Whats everyone think of the new2011 Mustang gt

oldschoolfan · Post by **oldschoolfan** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:37 am

Just to play devils advocate, don't forget that dyno's can be adjusted to compensate for "atmospheric" conditions. Unless you are doing a side by side on the same dyno take it with a grain of salt.

NewOldStock · Post by **NewOldStock** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:49 pm

I have never seen a Dyno run of a car put out more than rated hp numbers at the wheels bone stock. since manufacturers rate engine hp at the flywheel.

So, either Ford is intentionally rating low or something is a little funky with that setup... and since the Camaro has been outselling them for the last year, I highly doubt they would rate the power that much lower unless there was a reason.

But, its a MT test, so that adds a certain amount of credibility to it... right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-uTjaQ6E7g

Post by **stipud** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:07 pm

Pretty sure MT is using corrected HP. When I compare against other manufacturers I see similar results to their crank rated power.

HoseHead · Post by **HoseHead** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:15 pm

The 2011 Mustang rear ends look like one of those waif girls with no ass. It's ugly. The front end massage wasn't needed either. The 09-10 models look better and tougher from all angles.

Camaro look weird to me. I grew up with these classic lines and GM caught it a little bit, but not to the level Chrysler and Ford did with their modern retro pony designs.

The Challenger wheels, except for the SRT version, look too tall and skinny for my liking. But their 6.1 litre elephant power plant is nutso. Even a regular 5.7 litre Hemi is rudely powerful through it's entire RPM range. These red line @ 6500.

HH

oldschoolfan · Post by **oldschoolfan** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:15 pm

Road and Track tells a different story here. This is a PDF of their test summary. http://www.roadandtrack.com/content/dow ... m_data.pdf

However at their track testing the Mustang was a tenth of a second quicker around the road course. Their opinion was that the Mustang had a stiffer and better tuned suspension.

NewOldStock · Post by **NewOldStock** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:17 am

oldschoolfan wrote:Road and Track tells a different story here. This is a PDF of their test summary. http://www.roadandtrack.com/content/dow ... m_data.pdf

However at their track testing the Mustang was a tenth of a second quicker around the road course. Their opinion was that the Mustang had a stiffer and better tuned suspension.

Interesting...
R&T vs MT - both fairly respected car rags, both came out different.

Though I cant help but point out that the MT guys thought the Camaro was the King of the Pony cars against the 2010 Mustang and 3rd against the same Challenger and the 2011 Mustang in another test. Apparently they used a different group of people for the two tests that both unanimously picked different cars.

I also couldnt help but note the price difference. Mustang has a lower starting price, but a higher "as tested" price.

Camaro has better front/rear weight ratio (52/48 vs 54/46) but weighs in a couple of hundred pounds heavier...

The Mustang looks to have a shorter stopping distance than the Camaro on the R&T test as well, wasnt it the opposite for MT?

I will also say this about the fuel economy they post... horribly inaccurate! with only 850miles on my 2010 Camaro I get 32.9mpg average on the freeway (with the Automatic) and when driving like a sane person in town, I get around 20mpg. when driving like a grandma I can get 25.4 (all averages)

I think the Camaro could use a new rear-end gear (Mod that I will be doing to mine)... the 3.73 that the Mustang uses would make a huge improvement in the Camaro, along with stiffer sway bars.

On a side note, the Pedders car pulled a 1.38g on the skidpad in the 2010 Camaro with their suspension kit, so that 4000lbs CAN be controlled with some help - who am I kidding, bone stock both of these cars are more capable than I am.

I also find it entertaining how close the two are in interior space... half in here or there and a couple of cubes in the trunk is all that separates them.

All in all, I think reality will show these two being closer than ever... which means nothing but good stuff for us, the consumer.

As for looks, I have always had a thing for fat asses, so the looks of the Camaro appeal to me more than the straighter lined Mustang.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:48 am

I find it funny that all these numbers mean soooooooooooooo much to people....... Truth is that 98% of the miles put on any of those cars will be under normal conditions and NONE on these numbers really matter except gas mileage and horse power.... I road-rally fairly often around P-town and the main factor for me is liking the way my car drives..... Give me some real info like "This motor and tranny combo is capable of going 200K before rebuild under normal driving." and "The home mechanic can do all routine maintenance." In my mind, if I can't work on it....I won't own it. I like opening the hood and not seeing a ton of plastic covering everything....

Another thing to remember is that anybody can find something "wrong" with any of these cars.... It's ALL about preference and loyalties..... The Camero could be the biggest turd on the road and guys will defend it.... Same with the Mustang and the Mopar......

oldschoolfan · Post by **oldschoolfan** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:12 am

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:I find it funny that all these numbers mean soooooooooooooo much to people....... Truth is that 98% of the miles put on any of those cars will be under normal conditions and NONE on these numbers really matter except gas mileage and horse power.... I road-rally fairly often around P-town and the main factor for me is liking the way my car drives..... Give me some real info like "This motor and tranny combo is capable of going 200K before rebuild under normal driving." and "The home mechanic can do all routine maintenance." In my mind, if I can't work on it....I won't own it. I like opening the hood and not seeing a ton of plastic covering everything....

Another thing to remember is that anybody can find something "wrong" with any of these cars.... It's ALL about preference and loyalties..... The Camero could be the biggest turd on the road and guys will defend it.... Same with the Mustang and the Mopar......

Slight digression but you brought up one of my biggest pet peeves so I have to comment. F-ing plastic engine covers!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I stated before I am generally a Chevy guy but hello? What is that crap under the hood of the Camaro? It looks like something you would find under the hood of a really really cheap die cast model of the car. Get rid of that crap. Ooh, it has bumps and grooves in it that emulate nothing underneath it. They serve no purpose other than to make under the hood look "good" to someone that does not want to look under the hood anyway. If I end up buying one of these I will remove that cover and ship it back to the GM tech center with a note stating that the dealer forgot to remove this protective shipping cover during vehicle prep.

The mustang, much better, you can actually see the intake runners and the valve covers. Their plastic is just a silly ring that surrounds the intake runners, again the cover serves no purpose other than perceived aesthetics.

All manufacturers, get rid of this stupid crap. How many hundreds of thousands of dollars are spent on designing and manufacturing these stupid parts. Damn bracket engineers.

End rant.

Post by **Bfowler** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:06 pm

^ i agree.

but this is sort of like the new PG gear isn't it.

we know that a heat sink like the MS amps is very functional. but "looks pretty" sells. true for amps, and cars.

HoseHead · Post by **HoseHead** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:31 pm

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:I find it funny that all these numbers mean soooooooooooooo much to people....... Truth is that 98% of the miles put on any of those cars will be under normal conditions and NONE on these numbers really matter except gas mileage and horse power.... I road-rally fairly often around P-town and the main factor for me is liking the way my car drives..... Give me some real info like "This motor and tranny combo is capable of going 200K before rebuild under normal driving." and "The home mechanic can do all routine maintenance." In my mind, if I can't work on it....I won't own it. I like opening the hood and not seeing a ton of plastic covering everything....

Another thing to remember is that anybody can find something "wrong" with any of these cars.... It's ALL about preference and loyalties..... The Camero could be the biggest turd on the road and guys will defend it.... Same with the Mustang and the Mopar......

Sounds like someone forgot their dose of Geritol this morning

There be no punks on Fuzzy's lawn for sure ........

HH

Post by **Bfowler** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:45 pm

...says the guy rocking like 3 "coupe de elderly's! "

Post by **Rold Gold** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:21 pm

Not at all HH........
I was merly stating that at the end of the day FORD guys will defend a Mustang, CHEVY guys will defend the Camero and MOPAR guys will defend the Challenger.....

Now if a unbiased party had the money to buy all 3 of these cars and truely drive them on a daily basis in the real-world for a solid year and then do a right-up comparison on them as a "whole car" I'd be really interested in reading what they found.
*Which offers the most comfort
*Which offers the best fuel mileage
*Which is the most fun to drive
*Which was most likely to get me a ticket
Those kinds of things..............

And no...........there ain't no fukin kids on my lawn!!!!!!!!

NewOldStock · Post by **NewOldStock** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:47 pm

like I said before, as a new Chevy owner, I am impressed with the new Mustang... gear-heads, REAL gearheads, can cross over brand bias.

As for the engine cover - I would be more than happy to ditch the color-matched engine cover on my Camaro if GM would have taken that 100k of engineering time it took to design the cover and cleaned up/organized the engine bay with it instead. Its one thing to want to see the engine, but another entirely to want to see almost nothing but rubber tubes and fittings everywhere. So I agree with the concept, but from the pics I have seen of whats under that plastic thing, I'll keep it for now, though I may mod it to let out some of the heat that it undoubtedly holds next to the engine.

of course, on my old Blazer I also had a *gasp* chrome air-cleaner housing that was, for all intensive purposes, the same concept. but I also took the time, lots of time, cleaning up and organizing the engine bay so that when I popped the hood I could do everything I needed, see what needed to be seen, not worry about wires or hoses burning on intakes, heads, headers, etc...

Post by **ttocs** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:15 pm

I have been a mustang fan for a longtime and have always been honest that I likes some of the 05-10 models but most of them don't do it for me. My generation of mustang the sn95 is one of the least popular generations among mustang fans though so who am I to judge?

Most gearheads I know have their favorites but recognize that with enough or the right time and money that almost any of them can be made fast now. There are only a few dumbasses I know that will watch everything and no matter what hate it... I already know that top gear will hate it, they always do but hopefully when they show it this time they will get their facts straight. Last time they had a mustang they fucked up so much stuff it was funny! IT is those dumbassas that are the annoying ones, can't get their facts straight and are still never wrong!

dwnrodeo · Post by **dwnrodeo** » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:13 am

I just saw a Mustang Shelby 500 yesterday next to me. I'm not usually a mustang guy but I have to admit, it looked awesome!

Post by **ttocs** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:26 am

impressive it is aginst an m3

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/24/vide ... #continued

long vids and both worth the time

discuss

Post by **stipud** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:53 am

ttocs wrote:discuss

Gad bless Merka!

Post by **ttocs** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:46 am

no doubt! It is nice that we are finally beating the camaro but to be keepin up with an m3 is a different class all together as reflected by the price. Wait till the boss comes out, should be interesting to see what that can do...

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:31 pm

it is a 4 year old luxury car with a smaller motor against a brand new vehicle.

its good progress for ford. but how impressed can i be that they had four years and were able to match the performance. they had a goal, took four years and met it.

plus there are aspects like road feel that you cant put numbers too. if the 2011 feels anything like the 2008 gt500...i'll still pass on it even if its posting the same track times

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:07 am

Bfowler wrote:it is a 4 year old luxury car with a smaller motor against a brand new vehicle.

This sums it up for sure. 4.0 compared to 5.0, that's a fair amount of displacement, but yet the m3 puts out only a few HP less, which is the more efficient engine?

I will say that those are good numbers for the stang for sure, can't argue with that. But they didn't compare the 2011 m3, so it will be interesting to see what happens when that comes down the tube. I don't have any idea what BMW has in store, but I am sure that this probably hit their radar, and most likely will not go by unnoticed...

Post by **ttocs** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:49 am

well now lets not forget the difference in the asking price(<20k?), and the fact that this is just the GT racing aginst bimmers racing division. Wait till the cobra or boss comes out and we will have to see what they pit it aginst then as the M should be way outclassed on the track by those two and a good driver. What would happen if you took the $20k you saved and then put it back into the mustang?

I would score it as a win for ford personally

You know bimmer isn't happy and will bring something out to retaliete but it will probably be even more expensive.

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:11 am

Don't get me wrong, I have driven 2 different 500+ WHP mustangs, they are a blast to drive, and I have also driven a 400+ WHP BMW 5 series and it was a blast to drive, so I have been in and driven both of these cars, so I don't really lean one way or the other because a car without AWD is a turd to me

All joking aside, the new stang hit it out of the park for sure, but was it a grand slam, I don't really think so. By the time you spend the money to upgrade the stang to try to compete with the bimmer, you have really narrowed down the price difference. Then when you go to sell it you can't really recoup those costs, but with the bimmer, it already has a better resell value so you get your money back, sort of. You get what you pay for. The bimmer is a tried and true platform with a proven history of performance, while the stang has been hit or miss. IDK, but I think I would take the bimmer just because it's a bimmer and I know exactly what I am getting into. That and going fast straight is fun, but I have a motorcycle because I love the twisty

so getting a better suspension to start makes more sense to me.

Again, the new stang is stellar, but since I can't afford either one, I will go with the bimmer since we are pretending

It was a good watch as well, thanks for the links!

Post by **stipud** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:14 am

ttocs wrote:well now lets not forget the difference in the asking price(<20k?), and the fact that this is just the GT racing aginst bimmers racing division. Wait till the cobra or boss comes out and we will have to see what they pit it aginst then as the M should be way outclassed on the track by those two and a good driver. What would happen if you took the $20k you saved and then put it back into the mustang?

I would score it as a win for ford personally

You know bimmer isn't happy and will bring something out to retaliete but it will probably be even more expensive.

Let's not forget the difference in the whole package you get for $20k difference either. There's FAR more substance to the M3 than how it performs on the track.

The Golden One · Post by **The Golden One** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:18 am

one thing if you notice in the video the mustang always has the m3 beat until the end then the m3 catches up so maybe the m3 has more top end than the mustang.

Post by **ttocs** » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:28 am

eulogious wrote:All joking aside, the new stang hit it out of the park for sure, but was it a grand slam, I don't really think so. By the time you spend the money to upgrade the stang to try to compete with the bimmer, you have really narrowed down the price difference.
It was a good watch as well, thanks for the links!

ah did you see the vids? It kept up with the M just fine, infact it beat it in the dragstrip(after 5-6 ties). It doesn't get much more even, maybe a small suspesion/brake upgrade and it would have been dead evon on the track, if not better.