Megadrum!

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:28 am

Ok, I've decided I'm going to build this: http://www.megadrum.info/

The goal will be to eventually combine the Megadrum with Pintech mesh pads and build a custom kit to replace my rubber-padded Yamaha DTXpress IV.

The big question for me is where will I have bench space to do it? The material costs are not too large and the PCB layout doesn't look too frighteningly hard. Anyone with experience in building PCBs can give me some tips?

I have access to a quality soldering iron and test tools so there's no concern for cost of tools, just parts and time and frustration when I fuck up.

So, what do you think? Is this doable for a electronics noob?

Post by **stipud** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:53 am

Schematics are fine, but what you really need is a good PCB layout. If you can buy a ready made PCB, or at least get a printable PCB layout, this will be pretty easy. I'm surprised nobody is selling them though. There are many popular headphone amp kits like the CMOY, which have a similar complexity, and they are often sold as finished items on eBay.

I'm amazed at how ridiculously simple the schematics are though. Holy shit... I've made more complicated strobe lights

And the video

look at that skinny white nerd go!

I guess the most important part is the pads, which you would be buying separately. You obviously want something that emulates a drum kit. I wasn't completely sold by the rubbery feel either.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:20 am

Yeah, it's all about the PCB layout. I was thinking about how it might work while falling asleep last night... I'll have to do my research though.

Some guys are building the Megadrum with those hobby prototype boards where you have to jumper everything point to point but I want something solid that will last... and I've never made a PCB myself, ever. I think it sounds fun and challenging.

As for the heads, mesh is unquestionably better. Quieter, better feel, better response. But my damn Yamaha + pedals cost about $1700 all said an done, and they are pretty much a fraction of the Roland mesh kits with equivalent number of pieces. It was the ONLY way I could reasonably get into e-drumming quickly and without blowing my budget (and even $1700 at the time was a lot).

Now that I have some drums in place, I can spend time to get my perfect kit built right. Pintech licenses the Roland mesh design, but it comes much cheaper. They are a great American company with LOTS of online support and help. I've heard nothing but good things about Pintech.

Pintech mesh + Megadrum MIDI Brain with 32 inputs + BFD = Electronic Drumming heaven.

Now I just need the drive, the will, the skills and the gusto to build the brain... and once that is done and working I'll have taken that first step towards my custom dream kit.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:45 pm

I discovered one of the guys on the megadrum forum makes his own dual sided PCB (well he doesn't make them, he contracts them out from a build house so they are totally pro) and sells a kit with almost all of the components required included ICs, sockets, resistors, capacitors, etc.

The only thing you need that his kit doesn't provide appear to be some of the connectors and the case.... and I already have most of that. The kit sells for $88 Euros shipped to anywhere in the world. Not as cheap as the 100% DYI solution but his PCB is waaaaaaaaaay better than any I could make.

Post by **stipud** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:54 pm

I would buy that as well, to save the hassle. It's hard to make a PCB without any circuit breaks... granted you can usually run solder over cracks, or point to point wire extreme cases... but a good PCB is absolutely necessary for a really nice layout.

If you do a good job putting it together, I would house it under plexiglass to show it off for madcore nerd points!

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:56 pm

Woohoo! An old crapper MIDI/SMPTE unit I bought for $6 but never had a use for is finally paying off!

The LCD is exactly the kind of LCD I need, controller an all. I've also got the rackmount box which is big enough for the PCB + jacks and it has five buttons on the front (I only need four). The case is steel so it's going to be a bit of extra work drilling out the additional holes I need as well as making a couple larger holes... but it's a start on the materials you don't get with the kit.

Not sure if I'll actually use the rackmount case yet, we'll see...

Post by **stipud** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:19 am

Now you just need to stuff some rackmount Carver amps in there so you can shake your apartment building down

rolandk · Post by **rolandk** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:31 am

Good luck!

OT: I had a Yamaha e-kit with the rubber pads for a few years and hated that thing. Ended up selling it for $1k less than I paid for it

IMO e-drums are horrifically overpriced and don't sound very good. Now I use an Alesis SR16 and a drum plug-in in PTLE for the e-drum, and an acoustic kit for the real deal.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:29 am

rolandk wrote:Good luck!

OT: I had a Yamaha e-kit with the rubber pads for a few years and hated that thing. Ended up selling it for $1k less than I paid for it IMO e-drums are horrifically overpriced and don't sound very good. Now I use an Alesis SR16 and a drum plug-in in PTLE for the e-drum, and an acoustic kit for the real deal.

I don't hate my Yahama kit because it's the reason I'm still able to play music in my current situation without a "real" studio or jam space, which either get super expensive or are waaaay too far away for a casual musician. If I was planning on making a career out of it I would have made different decisions but I don't regret buying my kit. I'll likely have to sell my kit for $500-$900 less than I paid, based on current local pricing. To top it off, I was pretty sure I wasn't going to buy the Pintech E-Session kit until spring or so but now I see that Pintech has free shipping during the Holiday season (which may or may not apply to Canada, we'll see) and what looks to be a decent 1-year layaway program... but I don't know if I want to go there.

I wish my first kit was the right kit... but I don't have any regrets. Cost was a factor over a year ago when I bought it.

As for the sounds... well yes, the drum brain modules that come with all but the highest Roland kits are pretty much garbage and suitable for practice only. But that's where Trigger to MIDI comes into play. My current kit has this ability and so we use MIDI to trigger real, full drum sound with a program called BFD. There are several others out there, too. We've had engineers listen to our tracks and be wowed by the drum sounds then upon asking how we recorded drums so well, have their jaws drop when we tell them it's an electronic drum kit.

I'm just craving better feel, bigger heads, quieter playing and a custom project

Edit: If you want to hear what BFD sounds like in our setup, check out this track-in-progress: Landslide.

Edit 2: The track URL is now different than the track I describe below.

Keep in mind I'm not a professional drummer and this isn't the best BFD can sound. The bass is being played through an Ampeg simulator plugin. Sounds great for a simulator. It was jammed out live after two shared La Fin Du Monde and a six pack. I think it sounds good (the sound) but I obviously make mistakes and my cymbal control leaves something to be desired. You be the judge. Oh, and it will have other instruments, mainly guitars and vocals... but it's in the planning stages still.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:55 pm

On ANOTHER side note, it looks like I'll be shooting for a Hart Dynamics kit instead of a Pintech...

Post by **stipud** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:16 pm

You're so fickle man.

Why the change of mind?

Do you want to... GET THE FUNK

rolandk · Post by **rolandk** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:02 pm

Exports mp3 no worky. What are you doing for cymbals? They were the most frustrating thing about e-drums for me- getting any articulation out of the hi hats, not able to do swells, stuff like that. They work OK if you just bash on them.

btw, if you haven't been there already check out this place: http://www.vdrums.com/forum/. Lots of good diy info on there.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:10 pm

Thanks for the link to the forums, I've been checking them out already.

I was fickle because I discovered I could probably get more drum for the same money by going with Hart stuff. That and most people I've ready about prefer their feel. Less "bouncy" and more like acoustic drums. Besides, I need the funk.

I'm waiting on someone in Oshawa to get back to me about a kit he is selling for pretty much half of what it costs. It's a Hart Studio Master 6.4. It's AWESOME, I hope I can get it.

I've got the normal Yamaha 3-zone cymbals for my DTXpress and I've done fancy stuff with BFD to give the edge, bow and bell each the correct type and velocity range of sample for what I'm doing even though our BFD1.5 sample pack has no "edge" sounds for any cymbal, it's just a louder version of "hit" the way I have it setup. I can somewhat easily do swells, although they aren't perfect. No choke however, the Yamaha module does NOT send anything out the MIDI port during a choke operation

My main displeasure with the cymbals is that I am not quite consistent enough of a player to always hit them with the "right" amount of power that I want for a desired crash. I'm hoping lighter cymbals with more movement will fare better than this stiff and stiffly mounted Yamaha ones.

As for the hi hat, the Yammy has a crappy foot pedal and the same pad as the snare. Besides the physical motion of the pedal being crappy, it tracks decently well. I've got swells going from closed to opening happening relatively smoothly, HH splashes, etc.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:37 pm

Woohoo!

The drumming gods have been taking care of me.

I got the kit in Oshawa for $1500CAD + $142CAD shipping. I got the MegaDrum PCB kit being sent to me for $92 Euros. I've got an interested buyer for my drum kit... although he likely won't pay the asking price of $950, I'm guessing he'll offer $850 or so if he wants it.

Looks like I'll be spending around $1000 to upgrade from a five piece rubber kit with two cymbals and a shitty hi hat pedal to a 6 piece mesh head kit with three cymbals and a real hi hat stand plus the DIY brain module.

So...

From this kit:

To this kit:

I'll post build picture for when the DIY MegaDrum kit comes in and I start building it.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:01 pm

That's pretty badass!!!!!!

I'll be yer will nieghbors love that instead of a real set of skins.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:00 am

I received the Hart Kit today

The MegaDrum stuff is sitting in Canada Custom, for likely two weeks... I've rented a cruddy Roland TD-3 module for $9.50/week for two weeks just so I can have SOMETHING. At least it has MIDI out so I can still trigger BFD.

Me so happy.

Post by **stipud** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:41 am

I demand PICS once you've got it set up at Mike's

joyride · Post by **joyride** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:22 pm

I have alwasy wanted to pick up playing again, but being in an apartment, I cant play my old set. I have started to look into electric, but at my price point I would be stuck with shitty rubber heads. I may look into it further if I can just build a set cheaper buying the individual mesh heads. How does the trigger input to the computer though? Simple USB? I would love to build my own trigger and make a simple set.

I have also been looking at selling my old set. i thought it was an old POS, but it turns out it may be worth something. I know it is an old Slingerland (I would guess mid-70'2) and they are going for quite a bit of money. I will find out more when I head home for christmas.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:37 pm

The MegaDrum module has MIDI ports and a USB interface so you can use either. If you use MIDI, you need a MIDI interface (in our case a Digi002). If you use the USB interface, it acts as the MIDI interface and you just select it as the MIDI device from a pull down in BFD.

There is a lot of information about turning an acoustic set into a mesh electronic drum set on the web, but all of it consists of modifying the shells... and if you have an old classic (from the 70s!) kit, it will likely destroy all it's value.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:48 pm

stipud wrote:I demand PICS once you've got it set up at Mike's

Here are some teaser pics of the snare drum that comes with the kit. It's... like a real snare!

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:17 am

Here is the kit setup with four toms. Only three actually work with the Roland TD-3 module I'm using while I build the MegaDrum. The kit actually came with five toms... not even sure how I'd use five.

Here she is:

Post by **stipud** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:33 am

I like how your kickdrum and toms are all pretty much the same thing

So how does it "sound"?

Feel like real drums?

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:57 am

I'd say it's about 95% of what playing real drums feels like. The crashes are the least like the real thing, but still really good. I have some sensitivity tuning to do on them but nothing major.

It's night and day compared to the Yamaha... the dynamic range possible is HUGE. It's going to teach me how to play softly again. With the Yamaha, there was a point where too soft = no trigger and that was annoying. It made the dynamic range a bit shorter and caused me all kinds of grief when trying to play a note a volume "X" and and getting a note a volume "Y" instead because the range was shorter.

From the experience of a quick jam last night that went nowhere... I'm in drummer heaven. The snare is totally legit, the kick drum has infinitely more feel and precision, the toms respond very well, the hi hat and ride are wicked and easy to trigger and use and the crashes are acceptable.

Now to build the damn MegaDrum and get the whole thing rocking. Unfortunately I won't have build pics because Mike offered to bring the parts to his work today and solder most of it up there during his long down time. I know, I'm lazy making my friend do it (hey, he offered!) but it will ensure better quality and it will be done today.

Now I just gotta source the damn 1/4" jacks, locally if possible. I don't want to wait on PE or any other American site to send stuff up to me in Canada.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:25 am

Got the jacks locally

Here are the final assembled pics... ok, so it's ugly and not measured properly, I know. It's temporary, really. I couldn't find the "right" case in time and this tin as just sitting there. so I figured why the fuck not.

http://westendjam.techslaves.org/Images/ to see the photos.

Post by **stipud** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:20 pm

God you lazy fuck just post them...

All I gotta say is...
- Nice work with the duct tape

- Ever heard of a ruler?

And...

I think your next "case" should be a drum. Use vinyl or a clear membrane or whatever for the top of it so you can see the electronic guts. Then put all of your trigger inputs on the bottom. You can mount it on your drum rack and route all the wires discretely this way. Noone will ever know

Hell, you could even hardwire an internal trigger into that drum as well, so that you can test the megadrum on itself, if you know what I mean.