Market Flood

Post by **Eric D** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:02 pm

There has been a lot of heated debate over the "New PG". I just wanted to add that I hope they are respectful of their dealers and try to get a dealer base and marketing base going with these new products.

I could be wrong, but if I remember right it was as if overnight the Rsd line flooded eBay from every direction. If in the next few weeks I suddenly see eBay again flooded with these new products, I will have no real hope for the company's future.

Whoring out products might get you some short term profits, but no long term following.

Post by **stipud** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:20 pm

Why not be an online brand? Decent car audio retailers are as good as gone... replaced by soulless uneducated big box corporations. Internet sales are a great way to make ends meet, as long as you aren't undercutting your dealers as has happened in the past. Especially with a smaller brand like PG that isn't available everywhere, being able to buy online is a major bonus for those of us who don't have a local retailer.

For me, if PG wasn't available online I would have never bought it. The entire reason I got into the brand in the first place is because the Ti10D's which were $500 locally were $250 for a PAIR online.

NewOldStock · Post by **NewOldStock** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:19 pm

stipud wrote:Why not be an online brand? Decent car audio retailers are as good as gone... replaced by soulless uneducated big box corporations. Internet sales are a great way to make ends meet, as long as you aren't undercutting your dealers as has happened in the past. Especially with a smaller brand like PG that isn't available everywhere, being able to buy online is a major bonus for those of us who don't have a local retailer.

For me, if PG wasn't available online I would have never bought it. The entire reason I got into the brand in the first place is because the Ti10D's which were $500 locally were $250 for a PAIR online.

x2

I appreciate the B&M stores position, but the last few times I have gone into one (Car Toys (fucking joke)) and Stereo King they both referred to a "system" as adding a pair of 12's to the factory speakers in my wife's Subaru - which as it turns out had an 8w per speaker output... nice balance there.

I do think PG needs to get into places like Car Toys - since thats where 90% of those not in the know will go to have a system done. The problem is, a vast majority of the systems put together by those places are just crap. poorly done, poorly planned, poorly tuned, etc... and people always blame the equipment instead of the install.

The key has to be not undercutting their dealers. If I can get something for the same price online as I can local - I will do local every time. Easier to deal with when there is a problem.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:47 pm

I agree on not undercutting the dealers. There has been talk on the phorum for a long time about the "grey market" for PG stuff for quite some time. One sure fire way to alienate your B&M dealers is to undercut them online.

Seems to me however that AAMP has a much better dealer network already in place than Rodin ever had and I expect AAMP to leverage those existing agreements to their advantage with the PG brand.

I guess the question comes down to: How does AAMP currently handle online sales and B&M dealers with their other brands?

denim · Post by **denim** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:29 pm

There is nothing wrong with Authorized dealers. As they are required by NDA to sell at or above a pricing set by the manufacturer. What that means is the online authorized dealers are not undercutting the brick and mortar shops, that is unless the shops are jacking the prices to an abusive level.

The issues are the transhippers, the huge wholesalers, unauthorized online dealers (onlinecarstereo, sonicelectronix, dealercostcaraudio, woofersetc, and so on), and the ebay "dealers". Many companies do little to nothing about these people as they don't care because they get their money regardless if it is from an ebay wholesaler who is going to sell it for only a few dollars more, or a major distributor for a number of brick and mortar shops who is selling with a large margin. So it will be something to watch to see if AAMP will do something to fight it. Take JL for example, they are very against these types of sales as they know it destroys the value of the product and hurts the dealer network.

Post by **Bfowler** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:38 pm

totally agree. authorized deals online is fine as long as they stick to the MAP

even JL is on crutchfield

Irongoats · Post by **Irongoats** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:08 pm

I bought my PG from online because they were hard to get here in Vegas or I just couldn't find them. Fry's started selling the RSD line not the upper class but now they don't at all. Hopefully they'll be more authorized dealers soon so we may get the new items. Don't hold your breath for these new items no making it on Ebay that's a givin'.

oldschoolfan · Post by **oldschoolfan** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:16 pm

This is a tough one. I am all for buying our favorite product at a local retailer, as in brick and mortar. The concerns about hack shops selling it is legitimate. From my past experience PG was high end and very exclusive. You had to go to RKST, the "cool" store to get it. PG needs to have some control over who sells and installs their product, if installed by a shop and not the consumer. The dealers need to be properly informed and educated on all aspects of the product for quality installs. The dealers need to be updated regularly with changes and modifications to the lines. The dealers also need good tech support and communication with PG HQ. These points will help the shop educate the final consumer on how to use the product within it's design also. PG should also offer the extended warranty of old, when installed by a "qualified" PG installer.

Online sales need to be available. Everything is now purchasable online. No seller of goods wants to eliminate the "shop at home only" individual. It would definitely need to be well regulated though, again as stated by you's above, to not undercut the walk in shops.

In closing, a "Proper Balance" is needed.

Now I am really closing.
They appear to be interested in our opinions, let's keep giving them to them.

Post by **Eric D** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:48 pm

Well, maybe I did not make my point correctly. I am not saying anything about just "online", I am specifically talking about eBay and transshipping as previously stated.

The PG recipe of the past few years has been out of control transshipping and if you guys think that is good then great. We can all sit back and watch PG fall to nothing, as that is what will happen.

Post by **Bfowler** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:10 pm

^no, i dont think anyone thinks that works for business. that was the beginning of the demise of pg 12ish years ago imo.

i have been buying as a dealer from pg since i was 16...and when i could buy gear CHEAPER on ebay then direct from pg with my discount...you know there are problems.

one idea is whore out gear that dealers can't move on ebay though

Pillow · Post by **Pillow** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:46 pm

The way I see it PG has two paths to go down.

1. Sell the product anyway you can. Volume, volume, and volume. Let the discount stores/vendors have at it. Yes, this dilutes the brand, but you move WAY more product and in turn make more $. The marketing department would have to be on top of things to keep PG in the press and give product to the right people to review to make sure their name was on the right cars... I seriously doubt Steve Meade is paying for amps or subs at this point!

2. Accept lower volume and build a niche product that the B&M stores can sell. Also get on board with reputable authorized on line dealers. There is no way to compete without online sales, period.

Lets look at how Stinger is handled now though... You can buy the products at B&M shops or online at discount shops. So I imagine that the AAMP distribution chain will be similar to what we see in the current brands owned by AAMP. If anything AAMP can push PG product on vendors who currently carry Stinger! That is what I would do. It is a common supply chain marketing move.

All that said I am sure AAMP will do a better job than Rodin!

vwguy3 · Post by **vwguy3** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:05 pm

If they really want to sell something special they are going to have to stick with the brick and mortar stores. It will make people go to the stores and buy an amp from someone in there own town. Support your local economy. The car shops aren't making a ton of money just on the amp, they are making the money that keeps the doors open on the installs, wire kits, etc... It is so easy to just buy online and save a few bucks. thats the difference today is that poeple can do that instead of buying from the shop down the street.

I hope PG doesn't do any type of online stuff or if they do, they better be very strict on what and how much it gets sold for.

Thanks
Justind

waynehead · Post by **waynehead** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:15 pm

but i dont have anywhere within 100 miles that is likely to carry PG. dont do me like this lol. i dont mess with ebay, but i buy my ID stuff from woofersetc.com which is an authorized dealer and i think they are keeping a decent fan base. i dont see anything wrong with one authorized internet dealer for the people that dont live in areas where stuff is readily available. there is a place about 10 miles away that sell JL but I dont see them adding PG to the roster. Maybe if Pg was to talk to them. I dunno.

NewOldStock · Post by **NewOldStock** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:10 am

vwguy3 wrote:If they really want to sell something special they are going to have to stick with the brick and mortar stores. It will make people go to the stores and buy an amp from someone in there own town. Support your local economy. The car shops aren't making a ton of money just on the amp, they are making the money that keeps the doors open on the installs, wire kits, etc... It is so easy to just buy online and save a few bucks. thats the difference today is that poeple can do that instead of buying from the shop down the street.

I hope PG doesn't do any type of online stuff or if they do, they better be very strict on what and how much it gets sold for.

Thanks
Justind

Times change. Business models MUST change with them

PG HAS to sell online. The key is not cutting the B&M's throats to do it... Honda doesnt make a mint on every car, they make a little per car... and sell millions of them - and they dont give a damn who sells them for what price as long as THEY get their money first. Does that make honda's worth less? cause last I checked, they held value better than most others... and I can buy a Honda from Costco as well as online, both sight unseen - just like an amp.

B&M's HAVE to make their money in places other than hardware... and chances are good that volume is the key to that success as well, because trying to make a mint on every install is just going to push more people into the garage of the kid down the street that will do the same job, maybe not as nice, for a 12-pack of beer.

It might suck, but that is the reality of todays world. Its changed from technology being expensive and labor being cheap, to labor being expensive and technology being cheap.

Post by **ttocs** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:46 am

stipud wrote: Especially with a smaller brand like PG that isn't available everywhere, being able to buy online is a major bonus for those of us who don't have a local retailer.

For me, if PG wasn't available online I would have never bought it. The entire reason I got into the brand in the first place is because the Ti10D's which were $500 locally were $250 for a PAIR online.

smaller brand? I thought the post started off saying that ebay was nearly spammed with all the last generation pg stuff so I don't think it is a smaller brand now? It use to be a smaller brand but that was long ago and I am not sure why you think aamp owning it will help. I am not sure that I am use to hearing about aamp taking care of its customers in the personal way that pg use to which is why I got into it. They use to be happy to customize an amp or go well out of its way to repair something if it was broken and I will miss that. I hope they can protect themselfs and thier dealers enough so that they cannot be undercut by half online or something is wrong. I think crutchfield is one of the few respectable places that will keep it fairly legit for the B&Ms.

Post by **mhyde71** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:09 am

my .02...
I work at a wooden canoe mfg/dealer- the largest in the world now that Old Towne doesnt make wooden canoes like they used to-
we (American Traders), would/will sell apprx 300 wooden canoes a year...
we also are a distributor for gransfors-bruks axes.
OKAY you're asking what am i leading up to...

well there is a site call shopatron- where mfg's can sell there products "direct" somewhat- of course shopatron is making a cut- but it allows us (american traders) as a mfg to offer/sell goods from other mfg's that we would not have gotten or lost from the living room shopper.

We get loads of sales through shopatron.com, and it has a geographical component to it- someone in wisconsin is looking for "the one" from PG. he would go to PG's web site (in fact i think JL does this/uses shopatron)- BUT what i am getting at is that which ever retailer has "The one" in stock, is allowed to bid for the sale. The closest retailer to the customers location that places a bid (claiming he has it in stock and ready to ship) he gets the sale.
so as ppl on the net post up and express that they are looking for a hunters axe from gransfors-bruks- and providing we have in stock, and we are the closest to customer we get the sale.

I dunno- just seems to work in this case- and perhaps could for PG as well
like i said i believe JL uses Shopatron - but i think they use it for sales direct from them- and not as a tool for their distributors but could be wrong- BUT having PG a part of or using Shopatron- that would be an incentive for B&M places to carry product- b/c they could/would be able to sell on line - at MSRP and only MSRP

not sure if i explained it all so so clearly, but maybe someone from marketing should look into shopatron and how it may/might work for them

mat

vwguy3 · Post by **vwguy3** » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:33 am

mhyde71 wrote:my .02...
I work at a wooden canoe mfg/dealer- the largest in the world now that Old Towne doesnt make wooden canoes like they used to-
we (American Traders), would/will sell apprx 300 wooden canoes a year...
we also are a distributor for gransfors-bruks axes.
OKAY you're asking what am i leading up to...

well there is a site call shopatron- where mfg's can sell there products "direct" somewhat- of course shopatron is making a cut- but it allows us (american traders) as a mfg to offer/sell goods from other mfg's that we would not have gotten or lost from the living room shopper.

We get loads of sales through shopatron.com, and it has a geographical component to it- someone in wisconsin is looking for "the one" from PG. he would go to PG's web site (in fact i think JL does this/uses shopatron)- BUT what i am getting at is that which ever retailer has "The one" in stock, is allowed to bid for the sale. The closest retailer to the customers location that places a bid (claiming he has it in stock and ready to ship) he gets the sale.
so as ppl on the net post up and express that they are looking for a hunters axe from gransfors-bruks- and providing we have in stock, and we are the closest to customer we get the sale.

I dunno- just seems to work in this case- and perhaps could for PG as well
like i said i believe JL uses Shopatron - but i think they use it for sales direct from them- and not as a tool for their distributors but could be wrong- BUT having PG a part of or using Shopatron- that would be an incentive for B&M places to carry product- b/c they could/would be able to sell on line - at MSRP and only MSRP

not sure if i explained it all so so clearly, but maybe someone from marketing should look into shopatron and how it may/might work for them

mat

I think what your saying is kind of what I was thinking about after I posted first time. I know there are going to be some times when a PG store dealer isn't going to be close to someone. thats just going to happen. But what if the only online dealer is PG and if someone can't go a dealer, they could buy at the PG website and then the closest dealer to the buyer would get a cut of the sale. Just as if he had went to the store.