anything else. I asked it just to help you and I can promise that you do not want me or the others here to get critical of this install, and I can promise you that I have not been if you think otherwise...

I will keep my questions to myself to keep from upsetting you in the future.

[eulogious]

your words not mine man and it sounded completely wrong. Putting a piece of wood on top of the amp will help to cool it, sure . An amp not needing airflow across it?!

When I ask a simple question like that it is just to see if you have some bad info that you are working with that could hurt your gear. It was not a shot at your inteligence, install skills or anything else. I asked it just to help you and I can promise that you do not want me or the others here to get critical of this install, and I can promise you that I have not been if you think otherwise...

I will keep my questions to myself to keep from upsetting you in the future.

*sigh*

Why you gotta be like this man? Seriously? If all you were really trying to do was be nice and a devil's advocate, you SUCK BALLS at it dood! You come across as a complete arrogant asshole. That's not helping anyone out man, so if that's your way of helping me out, I will take a pass at your help.

I really don't like to be an ass back to people, but you really leave me no choice *sigh*

Let me start with the qoute of mine that you seem to think proves your point, and I will go ahead and bold the first statement and explain to you what a comparison is, since you obviously missed it and failed second grade when they explained what it is, which says it all and proves what I said in my previous post.

My tantrum amp doesn't need airflow directly above it like my ti, so having a solid piece of wood over actually helps because it directs the air over the amp, instead of up and out.

From Answers.com "The act of comparing or the process of being compared."

So I was COMPARING my ti to my tantrum you tool. It's also called context. Proper context means everything, and anybody who actually learn anything from social interactions and proper communication know this. Obviously you didn't learn it.

Putting a piece of wood on top of the amp will help to cool it, sure . An amp not needing airflow across it?!

Second, if you understood airflow and physics, you would understand that you can direct air like water, and that controling the air means more cooling. But it looks like you didn't do do well in high school physics, go figure Way to make yourself look like a tool yet again. Oh and did you miss my post about the fans being there? You must of, because I really don't understand why you think I said my amp didn't need air flow across it. I mean there is a fan there, with pics to prove it, so only a tool shed would miss that. That's right, that's you! So you must have missed it. So just for future reference, THERE IS A FUCKING FAN THERE YOU IDIOT!!!!

Third, you then basically insult my install by saying that you are being "nice" by not commenting on it. Uh, I really don't give a shit if it's not perfect, I DON'T DO THIS FOR A LIVING. Get critical with it mister high and mighty, I really don't give a fuck what you think at this point. Everyone else has said nothing but good things, except for you. So quite frankly if it doesn't meet your standards, good! Your standards are subpar by my book, so that's great it doesn't pass your "critique". It must mean I am doing something right. Anyone like you ttocs who doesn't understand airflow shouldn't be touching stereo equipment, let alone installing in in tight spaces.

I fucking hate to be like this, but you seriously left me no choice. You could have just not said anything and been nice that way but you had to be an ass. I will be ignoring any post by you from now on, so don't be looking for a reply to anything you say here.

I think the old saying is, you can't fix stupid

Seriously, what's up with all the scotts on this board being douche waffles? Weird…

Back on to topic…

I am off to build my box soon. I got all my wood cut up yesterday with the help of my buddy, so things are looking good!

[waynehead]

believe it or not scott was trying to help lol. He just does it in a special way. He is a very talented and knowledgeable installer. If it was me i would honestly fasten some brackets in the inside walls and float a piece of wood over it. I believe in keeping it simple, but I like to overkill the simple. ttocs didnt mean any harm, thats just him. Afterall, he is in a race for the phorum asshole award. Lets play nice

[eulogious]

believe it or not scott was trying to help lol. He just does it in a special way. He is a very talented and knowledgeable installer. If it was me i would honestly fasten some brackets in the inside walls and float a piece of wood over it. I believe in keeping it simple, but I like to overkill the simple. ttocs didnt mean any harm, thats just him. Afterall, he is in a race for the phorum asshole award. Lets play nice

I don't mind it when people are "asses", but when I call you out on it and your response is to insult me? That's when I get a little pissy I will admit. The internet is full of interesting people and personalities which is all fine and dandy, but when you insult me after I have asked you nicely at least twice to not say anything unless it's constructive, sorry but homie don't play that

A saying I came up with a long time ago is, "Don't mistake my kindness for a weakness", and that applies here for sure I will only play with kids glove until I get kicked in the junk, then off come the gloves…

I play nice with others, I promise!!

[ttocs]

As I said above, I have not been critical of this install and you would not like me too be. You will also notice that I have not called you any names during this but someone has to be the bigger man...

Good luck with your install, can't wait to see the rest of it but I will keep my questions to myself as I didn't realize you were so sensative. Maybe next time put something in the title that you are not taking questions so we will not hurt your feelings again....

[eulogious]

As I said above, I have not been critical of this install and you would not like me too be. You will also notice that I have not called you any names during this but someone has to be the bigger man...

Good luck with your install, can't wait to see the rest of it but I will keep my questions to myself as I didn't realize you were so sensative. Maybe next time put something in the title that you are not taking questions so we will not hurt your feelings again....

Dood, you can ask question, but don't be an ass about it! If your intention was to not insult me, then I apologize for what I said above, but it seemed like that was what you were doing, and that is what set me off. This is the one thing I really hate about the internet and forums, true intentions never really come across

I really don't want to burn any bridges, ttocs. With you or anybody on here. You really do seem like a smart guy from what I have seen you install and from some of your other posts. It just seems like you have something against me for some reason. Maybe I am just reading you completely wrong, IDK. Maybe I have sand in my vagina, IDK I am really not sensitive at all, trust me. Nor am I going to get hurt when people ask me questions nicely, offer constructive criticism, read my entire posts, and just not generally be an asshole. If you would have done that, I wouldn't have gone off like I did.

If I have have read you wrong, please let me know… I really don't like making enemies But I also won't standby and let someone insult me, which was what I thought you were doing.

[ttocs]

I have had nothing aginst ya until you started throwing names around

My posts are short and to the point. I am not going to take any extra time to fluff them up and stop to think about if it will hurt someones feelings as it seems no matter what you do, that will happen. Not sure if you misunderstood that or because I didn't want to see yer wood but I thought everthing was fine until a little while a ago.

[eulogious]

I have had nothing aginst ya until you started throwing names around

My posts are short and to the point. I am not going to take any extra time to fluff them up and stop to think about if it will hurt someones feelings as it seems no matter what you do, that will happen. Not sure if you misunderstood that or because I didn't want to see yer wood but I thought everthing was fine until a little while a ago.

Ok, then lets call this a misunderstanding. I didn't throw names around until I thought you did, and I think this is where the communication broke down...

I will apologize for my above comments, and I will keep in mind what you have just told me when I read your posts I really do want all the info/tips/questions/critiques I can get, whether it be good or bad. I am new to this, and any tips to make it look/sound better I do appreciate! I am trying to do this nicely to gain experience for my other install I want to do, my MR2. So someone with experience is always good to have lookin' over your shit and pointing things out, the good and the bad

Start over from square one and try to forget all the bad vibes?

I promise next time you see my wood, it will be in box form I won't be flashing that stuff around no more!

[eulogious]

Got the box screwed and glued together!









With the help of my stepdad, we managed to get the box together. The box fit together perfectly as well. I accidentally snap the drill bit for the counter sink in the hole while drilling, so that was a pain to figure out:? But we managed to work it out. The glue also got running while trying to find a new bit, but whatever. I test fit it in my car as well, and it fits perfectly! This is by far the best box I have built. The cuts were great and straight and right on the money. It nice to finely have it all workout nicely, instead of the home depot monkeys cutting stuff an eight to a quarter inch off in places Much better to just do it yourself

So now I just have to wait for the damn sub to show up, hopefully Tuesday!

[str3atwarrior]

So now I just have to wait for the damn sub to show up, hopefully Tuesday!

Lol i was thinking i was the only one that was jammed due to missing parts :p

Anyway you install's looking good! Aren't you gonna use T-nuts to mount the sub?

[Stryker]

Put some more screws in.... Overkill never hurts in these instances.
Just a few thoughts on what went sideways above. i understand that you are going for more function than pizazz on this project and thats fine, just remember that putting your work up on the net is a big step which opens yourself up for criticism in a large way. Just for doing that you get a thumbs up from me. everyone has there own opinions and it'll never change like it or not. we all started somewhere with this audio crap. you've done a decent job so far.

[eulogious]

So now I just have to wait for the damn sub to show up, hopefully Tuesday!

Lol i was thinking i was the only one that was jammed due to missing parts :p

Anyway you install's looking good! Aren't you gonna use T-nuts to mount the sub?

Oh ya, I am just waiting till I get the sub to see what size I need. I also want to use the actual sub to mark the holes for the bolts and what not, so I am just in a holding pattern until stuff comes in. I am hoping my PE order will come on tuesday as well because that's where my terminals are coming from, so if I don't have terminals, can't really install the sub Hopefully on tuesday…

Put some more screws in.... Overkill never hurts in these instances.
Just a few thoughts on what went sideways above. i understand that you are going for more function than pizazz on this project and thats fine, just remember that putting your work up on the net is a big step which opens yourself up for criticism in a large way. Just for doing that you get a thumbs up from me. everyone has there own opinions and it'll never change like it or not. we all started somewhere with this audio crap. you've done a decent job so far.

I was thinking the same thing about the screws… Maybe I will do that. I got a while damn box of them, why not use them

Thanks for the compliment I am trying to do it right and make it look good too. One of the biggest reasons I put stuff up on the web is so that I can learn, to help other learn through my process, and to get tips/pointers/criticism. If I am wrong, I want to be right. I want to do things the proper way, and if I am not I want someone to point it out! That way I don't start bad habits. That's also why I take lots of pics and post them as well. I hope that what I do will help someone else out and pics make it way easier to get what you want across. Also helps other point out the mistakes

I don't mind tips and criticism at all. I learned a long time ago that there is always someone smarter than me, so there will also be someone who is better than you as well.

So I was looking around for something else like the speaker grill to cover my stuff up, and I found this site, which is actually local to me! So I can save on shipping and get it right away when I am ready. But I don't really know what thickness to get. The nice thing is that it's "local" so I can go look at the actual product before buying, so that's cool.

I am looking at 1/8" steel perforated sheet with 1/8" holes staggered. I will get the 12"x36" sheet and cut it into two pieces. Here's the link:

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cf ... &top_cat=0

But I don't know if 1/8 is too thick? I want something strong and durable that will hold up over time and support some weight, nothing major, but bags of food, luggage if need be, that sort of thing. I realize that when the ti is covered I can't blast it because of lack of air flow, but I don't want the grill to collapse on the ti either.

Here is the 1/16 version, but this stuff might not be thick enough…

http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cf ... &top_cat=0

Same thing, just half as thick. What do you guys think? Ultimately I will go down and check both out and see which one I like. Price could be a factor as well The 1/16 is half the price. Hell I might just go with the thinner stuff, and if I don't like or it doesn't work because it's too thin, I can just buy the thicker stuff later… Either way, I think that I will go with this stuff. It's steel, so I will have to paint it, but getting some good paint that won't flake easily shouldn't be a problem.

Any suggestions on paint?

Thanks all!

[Stryker]

Have you considered hitting that area where the amp sits with Flat black spray paint? it would match the amp and prolly cost ya less than ten bucks. The contrast of the white against the amp and wires makes it untidy looking.

Well I'm glad you used this idea made a world of difference. the metal grill stuff would look cool and function well, but how you gonna cut it to size without all the ends being bent from cutting?
If you got extra screws put em' in. you could easily put 3 more between the one's you havein there already.

[eulogious]

Have you considered hitting that area where the amp sits with Flat black spray paint? it would match the amp and prolly cost ya less than ten bucks. The contrast of the white against the amp and wires makes it untidy looking.

Well I'm glad you used this idea made a world of difference. the metal grill stuff would look cool and function well, but how you gonna cut it to size without all the ends being bent from cutting?
If you got extra screws put em' in. you could easily put 3 more between the one's you havein there already.

Well, I was thinking about hitting up my friend with the table saw again… Another option is the place I am probably going to buy it at will actually cut it for me, but for a price. I am thinking that 12" might be a little wide, but 36" is an inch or so shorter than the compartment, which is 37.5". So if I cut it in half I can fudge the 1.5" and it won't really matter. But I might have to trim it down a 1/2 inch or so on the side. I will need to go out and measure, but not until the morning. So I am hoping that they will cut it there for me and I won't have to worry about it. If not, then over to my buddies with a new metal saw blade for his table saw and an angle grinder and I will see what happens! What's the worst that can happen??

I think tomorrow I will add more screws to the box. Like you said, it can't hurt!

I just need to see the difference in thickness of these perforated sheets. I really haven't work with steel before, so I don't really know how thick this stuff is, compared to how strong it is. I can use a ruler to see how thick it is, but how rigid it is, is more of my concern.

[eulogious]

Got my 12 today and installed it, temporarily. I am still waiting on my binding posts to come, should be tomorrow. For the mean time, I just drilled holes that were smaller than the binding post and pushed some wire through. It works, it's not completely sealed, but it still gets loud I also haven't add the trim piece since it will be coming out one more time...






It's ALOT louder than my 8! You feel it more in your chest now I like it alot so far, but it's only been in for a few hours, so only time will tell. I still need to carpet the box as well, but that's not going to happen for a little while.

I also started working on a bezel for my radio to get rid of the "homemade" one that the previous owner did. I still have a lot of sanding to do, but you get the idea.







Slowly but surely I am making progress!

[eulogious]

I forgot to mention that the sub actually ended up being dual 4ohm, instead of dual 2ohm. This actually worked out better, since I got the ti400.2 and it's 2 ohm stable for sure, I really don't care that the sub is running at 2ohm, infact I am glad! This way I can get a little more power out of the 400.2 Forgot to add that in there...

[eulogious]

Got my binding post in the mail today and installed them (the following is a copy and paste from another post, sorry if you read this twice).

I like these alot! They look awesome and professional

Pics!

Here's what's in the package:



Here it is before hammering it down:



In:





This is my one gripe I have about these. Since these binding posts accept up to 8awg wire, you would think that the soldering tabs would also except 8awg wire as well, because if you are running 8awg to the box, you will also want 8awg to the speaker as well. But the tabs don't accpet 8awg! Maybe 16awg, but not even the 12awg that I am using! Kinda stupid if you ask me. So I had to use lots of flux and solder to make sure the connection was good, so it worked out, but you would think the solder tabs would accept up to 8awg wire, not a maximum of 16awg



One all soldered up:



Both all soldered up w/heatshrink for good measure:



In the box!



Finished product:



So I will be using these again for sure! Probably for every box I build. The solder tab isn't that big of a deal, just more of a WTF thing. I like the idea of a solder tab as well. That way I know that the connection will always be good in the box. It's soldered!

I really like these and would recommend them to anyone building a box!

I also installed my t-nuts as well, but one thing I didn't think about is getting longer bolts! I got 3/4" bolts, and they are too short to grab! So I need to get 1.25" bolts to make sure they grab Annoying. Didn't think about the lip of the sub being a 1/4" thick, oh well. Have to pick those up in the morning.

Also, don't go to a name brand store to buy t-nuts! They rip you off big time! Lowe's was going to charge me $1.05 a t-nut! That's insane! I went to my local lumber yard and they had them for $0.31 a t-nut. MUCH better. 3 bucks instead of 10, ya, I will take that. Just a little heads up because I have heard t-nuts are expensive, but only if you shop at the big box stores!

So far I really do like this sub. I haven't had a 12 in so long that it sounds really good, even if it's not the best in the world It hits WAY harder than my 8 did

[kg1961]

Put some more screws in.... Overkill never hurts in these instances.
Just a few thoughts on what went sideways above. i understand that you are going for more function than pizazz on this project and thats fine, just remember that putting your work up on the net is a big step which opens yourself up for criticism in a large way. Just for doing that you get a thumbs up from me. everyone has there own opinions and it'll never change like it or not. we all started somewhere with this audio crap. you've done a decent job so far.

x2!!!!!!!!!!! you will be fine with you set up the way that it is... With only one sub you are not a bass head and just keep the amp tuned right no bass boast ect and they will give you years of fun.
great work so far
Mike

[eulogious]

Oh, I double them amount of screws in there I just didn't post it. But I literally added twice as many screws to it I don't think I will be having any problems with the box now!

[eulogious]

Ok, so I finally got my sub installed permanently! But it was a PITA, and I learned a few things

First thing I learned when building a box is make the speaker opening smaller, and make it bigger if needed. In my case I should have made the opening a 1/4" smaller and I would have been fine. So next time I will take the manufactures measurements for the mounting diameter and shrink it by 1/4". MDF is easy enough to sand down that so that won't be a big deal.

Next thing I learned is about t-nuts. Never have used them before, I figured just pressing in the t-nut should suffice. Well, it would have it my mounting hole was the correct size. Since it was a 1/4" to big, 2 of the t-nuts didn't grab the wood well because of the lack of wood that just pushing them in with a pair of pliers wasn't enough. So of course after tightening every bolt down but the last one, I go to the last one, and it spins So I had to remove the sub and try again. So when I did it again, I used a washer to tighten the t-nut in using a bolt, and after I did that I had no issues.

I also learned to buy the correct bolt length It sucks when you buy 3 different sizes of bolts till you find the correct length. Annoying. Stupid trim piece...

So I would say all in all it was a good learning experience I am glad I did it though. This is the first time I have built/designed a box on my own so now I know what I need to do to make building the next one go alot smoother

I haven't carpeted the box yet, because I really don't know how to do it, and I don't have any money for another week. So eventually the box will get carpet, but for now it's done!

[ttocs]

you can always put another piece of wood on top of the one that you cut the opening too bigl on but you are right, you can always take more off but it is hard to put it on. I like to wait till I get the woofer in the box and use the circle that it is mounted in in the shipping box to trace my circle.

rather then t-nuts i like threaded inserts better. they look different and maybe we can get a pic up but you thread those into the holes similar to a hela-coil ifyou know what they are.

[eulogious]

you can always put another piece of wood on top of the one that you cut the opening too bigl on but you are right, you can always take more off but it is hard to put it on. I like to wait till I get the woofer in the box and use the circle that it is mounted in in the shipping box to trace my circle.

rather then t-nuts i like threaded inserts better. they look different and maybe we can get a pic up but you thread those into the holes similar to a hela-coil ifyou know what they are.

I thought about putting another piece of wood on top of the other one, and that was my last resort option. I really didn't feel like doing that at all I will admit this time I was a little anxious to get the sub in, so I wanted the box done before the sub got here. The last time I did this and my buddy basically built the box for me, we used the drawing in the box as well. That way you can't mess up

I looked into using the threaded inserts as well and though about using them, but decided on the t-nuts, and in this case I am glad I did. There wouldn't have been enough wood for the insert to take hold on the one that spun on me Luckily by design with the t-nut, it made it possible to tighten it down without having a ton of material to support it, after a bit of fussing around with it.

I glad I did this, I learned alot! As long as I don't make these same mistakes again