Stipud's SAAB 9-5

Have a cool car stereo? Post your install pictures here! No PG? No problem! Competition grade or sub-in-box setups: ALL are welcome!
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Stipud's SAAB 9-5

Post by stipud »

Phase 0: BACKGROUND

I got this "new" (used) 1999 Saab 9-5, which already has a pretty decent system from the factory. Naturally though, that's not good enough for any of us, am I right?
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(Un)fortunately a week after I bought the car, the alternator crapped out... so I called Stan at WranglerNW and got this mean puppy installed, making an unholy 190 no-bs externally regulated amps.
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I then also added an Optima Bluetop with 800 CCA as well to make sure the car will have the juice it needs (0 gauge power and ground are for the alternator ;) ).
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I still did want to keep the system modest though, because I want to keep trunk room for camping/road trips, and have my seats able to fold down for longer cargo or skis/snowboards if necessary (hell, I live an hour from the mountains). Also, the stock deck is really integrated into the car, so I was not looking forward to changing it. Luckily it has balanced outputs, and plays everything I need it to (CDs :) ). Majette came to the rescue and sold me an AudioControl Three.1, which converts a balanced signal to 8v RMS single-ended, while still having a few useful EQ features (good enough for me).

Unfortunately it was nearly impossible for me to find room for the 900.7AL which would keep it out of the way in the trunk. That amp is just too damn big. While I was hunting around though, I noticed a nicely indented part under the parcel shelf that would perfectly fit a smaller amp! So, through a torturously complicated trade between Mastiff, Me-262 and I, I finally got the 500.4AL I needed.

Now to the speakers. The stock system runs 9... center, l/r dash, f/r doors, l/r parcel subwoofers. I want to keep everything stealth, so everything needs to be mounted in the stock locations. Unfortunately the stock locations are really shallow... but, again, I was fortunate enough to have a set of Elite 5's. I picked up a set of Elite 6Ms from bdubs, so now I have a 6-1 set for the front doors and l/r dash (run off the front of the 500.4), and I will install my 5's in the rear doors off the stock amplifier as rear fill.

Another brilliant idea I had is that when I remove the subs to put stuff in the trunk, I can still have bass, by using a pair of Tang Band 6x9 Subwoofers in the stock subwoofer locations. Unfortunately I haven't gotten this far yet.


Phase 1: BASS

First I had to tap into the factory amp harness for remote, power/ground for the EQ, and RCA outputs.
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I could have just isolated the ground shield and ignored the balanced output, running the RCAs straight back, but what's the fun in that? The voltage of the stock line was pretty low (~2v if even), so I had to boost this and run a high voltage single-ended RCA to the back instead. I managed to squeeze my EQ nicely into the glovebox, where it is accessible, yet hidden, and very close to the stock amplifier in the passenger foot well.
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I played some 60Hz tones and adjusted the gains on the EQ to put out 8v RMS to the front/sub output RCAs, which are run to the trunk along with the LPL and remote wires. The LPL was installed accessibly in the dash, because it is small enough that nobody will notice it.
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Now for the trunk... The amp and crossover were mounted under the parcel shelf (excuse the wiring, this was a work in progress after all).
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There is 2 gauge power and ground going directly into the amplifier. I do not fuck around when it comes to giving my amps power! The Xmax 12's were installed in a PG prefab box that I bought for the price of a McDonalds lunch when International Stereo went out of business. It's attached to the trunk using terribly ugly orange nylon rope (I need to think of something better that will hold it tight but still be easy to release for quick removal).
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So... that about does it! Fired the system up and what happened? Eureka! I have bass now. Too much bass infact. Off of "250 watts" those subwoofers can be pointlessly loud. Good thing I have that LPL to keep everything at a nice, modest level ;)


Phase 2: COMPONENTS

One of the nice things about installing on the parcel shelf, is that there is a top side to it as well! All the wires are run neatly out of the way, and pop out nicely right in front of the terminals, so the install has been kept nice and clean.
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The Elite components managed to fit into the stock locations with minimal modification. On the front, I simply had to cut down a few tabs, and on the rear, I had to file out some room for the bigger driver (someone told me it was 5.25", when it is really closer to 4").
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The tweeters were interesting, because I didn't have flush mount cups, nor did I have any solid, non-acoustically-reflective material available that was thin enough to baffle the front location... so they are installed with tape, and a cutout from a shoebox (don't tell anyone ;) ). Fortunately the dash is relatively soft, so the reflections aren't unbearable. Running the tweeters out of phase, reflected off of the windscreen, has them blending perfectly.
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I tapped the speaker cables in to the factory amp along with everything else (RCA outputs, remote, EQ power, etc), because the factory 14 gauge wire was big enough for a few feet, and the doors were run through massively complex connectors rather than loom. Cutting up my doors just to run speaker wire would be ugly, and extremely difficult. Note that all connections have been twisted, soldered, heat shrunk and taped, and all cable has been secured approximately every 1/2 foot, or at every junction. I also taped flat everything installed on the shelf to ensure that there would be no rattle from the wires. I did my best to mimic an OEM style setup as best as possible.
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So, all in all, mission accomplished. The only tuning I had to do to get the system to sound great was wire the subs out of phase (they were slightly behind my music, now they are oh so tight, and blend in perfectly). I am going to do some mild dinking around with the EQ, but my first RTA showed it was already +- 5dB from 200-10kHz, naturally with way more bass than necessary, and a few unavoidable 10kHz+ spikes and valleys from reflecting my tweeters off the glass. No, it is not über-pro competition grade, but it is perfect for a daily driver, especially because I can remove my subs in under a minute, and have 99.5% use of my trunk, without worrying about scratching anything. The area on the parcel shelf where the amp is mounted is actually indented by an inch (you can only see the tips of the amps if you look straight on, and the system is invisible if you are standing up).


Phase 3: TUNING

I haven't done much to my install since phase 2, besides changing my tuning and subwoofer. I was getting tired of the preset 90Hz crossover in the EQ, so I removed the chip, and sent full range signals to the amp instead. Now I can use the amp's variable crossover, which is now set much lower (60Hz or so for the sub, 40Hz for the components because they roll off pretty quick on their own). Unfortunately with my components set this low, I can get some random buzzing from my doorpanel, so it looks like my next step is sealing the door pods and/or sound deadening the front doors. In the meantime I will probably be raising the crossover to the same frequency as the sub.
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After reading Brandon's subwoofer test, I realized it was time for me to do something about the bass. The dual Xmax quite frankly overpowered my "music", and while they had amazing attack and tightness in upper bass, the deep stuff was boomy and not very accurate. I have always heard about the quality of ID subs, so I figured I would see what all the rage is about, so I bought Brandon's IDMax after the test. Wow... this sub is awesome. It is very musical, and has great clarity on low bass. Unfortunately it just doesn't blend perfectly on metal, which is what I listen to 90% of the time.

For christmas, Brian sent me an RSD 10" prototype. You can read my impressions on it here. Basically it had less car shaking oomph, less low bass, but blended magically with everything. Why the hell did I ever switch to 12's anyways? Before this car I have always run 10's, and once I get myself a box for the RSD, I don't think I will be going back to 12's again.


Pics
In case you haven't seen enough, I have a lot more pics up on my website:
http://photo.stipud.com/v/saab/stereo/
http://photo.stipud.com/v/saab/
Last edited by stipud on Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:21 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Post by Bfowler »

I'm stoked that you are actually going to use the 345 for your install. You need to get your hands dirty and try to make a fiberglass box for it tucked into a corner
my ex-girlfriend said "its car audio or me"
i've had tougher choices at a soda machine...
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Post by Francious70 »

Excellent install Tom. Definitely puts MANY I have seen to shame.
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Post by stipud »

345? Is that some codeword for RSD?

Yeah, I would fiberglass it if I had the balls. So far nothing yet, but I may take a stab at it this summer. It is way too fucking cold right now.
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Post by stipud »

Francious70 wrote:Excellent install Tom. Definitely puts MANY I have seen to shame.
Thanks dude. I tried to pull off a very modest setup that still pulls off the OEM usability. I think I have definitely succeeded so far, and it sounds awesome for a pseudo-stealth install that uses the stock speaker locations.
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Post by Bfowler »

Whoops, yeah, I'm on my blackberry...in a meeting :)

Rsd = 345 if I don't accidently hit shift-lock
my ex-girlfriend said "its car audio or me"
i've had tougher choices at a soda machine...
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Post by stipud »

Bfowler wrote:Whoops, yeah, I'm on my blackberry...in a meeting :)
Now THAT's dedication (or is it addiction?)
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Post by Bfowler »

Both!!!

I have a problem....and admitting that is that is the first step.

Btw, thanks for making the default background white, makes it WAY faster to load. Trying to get on sound buggy was obnoxious on my phone
my ex-girlfriend said "its car audio or me"
i've had tougher choices at a soda machine...
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Post by fuzzysnuggleduck »

It is way too fucking cold right now.
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Post by stipud »

Bfowler wrote:Btw, thanks for making the default background white, makes it WAY faster to load. Trying to get on sound buggy was obnoxious on my phone
Say wah?

Are you using the subsilver look in your profile? That should be ideal for PDA. I still have to make logos for it.
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Post by Bfowler »

Yes, I'm using subsilver, its works great!
my ex-girlfriend said "its car audio or me"
i've had tougher choices at a soda machine...
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Post by TigraTunerke »

Nice install...
But I thought it was not so good to install the amp,
upside down underneat the parcel shelf...
Because the amp creates heat, hot air rises
and stays to much inside the amp when installed like this...
I think I read this somewhere...

Those Elite compo's, are they a good choice?
I still need 2 sets of compo's, but I dont know what to choose...
My amp is a PG ZX950.

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Post by fuzzysnuggleduck »

Stipud's amps have fans in them. I believe they are well enough cooled with these fans to run upside down with no problem.
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Post by stipud »

Tigra,

The fan allows you to mount the amp any way you like. If there was no fan, I wouldn't be able to install it like this, but with the fan I can run the amp under the shelf all day and it barely gets warm. The only downside of this setup is the noise... you can hear the fan if I lower the seats and turn the stereo all the way down. Also, the amp case makes a high pitched rattling sound that is really annoying. I am going to open it up and put sound deadener on parts of the case in hopes that I can stop the rattle/squeaking. I remember having the same problem with my Ti900.7 as well. You may notice the two fans with your ZX950 in your Tigra hatchback as well, but I don't think the ZX amps rattle as much (never had the problem with the ZX450/ZX500's I have installed).

The Elite components are a great set. They mount shallow, have awesome impact, beautiful midrange, and smooth treble. If you want something similar, but cheaper, then check out the RSD components. They have much more midbass, a bit worse midrange, and equally nice treble. These speakers would not have fit as nicely in my car however.
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Post by Bfowler »

lets not jump quite as far as to say "much better midbass" at least in my experiance.
my ex-girlfriend said "its car audio or me"
i've had tougher choices at a soda machine...
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Post by stipud »

Well, by better I mean louder, at least in infinite baffle. Then again I haven't done an A/B comparison as you have, so let me know what you think ;)
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Post by stipud »

So... it came time for a change. Out with the old, in with the nucleus.
Image

Brian gave me this little RSD 10 as a christmas present. I was so thrilled with it, that I got him to build and ship me a box, custom precision fabricated to fit my car perfectly. The thing tucks into the corner, is narrower, and sits a few inches further back... so it is much less intrusive. Brian makes amazing boxes. This thing went together better than IKEA furniture.
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And the results? Wow (pardon the terrible camera). I love this woofer. It doesn't have that rumble, painful lows, or vicious car destroying power that the IDMax does, but it more than makes up for it in tightness and clarity. My stereo sounds much, MUCH better, especially on metal, which I listen to 90% of the time anyways. The IDMax easily destroys it on rap, but I just don't have enough power to keep it tight in the higher octaves (and it's crossed at 70Hz already).

The sub is much nicer on my electrical system than the IDMax. The ID was very sensitive to where I have my gains. Drive it a little too hard, and my headlights turn into a disco. It is a thirsty sub... I am sure I would love it if I had double the power, but right now I just can't give it what it needs. This RSD can draw the lights down, but it does it so briefly and much less noticably.

Timing is definitely better on the RSD, but that is more likely because it is a 10. I really wish I had an IDMax 10 to compare to, because I think it would be an even battle at that point. Maybe my next woofer will be an IDQ 10V3... we'll see if that fits the bill.
Last edited by stipud on Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Bfowler »

awe shucks
my ex-girlfriend said "its car audio or me"
i've had tougher choices at a soda machine...
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Post by stipud »

While I'm on this thread, I should comment on a few other things.

I picked up a cheapie Tang Band 2" midrange driver. This thing is awesome! For the size, you can actually hear the thing belting out decently low midrange... plus it did a great job of treble as well. This speaker would make an awesome center channel, which is exactly why I bought it.

Unfortunately I wasn't so lucky with it in the car. I decided that I would run it off of the stock amp (because it has a center channel). Little did I know, that center channel is crossed over ridiculously high... like 5kHz or so. With that thing playing treble off of the stock amp, shooting straight up off of the glass... I don't think I have experienced acoustical pain that bad. Ever. The reflections were awful... with just that center speaker playing, I heard it off of the window next to me, beaming harsh pain directly into my ears.

Damn. So it looks like the stock amp won't be a good candidate for a center channel. I would however not hesitate to put it in if I had some decent full-range power. I am actually considering buying a second one and doing some weird project with them... maybe revamping a set of computer speakers or something.


Along with that center channel, I also picked up the Tang Band 6x9's that I have been talking about for so long. These things sound quite nice played free air. They have that very warm, transparent home audio sound, and would likely make a great subwoofer for stock 6x9 locations.

So why haven't I posted install pictures yet? Well... I can't find a 6x9 enclosure that will hold them. No matter what I try to do... gluing, gasketing, etc.. the damn woofers tear apart any 6x9 box I throw at them. They burst apart at the seams, or leak around the edges and make a nasty farting sound. Because of this, they can't really seem to get loud at all in the car.

I guess I will try them infinite baffle, installed in the factory parcel shelf locations. If this sounds decent, I will likely hook up a relay in the trunk, so that I can switch between the parcel shelf speakers and subwoofer, for days when I need to use the trunk for something other than bass. If they don't work IB, it looks like a custom box may be necessary.
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Post by Francious70 »

How about building the box for them on the underside of the shelf? I've seen this done before with excellent results.
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Post by Bfowler »

i thought of that, but if tom wanted me to build ti, i would have to do it without having his car there, and there is a amp n crossover in the way...
my ex-girlfriend said "its car audio or me"
i've had tougher choices at a soda machine...
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Post by Wink »

http://photo.stipud.com/v/saab/stereo/w ... d.jpg.html

i might be dumb but what is that box thinggy..lol
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Post by stipud »

Wink wrote:http://photo.stipud.com/v/saab/stereo/w ... d.jpg.html

i might be dumb but what is that box thinggy..lol
That's the stock amplifier. I tapped in all of the speaker wire there, and got my balanced RCA signal there too.
Last edited by stipud on Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Francious70 »

Bfowler wrote:i thought of that, but if tom wanted me to build ti, i would have to do it without having his car there, and there is a amp n crossover in the way...
I think it may be time to get Tom outa his diapers. :lol:
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Post by stipud »

Francious70 wrote:How about building the box for them on the underside of the shelf? I've seen this done before with excellent results.
There are two stock 6x9 locations on either side of the parcel shelf, that have grilles over them.
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I was planning on mounting 6x9 boxes with the speakers under the shelf, firing through the hole. Unfortunately I can't find a prefab box that can hold the speakers. They just decimate the boxes, blowing them apart at the edges...

Double unfortunately I am lazy as hell, and have no tools, so I can't really make my own boxes either. Running open/infinite baffle should be easy enough.... I will see if it makes a worthwhile amount of bass or not. Those stock locations are used for subwoofers, so they have hopefully made it work well enough from the factory. If it doesn't work that well, then maybe I can think about boxes this spring.
Last edited by stipud on Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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