Anyone ever use ZMAX? Any Good??

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5.9Limited
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Anyone ever use ZMAX? Any Good??

Post by 5.9Limited »

whats up all...my jeeps in the shop this week and my mechanic who I really trust reccomended this ZMAX lubrication additive for my engine. I looked online and saw good reviews, and again, my mechanic is a family freind that my dad grew up with...a good guy. curious to know if any of you have used it and what results you got. I'll be putting mine in the car tomrrw or thursday...
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Post by stipud »

Generally I don't trust additives. If you've got sludge, AutoRX is good... otherwise I only use a good full synth.

For all things oil related I check BITOG; they know more about oil and additives than you can imagine. Here's the first thread that came up in google... may be some info for you there:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... 54&fpart=1
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Post by 5.9Limited »

I read ton about this stuff before I bought it and its supposted to match up to anything out there...Im not worried about engine sludge at all, Im the second owner of my vehicle and the original owner was just as anal as I am...only full sythetics for all fluids its entire life...premium filters etc...Im just looking to at alittle extra protection and give it a little cleaning inside as well...I figured for $40 bucks, given the reviews i read it was worht a shot...and by no means do consider myself a fan of additives.
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Post by dwnrodeo »

In my experience, if you've run an engine on full synthetic its entire life, you're not going to have very much sludge. I helped my dad fully rebuild a chevy 350 a few years ago and he ran full synthetic in it. 5-6 years later we dropped the oil pan to replace the oil pan gasket, and the crank, cylinder walls, everything looked almost as nice as the day we rebuilt it.
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Post by mr tibbs »

I hear there is a down side to running full synthetic. Supposedly it does not condition the gaskets and seals like conventional oil. Thus they dry up and crack with time. I don't know how much truth there is to this, just what I hear. :wink:
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Post by stipud »

mr tibbs wrote:I hear there is a down side to running full synthetic. Supposedly it does not condition the gaskets and seals like conventional oil. Thus they dry up and crack with time. I don't know how much truth there is to this, just what I hear. :wink:
Nah... the rumors that synth causes leaks are misguided at best. If anything, synth cleans up the sludge left by dino oils, which were previously blocking leaky dry gaskets.

Synth is the shit.
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Post by 5.9Limited »

yeah whoever said there's a down side to running synthetic was cracked. I run Mobil 1 oil and filter, and royal purple in my diffs and transmission. I saw a commercial that made me laugh today for Castrol's new synthetic. They claim it protects 8 times better than Mobil 1 against friction and engine wear...here's the thing ...mobil 1 is guaranteed 100% effective against friction, thermal breakdown, and engine wear for 15,000 miles at a time...so the castrol stuff protects 800% effective??? give me a break.
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Post by stipud »

Well, Mobil 1 used to be unbeatable. However, after they made a name for themselves, they cheapened their "recipe" and relied on their name and marketing to carry them forward. You can still find certain good types (their Turbo Diesel Truck 0w40 is one of my favorites), but in general their regular stuff is not nearly as good as it used to be. The "100% effective" is simply their marketing claim... there is no oil that 100% stops friction and heat for ANY mileage... that would defy physics.

Saab tried out 15000 mile intervals in their engines with Mobil 1, and they ended up sludging horribly. Saab even had to offer an 8 year extension on the engine warranty for any sludge related issues because it was so prevalent. For the most part, long oil change intervals are complete bullshit marketed towards people being lazy. I would never recommend pushing over 5000 miles regardless of the kind of oil.

The Castrol Syntec that is made in Germany (like the euro formula 0w30) is indeed far superior to current Mobil 1. However, Castrol also sells cheaper versions which are labeled as "synthetic", but still use a dino oil with a high additive pack. Just like Amsoil or Redline, Royal Purple isn't bad, but you do pay 2-3 times as much for marketing on an otherwise average oil.

A cheap synth that is tough to beat is the Shell Rotella-T. Lots of the Saab guys have started using them, and they are anal enough to send their oil filters off to BlackStone labs for analysis. One guy reported getting substantially less wear after 8000 miles compared to M1 0w30 on only 2000 miles. And if you're lucky enough to live in Canada, the Esso XD3 synthetic (available at WalMart and bulk Esso dealers) is EXTREMELY good for the money, and near half the cost of other brands.

Generally, I will take numerical oil analysis data over any marketing claims. So if I'm curious about an oil, I check BITOG first, since they rely on the numerical scientific data analysis, rather than mythology.
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Post by freshkryp69 »

IMO..the best oil you can run is royal purple racing oil...it's worth atleast 7hp over mobil1 on the dyno,all by reducing friction,ive seen it first hand...if you run a flat tappet cam then I would run a bottle of GM zink additive (eos) at break-in of the engine(first start up)...it keeps the lifter face from scruffing and wiping out the cam lobe and sending crap all through the engine..comp eliminator engines and nascar engines that run over 9000-12000 rpm do just fine with R/P and the bearings look great after tear down...
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Post by stipud »

I wouldn't use horsepower as the deciding factor in anything but a pure race car. I will give up 5hp for a more viscous and better protecting oil.

While improving horsepower, race oils like RP and Redline only perform marginally in wear tests. Less viscosity = less resistance = higher horsepower, but it can also mean it offers less protection as well.
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Post by 5.9Limited »

interesting stuff for sure...its funny how you can hear different stuff from different sources...I was actually very close to being an amsoil dealer about a year ago...I'll probably go through with it because the oil is great stuff and youget it pretty affordably as a dealer.
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Post by freshkryp69 »

I understand what your thinking STIPUD and agree to a certain point, but....the R/P that was used was 20-50w, not a water thin 0 or 20w...the mobile1 that was used was 20-50w...
I graduated from the school of automotive machinist in '97 and during that time we compaired several racing specific oils just to see if their was a difference in HP between brands, all us students had our favorites. mine was pennzoil dino oil..lol
this engine was a students project engine (377 sbc) making a decent 600ish HP and rev'd to the moon..no more than 5 to 10 minutes between oil changes and no changes in lash. when we used the R/P.. a 7HP peak gain.. and I was sold!! the dyno doesnt lie...and if you were present at the time to witness, you would be sold on R/P to..Im sure their are a few other oils that are as good as R/P now...but back then it beat them all...by reducing friction, and thats the key to more HP when compairing oils.
if you ever have a custom engine built (you might have ??) do the A-B test when your on the dyno and make no other changes besides oil and youll see the gain in HP/protection...then R/P will probaly have a new customer. :wink:

less friction(on parts)=less resistance(to move parts)=better protection(for parts)=more HP
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Post by 5.9Limited »

I feel you on that one fresh... I'll probably go to RP oil for my next change since I already run RP everywhere else...

I don't have a custom built engine but its not bad...I have a 5.9L mopar 360 with an intake, exhaust, ignition system upgrades, low temp tstat, and some... its running around 350 hp and 400 ft.lbs right now...my next add ons are an msd ignition, and headers...hoping to break 400hp this year :)
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Post by stipud »

I have seen many tests indicating that R/P provides higher horsepower, so I do not deny that. For example: http://my.prostreetonline.com/t2540.htm

Even though you compared 20w50 vs 20w50... 50 is just a range of oil weights. Some are heavier than others. I know R/P is generally on the lightest end of the range. A less viscous oil is easier to displace, so there is less resistance on the moving parts, meaning you get more horsepower.

Yet that doesn't necessarily mean it immediately offers better protection, simply due to "less friction". There are many more factors than that. Protection comes from more than just friction reduction; the additive packs in the oil make a big difference. For example, high ZDDP oils like the M1 TDT I use are awesome for cleaning sludge. Other additives keep your oil from shearing down to a thinner weight over time.

I have specifically heard complaints about R/P 5w30 thinning out to a 20 weight after only 2000 miles. Although in many other cases, certain weights of R/P barely sheared after 12000 miles. As far as the wear tests, many are good, and many are bad. Seems to be a bit of a mixed bag depending on the engine and oil weight.

http://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Att ... purple+uoa

Now I'm not saying R/P is a bad oil by any means. I think it is GREAT stuff, and wouldn't hesitate to put it in my car if it was given to me. All I am saying is that it is marketed very aggressively, and they charge a premium because of that. There are oils that offer as good or better protection for much cheaper, if you don't mind losing 5hp. If it's a race car, by all means I would probably run R/P, but for a daily driver, I am more concerned with overall protection, and what will keep my engine going the longest.



And 5.9, if you're looking for a good additive, check out AutoRX. It's pretty much the defacto standard for cleaning sludged engines, and keeping them that way. And most importantly, it's VERY SAFE to use. If your engine isn't sludged, you can still run low amounts with every fill just for the added cleaning power.
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Post by reallyxxxxxxloud »

lol This thread made me laugh... R/P DOESN'T PROVIDE MORE PROTECTION!!! just because it has less friction. If that was the case MOTUL would shit all over R/P then. As it will provide 1.6% HP increase over R/P. The reason I am saying this is because Motul use the older Ester Technology it shears/breaks down quicker than R/P but is a better product if changed out within less miles. Penrite will outlast nearly all of these as far as shear quality. I also laugh when things like detergents (how well it cleans- absorbs the carbon/sludge) and fuel absorption are not looked at. God we tried a new oil "Quaker State" in our drag car. (454 chev 671blower) we always had fuel problems early on in the setup (now no longer a problem) as it always dumped fuel into the block. We were using Pennzoil and when we changed to Quaker State we lost our first engine. The oil didn't absorb the fuel and flushed the bearings dry!!!

I like R/P, Motul, Penrite and Redline all evenly for their own reasons- I'd look at each oil differently for each car as they all have different needs...
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Post by jbondox »

all that shit is marketing. mobile 1 synthetic. lets see what uses it...

McLaren SLR, C63, all black series AMG's, all AMG's... all Mercedes... Oh yeah, Porsche GT2, GT3, GT3RS, 997TT... uhm.. all the Porsche's...

don't be fooled by marketing crap, and the worst thing is a tech who believes in that crap also... a real mechanic would tel you to drain and run some synthetic.

if you only understood the 6.2 AMG motor (63) what it goes through, how it was made, the concept (funny since it started on a napkin) you would all start to see the real world beyond BS marketing hype.

The worst part about it, is that you look at the domestic market and think what crap we have to offer! I blame it on the engineers and UAW

GM with the vette is the closest to anything quality from our market.
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