Toyota, honda, and What? Best quality cars

[stipud]

What are you driving Tom? There isn't much out there that can dust a WRX. Maybe some highend $45K BMW's.... If you put the $$$ difference into the WRX's engine/tranny there isn't ANYTHING that can hang. There is an STi that only has about $10K into the motor and smashes on Viper's and Corvett's........

I have a Saab 9-5. The same modest tuning done to the WRX (exhaust + ECU), even with my baby stock turbo, has brought me from 170 up to 300hp. Changing the turbo and injectors could get me to 400hp, but at that point I would want to improve the bottom end as well, just to be safe (the same would apply for a WRX).

[Mackenzie]

Im not comparing it to when my car was modded. Modded or not, it runs circles around the camry, performance wise. Not even close. I hate driving that thing.. I need a car that has a little guts atleast

Have you driven the new Camry yet? Car and Driver rated it #2 in their "Best performance between $20 and $25k" article last year:

9.) 2007 Pontiac G6 GT 3.9, 2007 Saturn Aura XR
8.) 2007 Chevrolet Cobalt SS Supercharged
7.) 2007 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT
6.) 2007 Volkswagen GTI
5.) 2007 Saturn Ion Red Line
4.) 2007 Nissan Altima 3.5 SE
3.) 2007 Mazdaspeed 3
2.) 2007 Toyota Camry V6
1.) 2007 Subaru Impreza WRX

It actually had the fastest 1/4 mile time (under 14.3), and only lost out compared to the WRX in handling.

Also, it's V6 has 270hp, compared to the 250hp V8 engine in the 2007 crown vic police interceptor (civilian version has 220-240)

NOpe, not the new camry. Im comparing my car to her 03 camry. The new ones look okay. I know for a fact that it wont have that smooth ride quality as the vic though ( air suspension), which also works great when you are carrying alot of people, or a heavy load in the trunk. While the camry will be sitting on the ground under a few full sized men sitting in the car. Either way, I like the camrys, they are decent, but in no way more reliable than my cv. Its been running far better than her car, with way more miles on it. But back to the point, yes the civilian model lacks hp badly, but it makes up decenly in torque. Supposedly they are supposed to be doing some changes with it, next year or so, so we will see if it gets a power boost. Either way, both companies make reliable cars.. Look both even made it on consumer reports best used cars. The lincoln towncar is mentioned, which is the panther platform, same as the cv.

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article. ... tid=435706

[Mackenzie]

What are you driving Tom? There isn't much out there that can dust a WRX. Maybe some highend $45K BMW's.... If you put the $$$ difference into the WRX's engine/tranny there isn't ANYTHING that can hang. There is an STi that only has about $10K into the motor and smashes on Viper's and Corvett's........

If you put 10k into any motor, you will smash vetts, and vipers

[Bfowler]

fuzzy, check out the "post your ride section...toms car can hang

mack...thats a cute article....but every time i'm in a rental car it reminds me why i wont drive an amrican car.

they just werent designed for people that love to drive....just my opinon.

i think i will be rolling mid-90's bmws til till the world runs out of gas

[stipud]

Interesting link you posted there Mac. Have a look at the ratio of "imports" to "domestics" in the Best list, then do the same in the Worst list. I wasn't expecting it to be THAT bad

The only Japanese cars on the Worst list are the Armada and Titan, which are built domestically. But Japanese brands make up 90% of the "best" list!

[stipud]

It's funny that VW 4th gens are so insanely popular, despite how they have been proven to be insanely unreliable. It's good to see that they are not recommended, according to that MSN list. Just goes to show you, that people are willing to suck lemons all day, just to get the right "image".

My friend's new Beetle went up in flames on the highway, and that's not the first time I've heard of that happening either. I remember Mastiff posting about a similar issue with his friend, not to mention the hundreds of reports I find on google.

It seems that all this bad press has made them step up their game for the 5th gen. I am much more impressed with their direct injected engines, and apparently the reliability is much improved as well.

[Mackenzie]

Yea im not going to lie, the domestics did horribly. Mainly due to chevys crappy quality on some of their cars. I dont really care though, as ford did very well.

[twisted]

Yep, the 4Runner that fuzzy owns has the 3.slow V6. I used to have a 2 door just like his but it was wayyyyy to under powered for me. I then moved up to the newer body style and it had a 3.4 V6 in it that did pretty good. Now they come with a 4.0 V6 (same as in the Tacoma and FJ Cruiser) and an optional V8. This engine is damn nice! Fuzzy's 3.slow V6 will do ok with some modding, but right out of the box is was not near enough power for me.

As far as comparing a Camry to your modded out Crown Vic (With a HO V8), well, might as well compare a Ford Pinto to a Toyota Supra!!

the answer to all these issues is the same.

LS1 swap

NO NOW its fixed

[twisted]

Funny you should mention the gas mileage of your truck. When me and C picked it up the guy had a Nissan Titan in the driveway. He was complaining that your truck, even with all of the mods, got better gas mileage than the Titan! I think if your truck was 4 wheel drive he would rather have it!

LOL thats pretty damend funny......... you know the nissan was fun for wheelin but the best i could get out of it was 112 mpg and it had a 6 cyl. plus more thing went wrong with that truck in the 6 months i owned it than i had go wrong in the blue suburban we drove to your place in 5 years

[Rold Gold]

DYNO slip? And the 9-5 is between 10-15k more(2008 9-5 $37k base) than the WRX(2008 $25k base) too. Put 8-10k into the WRX and yer 500hp+. The Legacy GT LIMITED B-spec is ALSO less exspensive. Watch the video of the STi vs Shelby GT on subaru's site.

I'm not trying to argue but it's HARD to beat what Subaru is putting out these days. American car companies just can't compete. I have to say that the first Focas has impressed me. My buddy bought one when they first hit the streets and he's beat the shit out of it let me tell ya. No major problems and still running strong. I hate the new models but Ford built a good answer to the civic and VW hatchbacks.


GODZILLA is king..................

[Bfowler]

the WRX is just a motor and all wheel drive...after working on a few...it would take a lot of dynamat to make it a daily driver imo.

the saab is fairly luxury oriented, plus in my eyes...buying ANY new car is a waste. the saab is a steal after its about 5 years old...

so's a suby though/

and an e36

[Mackenzie]

DYNO slip? And the 9-5 is between 10-15k more(2008 9-5 $37k base) than the WRX(2008 $25k base) too. Put 8-10k into the WRX and yer 500hp+. The Legacy GT LIMITED B-spec is ALSO less exspensive. Watch the video of the STi vs Shelby GT on subaru's site.

I'm not trying to argue but it's HARD to beat what Subaru is putting out these days. American car companies just can't compete. I have to say that the first Focas has impressed me. My buddy bought one when they first hit the streets and he's beat the shit out of it let me tell ya. No major problems and still running strong. I hate the new models but Ford built a good answer to the civic and VW hatchbacks.


GODZILLA is king..................

Yea they put up subarus best offering to fords 300 hp gt. Their is always something out there faster, but in all honesty, who still owns the drag strips? Ford and chevy As for the focus, the new ones have been selling very very well. Nothing I would be interested in, but they are doing well.

[Bfowler]

Yea they put up subarus best offering to fords 300 hp gt. Their is always something out there faster, but in all honesty, who still owns the drag strips? Ford and chevy As for the focus, the new ones have been selling very very well. Nothing I would be interested in, but they are doing well.

mack so are you saying its not fair that the mustang had to race a car with similar horsepower ratings. (in a engine 2 liters smaller) the sti beat the ford on the fords turf (dragstrip)....you think the ford would even have a prayer once the road bends...or worse...on gravel?

[stipud]

DYNO slip? And the 9-5 is between 10-15k more(2008 9-5 $37k base) than the WRX(2008 $25k base) too. Put 8-10k into the WRX and yer 500hp+. The Legacy GT LIMITED B-spec is ALSO less exspensive. Watch the video of the STi vs Shelby GT on subaru's site.

I'm not trying to argue but it's HARD to beat what Subaru is putting out these days. American car companies just can't compete. I have to say that the first Focas has impressed me. My buddy bought one when they first hit the streets and he's beat the shit out of it let me tell ya. No major problems and still running strong. I hate the new models but Ford built a good answer to the civic and VW hatchbacks.


GODZILLA is king..................

Why would you tune a new Saab? Why pay gobs of money just to discard the warranty? When you count depreciation, the Saabs are MUCH cheaper than WRXes of the same year, at least in Canada. Some bagged-on ricer 02 WRX will easily go for $17k up here, while a mint 02 9-5 Aero will cost you around $15k. I would never tune a new car of any brand... that's just silly

I'm not saying that the Saab is the be-all-end-all of car tuning either, just that there are many more cars than the WRX that are capable of high numbers with few mods (pretty much ANY stock turbo car). Hell, the same goes for lots of domestics with emission-restricted V8's... huge power gains just by swapping exhaust and a chip. $10k tuning into damn near any car will easily make them a force to be reckoned with.

On the whole, the domestic brands seem to be catering to Point-A-To-Point-B drivers. People who like their big wafty suspension, soft steering, plush bench seats, and 15 cupholders. Like it or not, this is a HUGE market. As much as the performance enthusiasts bitch and moan about the lack of "good" cars, they need to realize they aren't the target market for most brands.

Judging a manufacturer's worth based solely on performance, when they were designed with very different goals in mind, is a bit silly. You should judge a car based on how well it meets the goals it was built under instead. And when recommending a car, choose one based on the goals of the driver. Too often I see people suggesting a performance car to someone who just needs a cheap old Accord to get to work and back.

As for other new cars in WRX territory, the VW GTI, Mazdaspeed 3, Mini Cooper S, etc. are all very good cars as well. Heck, as I pointed out above, a stock Camry is faster in the quarter mile.

Regarding your Ford Focus point, yes, I was very happy when they brought that car here as well. Ford of Europe does some amazing work with their cars, and I am very happy to see that the US division is paying lots of attention to them lately.

If you've seen the new 2010 Taurus images that were leaked, it's basically a Ford Mondeo...


And compare the current Euro focus...


To the US offering ...

[Bfowler]

wow...the europe focus looks 100x better...and i'm sure would destroy it.

shame.

see mack, maybe thats fords problem...they wont sell me thier good cars....

[Mackenzie]

Yea they put up subarus best offering to fords 300 hp gt. Their is always something out there faster, but in all honesty, who still owns the drag strips? Ford and chevy As for the focus, the new ones have been selling very very well. Nothing I would be interested in, but they are doing well.

mack so are you saying its not fair that the mustang had to race a car with similar horsepower ratings. (in a engine 2 liters smaller) the sti beat the ford on the fords turf (dragstrip)....you think the ford would even have a prayer once the road bends...or worse...on gravel?

They both roughly have the same power, the wrx is way lighter, and awd. Ofcourse its going to win. The gt wasnt really made to compete with that. That is subarus best offering. Their is still about 10 diff mustangs better than the gt. Two totaly different cars, for different purposes..

[Rold Gold]

A striaght-line bullet sux.......... If it doesn't handle well and ride smooth then hp is wasted.

Mac- AEM built a 7-second Civic 4cyl. The turbo on it would suk a small child into the turbine but that kid shouldn't be on the track anyhow.. And what does Ford have that can compete with the WRX/Legacy in the same price range? The 300hp mustang is more powerful than the STi...

[Mackenzie]

Other countrys seem to always have the better offerings. This is somthing I dont understand. Just like the new falcon in australia. It has a 360 twin turbo v6, that would brush off most things around here, and a 5.4 v8 400 hp option... I wish ford would bring it here, but they wont.. They give the other countrys the better models..

[stipud]

The STI is also $10k more than the GT

[stipud]

Other countrys seem to always have the better offerings. This is somthing I dont understand. Just like the new falcon in australia. It has a 360 twin turbo v6, that would brush off most things around here, and a 5.4 v8 400 hp option... I wish ford would bring it here, but they wont.. They give the other countrys the better models..

It's all about market demand. Australia and Europe demand fast, attractive cars. If Ford sold the same ball-less cars in Germany, they would get laughed out of the market. So in response they have to make 200+hp Focuses (Focii?) to compete.

Frankly it's just the typical American Point-A-To-Point-B mindset that gets us the shitty cars. If you want nicer cars to come over here, try changing society instead

[Mackenzie]

The cars still arent shitty, they are just inferior to the austrailian counterparts.. Same goes for car audio. For instance, all the pioneer counterpark decks in the euro countrys are always better.

[Rold Gold]

The STI is also $10k more than the GT

NO. Thats the SHELBY GT that they put it up against.

[stipud]

The cars still arent shitty, they are just inferior to the austrailian counterparts.. Same goes for car audio. For instance, all the pioneer counterpark decks in the euro countrys are always better.

Same thing... In general, Europeans demand better quality, while Americans demand lower prices. This is why Europe gets the better decks.

If you want the good cars and decks, you should move to europe

[Mackenzie]

I like driving on the right side of the road. I will just have to pay more, and have it shipped here.

[Bfowler]

The STI is also $10k more than the GT

NO. Thats the SHELBY GT that they put it up against.

its, not the GT500 though is what macks getting at. the Shelby "GT" they race the STI against is just the mustang GT with the 300hp aluminum 4.6