PG will have NO internet sales... piss-poor decision IMO

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Post by ttocs »

what about the possibility of setting one of the more responsible of us up as a supplier to handle a once-a-year phorum sale or occasional sales to proven members. The specialty people that are die hard fans, not to every joe that joins and hears about it?
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Post by AAMP217 »

Pillow wrote:What kind of volume does AAMP plan on running for the PG amps?

... I would think selling through the internet is almost necessary to keep the sales volume at a viable level.
We have a great marketing strategy in place to make Phoenix Gold a successful line. We have very strong pillars in our company that will keep Phoenix Gold viable for a long time. We have been successful with Stinger, PAC, AAMP hardware, Best Kits & Harnesses, SoundQuest, etc... and they will continue to keep us successful. As I have said in my previously posts, we are taking a different approach, it is by no means new, it just has not been used in many, many years.
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Post by AAMP217 »

ttocs wrote:what about the possibility of setting one of the more responsible of us up as a supplier to handle a once-a-year phorum sale or occasional sales to proven members. The specialty people that are die hard fans, not to every joe that joins and hears about it?
At some point I am sure we will have a forum group buy or authorized factory direct program for forum members, we have to. We can not ignore these requests but it will be at a later time. The authorized dealer network is our first priority.
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Post by ttocs »

AAMP217 wrote:
ttocs wrote:what about the possibility of setting one of the more responsible of us up as a supplier to handle a once-a-year phorum sale or occasional sales to proven members. The specialty people that are die hard fans, not to every joe that joins and hears about it?
At some point I am sure we will have a forum group buy or authorized factory direct program for forum members, we have to. We can not ignore these requests but it will be at a later time. The authorized dealer network is our first priority.
Don't get me wrong I am on your side, protect your dealers and let the dealers protect the people the way they use to do.... Just trying to figure out something that could make everyone happy. MAybe name one lucky retailer the award of phorum supplier? Don't know if it would really be a good thing for that retailer but..........
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Post by AAMP217 »

ttocs wrote:
AAMP217 wrote:
ttocs wrote:what about the possibility of setting one of the more responsible of us up as a supplier to handle a once-a-year phorum sale or occasional sales to proven members. The specialty people that are die hard fans, not to every joe that joins and hears about it?
At some point I am sure we will have a forum group buy or authorized factory direct program for forum members, we have to. We can not ignore these requests but it will be at a later time. The authorized dealer network is our first priority.
Don't get me wrong I am on your side, protect your dealers and let the dealers protect the people the way they use to do.... Just trying to figure out something that could make everyone happy. MAybe name one lucky retailer the award of phorum supplier? Don't know if it would really be a good thing for that retailer but..........
I appreciate your understanding of what we are doing. People throw the term "old-school" around a lot in car audio and it was used extensively when Phoenix Gold was described by enthusiasts. So we took the enthusiasts suggestions (you guys prettty much) and took the line back to the good old days of Phoenix Gold as much as we could. This is part of it. We want you guys to be able to buy the product and we will have a solution available for guys that don't have dealers close to them.

My personal suggestion, walk into the car audio shop you like dealing with and ask them for Phoenix Gold. Tell them your story, we will tell them our story and more often then not, that dealer will end up as a Phoenix Gold dealer.
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Post by NewOldStock »

AAMP217 wrote:

My personal suggestion, walk into the car audio shop you like dealing with and ask them for Phoenix Gold. Tell them your story, we will tell them our story and more often then not, that dealer will end up as a Phoenix Gold dealer.
You mention in an earlier post that the marketing plan you have hasnt been used in a long long time... I would argue that point. Hollywood Video was employing that marketing strategy until just a year or so ago... This isnt 1992 anymore and some things have changed in regard to how consumers spend their money.

you mention in another post that all the other brands will keep Phoenix Gold viable... not that PG will make money, but that the other brands/items that AAMP sells will prop phoenix gold up. That doesnt sound like a winning long-term strategy to me.

last, you want me to walk into the dealer that I like... to try and buy PG gear, so would that be Car Toys - the cell phone experts? Outrageous Audio - where I can talk with the swap meet crowd? NBA car audio here in the couve where I can pay an extra 5k on my install if I ask the owner to sign my amps? No Thanks.

Personally, I would rather give my money to Phoenix Gold. Barring that, AAMP wont get any portion of the 1-2k a year I spend on car audio gear... Its sad really, and a vast majority of the car audio population, whether its on purpose or not, will follow suit and continue to buy other peoples products.
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Post by AAMP217 »

NewOldStock wrote:
AAMP217 wrote:

My personal suggestion, walk into the car audio shop you like dealing with and ask them for Phoenix Gold. Tell them your story, we will tell them our story and more often then not, that dealer will end up as a Phoenix Gold dealer.
You mention in an earlier post that the marketing plan you have hasnt been used in a long long time... I would argue that point. Hollywood Video was employing that marketing strategy until just a year or so ago... This isnt 1992 anymore and some things have changed in regard to how consumers spend their money.

you mention in another post that all the other brands will keep Phoenix Gold viable... not that PG will make money, but that the other brands/items that AAMP sells will prop phoenix gold up. That doesnt sound like a winning long-term strategy to me.

last, you want me to walk into the dealer that I like... to try and buy PG gear, so would that be Car Toys - the cell phone experts? Outrageous Audio - where I can talk with the swap meet crowd? NBA car audio here in the couve where I can pay an extra 5k on my install if I ask the owner to sign my amps? No Thanks.

Personally, I would rather give my money to Phoenix Gold. Barring that, AAMP wont get any portion of the 1-2k a year I spend on car audio gear... Its sad really, and a vast majority of the car audio population, whether its on purpose or not, will follow suit and continue to buy other peoples products.
I am sorry that you feel the plan we are using is inferior and that none of the dealers in your area can provide any service to you. We are not selling it to big box stores for the same principals we are not selling product on the internet.

My suggestion of a short term solution would be to contact a dealer that you like and tell then you want the product. If there is no specialist in your area you want to do business then there is not a short term solution for your problem. There might be one down the road.

Once again I know that this is not what everyone wants to hear but it is how we have chosen to build a dealer network instead or a slurry of re-sellers and clerks.
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Post by NewOldStock »

AAMP217 wrote:I am sorry that you feel the plan we are using is inferior and that none of the dealers in your area can provide any service to you. We are not selling it to big box stores for the same principals we are not selling product on the internet.

My suggestion of a short term solution would be to contact a dealer that you like and tell then you want the product. If there is no specialist in your area you want to do business then there is not a short term solution for your problem. There might be one down the road.

Once again I know that this is not what everyone wants to hear but it is how we have chosen to build a dealer network instead or a slurry of re-sellers and clerks.
dont be confused... its not an issue of "what I want to hear" or "happiness" its an issue of history... ultimately its AAMP that will pay the price for being shortsighted and ignoring the mountains of marketing studies and market trends. Hell, even medical equipment that you have to have a prescription for is sold online... maybe I am crazy but 250 billion dollars spent online in 2007 alone tells me that ignoring it is a piss-poor decision. http://www.census.gov/econ/estats/2007/ ... tfinal.pdf

I understand that AAMP wants to build a brand and wants that brand to mean something... we all get that. The dealers I like working with, what a joke. They all went out of business, couldnt compete with online sales, all thats left are the jokes and big box stores. but be certain, NONE of them can provide any service to me or to anyone I know personally. ultimately the only ones that they CAN provide service to/for are the ones that wouldnt know to ask for Phoenix Gold when all their friends have Kicker and JL Audio that they bought online.

I guess this is the last post in this discussion. Time will tell whether PG and their zero online policy can manage to do what other massive companies cant or if they will ultimately fall victim to their own exclusivity that has to be propped up with money made from people that buy Stinger products online.

When AAMP finally does decide to sell online, lets hope its not too late like it has been for so many others that ignored the new market.
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Post by eulogious »

I have been following this thread for a while, and from what I can tell, there has been no time frames thrown out for anything. So this means that tomorrow they could be selling online. It sounds like they are just managing their resources, since they probably don't have a bunch of people working on the phoenix line. That's the problem with starting over from scratch. You have to build everything from the ground up, and that doesn't happen over night.

So who knows what will happen after the deal network is setup.

I think that it's a little silly this day and age that they are not selling online, but I kinda of understand why. They don't want to come across as a cheap product at first. Get the product in peoples hands, let it speak for itself for a little bit, then offer it online. So I can understand what they are doing, it just sucks for some of the people on here who don't have a dealer they like near by.

I do think though there should be some way to get the guys who have been on here alot the gear they want. Maybe based off post count, then you can order directly from phoenix? I don't know. I just feel bad for the guys on the forum that want new gear and cant get it :( Totally sucks.
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Post by ungarocd »

I read through the first few pages of this thread and saw how passionate so many of you are about PG and what it's plans are for the future. This is very encouraging to me as we are now an authorized B&M for them. We are excited to help promote the brand.

We have absolutely NO INTENTION of selling product over MSRP. I was surprised to see that some of you have run into this problem before. Maybe it's because we an installers turned shop owners, or because our shop is young, but we would be happy if someone is willing to buy at MSRP.

Fortunately for the people in our area, we are past our pimpled face stages and if you come in for a particular piece of equipment, we're smart enough to just sell it to you. (Unless you're putting together a system that could damage something, in which case we would try to educate.) We really appreciate what AAMP is trying to do with their line and authorized dealers. It's nice to have something tangible that Car Toys doesn't. Our strength is our customer service and installation abilities. Having a line that we can stand behind which will also stand behind us is priceless. We hope to convert the 99% of car audio customers who are not a part of this forum to become PG fans, and if we have the honor of dealing with one of you, the one percent, be rest assured you will be treated with respect.

This is longer than I had intended, and maybe I'm just an optimist, but I think that we and PG can benefit mutually to make sure that the line stays valuable and accessible to the general public. We will try to sell PG to the masses to a point where you guys can continue to enjoy the line.

You get a vote from me on the forum group buy!
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Post by dvnt88 »

ungarocd wrote:I read through the first few pages of this thread and saw how passionate so many of you are about PG and what it's plans are for the future. This is very encouraging to me as we are now an authorized B&M for them. We are excited to help promote the brand.

We have absolutely NO INTENTION of selling product over MSRP. I was surprised to see that some of you have run into this problem before. Maybe it's because we an installers turned shop owners, or because our shop is young, but we would be happy if someone is willing to buy at MSRP.

Fortunately for the people in our area, we are past our pimpled face stages and if you come in for a particular piece of equipment, we're smart enough to just sell it to you. (Unless you're putting together a system that could damage something, in which case we would try to educate.) We really appreciate what AAMP is trying to do with their line and authorized dealers. It's nice to have something tangible that Car Toys doesn't. Our strength is our customer service and installation abilities. Having a line that we can stand behind which will also stand behind us is priceless. We hope to convert the 99% of car audio customers who are not a part of this forum to become PG fans, and if we have the honor of dealing with one of you, the one percent, be rest assured you will be treated with respect.

This is longer than I had intended, and maybe I'm just an optimist, but I think that we and PG can benefit mutually to make sure that the line stays valuable and accessible to the general public. We will try to sell PG to the masses to a point where you guys can continue to enjoy the line.

You get a vote from me on the forum group buy!
Dan,
Great post and am in 100% agreement, but I won't pay MSRP for anything :naughty: as this is the "Maunufacturers Suggested Retail Price" as set by the manufacturer. I'm a die-hard PG fan and if I have to wait a little while, then so be it as I will eventually acquire the gear I'm after (via a PG Dealer :D ). I know some would gladly pay MSRP, but not me (ran into this scenario when buying my new Camaro 2SS and finally told the dealership to EMA :snooty: ). Again, great post and if I'm ever in Texas, will definitely stop in :D .
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Post by ttocs »

I never expected to get it for less then msrp until I was working in the industry. I am not sure why some of you just because you are collectors think you should get it for less? Now that I am not in the industry I understand if I have to pay more then I would like but of course I try to get it for as little as possible.
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Post by ez4menyou »

it makes it an exclusive type brand again but people that shop online will find othe brands that are just as good to spend money on not alot of people go into car stereo shops in my part of va anymore. and i have to check to see if the one store that did carry pg will still carry them
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Post by jbob0124 »

Part of what brought me to PG back in '96-97 when I first heard of and purchased anything from PG was the fact that it wasn't everywhere. I had never even heard of it before then. I didn't want and still wouldn't want something that everyone else has. I'd rather wait longer and search online for used PG gear versus going to my local car audio supply store and buying something that is simply "stamped out" for profit. Don't get me wrong, I know PG is looking for a profit, that's how business's work.

Use this forum as a prime example, they care what we the consumer's think. Do you suppose the other major brands send out their pre-released gear to be tested by forum members? Yesterday I went and had a zpa tested at my local car audio shop. I pulled up to the shop and one of the employee's and a guy who they recommend for repair were sitting just outside of the car bay's in the parking lot. I parked roughly 20 feet away, got out of my truck with my .5 in my hand and you could see the look on their face from across the way. The repair man said when I was roughly half way across the parking lot, "is that Phoenix Gold?" To me it was as if he couldn't believe his eyes. That right there is why I choose PG...Not because it's readily available...
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Post by gridracer »

I agree now that I no longer work in the car audio business I don't expect to pay much less than MSRP probably get a bit of a break simply because of connections but I also plan on getting back into it when I get back on my feet.
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Post by oldschoolfan »

I am pretty sure that if any established member here that is no where near a dealer wants to buy some new PG, there would be another established member living near a dealer that would gladly facilitate a transaction. It is not quite online sales but pretty darn close as convenience is concerned. There should not be one person on this phorum that is concerned about online sales for their own personal use. Business future for the company, let AAMP worry about that.
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Post by NewOldStock »

oldschoolfan wrote:I am pretty sure that if any established member here that is no where near a dealer wants to buy some new PG, there would be another established member living near a dealer that would gladly facilitate a transaction. It is not quite online sales but pretty darn close as convenience is concerned. There should not be one person on this phorum that is concerned about online sales for their own personal use. Business future for the company, let AAMP worry about that.
I wonder if PG can stay afloat with just the established phorum members purchasing the products at MSRP through their friends in the cities that have dealers.

Currently there are 5 dealers for PG. I know for me, my closest dealer is in Mt Vernon Washington... so, I will have to make the trip and either leave my kids and wife for a weekend or god forbid load the entire family in a car, drive 5 hours to the dealer, get a hotel, spend some time getting to know the dealer, hope that they had the products I needed in stock, and if I managed to get all that done without having to spend another night in a hotel room, drive 5 hours home, or god forbid, drive the entire family the 5 hours home.

Or, I can buy the same quality gear (Asian made amps), with a different brand name online and while I wait for it, spend some quality time with the family... save the cost of a 10-hour drive a hotel room and sleeping on the couch for multiple days after I piss off the wife.

And to think, we were all excited that the new gear was coming out... little did we know that only .05% of us would be able to get it in the first couple years. Because now that I have to go find a dealer that "I like" and then "tell them my story" then wait for PG to "tell them their story" then wait for the shop to become a dealer... then wait for product to ship... its not going to happen.

Employing a sales strategy that was "excellent" in 1992 when car audio was nearing its peak (and PG was STILL losing money) would be great if you were working with gear of the same distinction and quality. But your not. It might be good gear, but its not "exclusive" quality gear... and just for the record, only selling 500 amps a year because no one knows you exist is not "exclusive", its a sign of a sales strategy that failed in the 90's and was abandoned by the rest of the successful Car Audio brands.

doesnt matter to me anymore though, I am done with this specific topic. I have apparently purchased the last pieces of PG gear I will ever purchase. Arc, JL, JBL, Audio Control and a myriad of others will get my money until PG pulls their head out of their ass and joins the rest of us in 2010.
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Post by Pillow »

I think a little of this would be more understandable if the amps were made in the USA... I just cannot see the joy in "working" to get a Chiness amp.

MMATS seems to do well as an American company even with a price premium... In theory the Ti line is more expensive than the MMATS!

... I have actually pondered this thread for days. I cannot understand the logic behind full retail prices and limited availability. The whole thing is counter intuitive.
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Post by MW3 »

Guys don't over think this, things you need to know:

Q: Will AAMP actively market PG products to sell through online retailers?
A: No.

Q: Will AAMP focus on building a solid independent dealer network to rebuild the PG line?
A: Yes.

Q: Will AAMP completely rule out all online sales until the end of time?
A: No. If we can build a solution that supports both our dealers and customers we will consider it.

Q: Will AAMP completely rule out online sales that kill the line (for example 5% over dealer cost on Ebay)?
A: Yes.

Q: Does AAMP expect everyone to pay MSRP for PG items?
A: No.
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Post by NewOldStock »

Morgan, you and Zak may want to talk... cause you two give off a different message.

I am pretty sure we all made it clear that we dont want the Rodin-Gold style of online sales and that we're not looking to buy items at cost.

You give us the impression that your looking into it and/or entertaining the ideas that we have given.

Zak gives us the impression that its tough shit if we dont want to buy from a dealer, thats how its going to be. "We are not selling it to big box stores for the same principals we are not selling product on the internet."

Phoenix Gold is not just a brand to us, at least not to me (I dont want to speak for everyone) and that attachment means that I am going to call it like I see it, even if its hard to hear.

I (we) are also more than a little weary of watching people piss away an amazing thing by either not paying attention to the brand correctly (Rodin) or by trying to apply a marketing/sales strategy that has proven hundreds of times over to fail. Times have changed and any marketing/sales strategy that "just has not been used in many, many years." does not bode well with how 90% of the people in industrialized nations spend money. Many Many years ago, when whatever this sales approach is, might have been effective, the internet wasnt a bigger maketing and sales tool than television like it is today. So, when I see it happening, I am going to call bullshit... in hopes of making a positive change.

I dont have experience selling PG or owning PG, but I do have experience at building a brand from scratch, protecting dealers and building a very loyal fan base... from both the ownership and VP of sales perspective.
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Post by ttocs »

wow :shock:

is that how it is today? If I can't get it dropped of right on my porch then I do not want it? Probably want free shipping too huh!?




keep up the good work kevin, didn't think you would hear me say that did ya.....
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Post by NewOldStock »

ttocs wrote:wow :shock:

is that how it is today? If I can't get it dropped of right on my porch then I do not want it? Probably want free shipping too huh!?




keep up the good work kevin, didn't think you would hear me say that did ya.....
Thats not what I said... but if thats the argument you want to make, thats easy enough.

Dont take my word for it ttocs... ask Hollywood video how difficult it is to make sales or rentals in isolated dealerships versus online against say... netflicks. (since they are so fresh in the news)

If you had been paying attention you may have noticed someone ask for PG to sell direct, at MSRP... charge me for shipping even, I am fine with that... but if the answer is " walk into the car audio shop you like dealing with and ask them for Phoenix Gold. Tell them your story, we will tell them our story and more often then not, that dealer will end up as a Phoenix Gold dealer." then I have to say, thats a losing strategy and thats been proven.

maybe you would like to see PG forever propped up by Stinger and PAC sales. Personally, I dont. I want to see Stinger forgotten about because all anyone knows is that PG is owned by AAMP and i think they own some other stuff too...

but ultimately, all of this is just my opinion and any proof that I might offer are nothing more than points of data. PG will do what they feel is best... its ultimately their jobs and their brand.
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Post by dontlookatme »

i think what we are arguing is just let us buy the fu*king sh*t already. i never thought it would be this difficult to let people buy stuff from a company.
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Post by MW3 »

NewOldStock wrote:Morgan, you and Zak may want to talk... cause you two give off a different message.
Zak and I are on the same page...

Main message to take home is our priority is supporting independent dealers.

We haven't ruled out a forum group buy for guys with no local dealer in their area but we are not guaranteeing them either.

AAMP is the world's leader in OEM integration and car accessory products for a reason. Take a deep breath, have a little faith, give us some time. We just launched more products in the last 3 months than the last 4 years combined...

But don't forget our priority is independent retailers without those, there is no Phoenix Gold...
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Post by denim »

AAMP217 wrote: What is your store's name? I can pass the information onto Lucky for you.
Hello Zac,

Lucky just got back in town at the end of last week, and we talked on the phone. At the moment, there is zero online sales what so ever, and we exist solely online. But he did give the impression that there is a good chance down the road that once everything is settled in, that the paper work might change and allow online sales.
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