New Ti1500.1 Review

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MW3
Morgan @ PG
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New Ti1500.1 Review

Post by MW3 »

http://www.phoenixgold.com/images/pdfs/ ... Review.pdf

Couple things to note:

- Exceeded its rated power and efficiency numbers.

- Overall efficiency of 86%!!!

- Stock pics used in the review are from pre-produciton. Both heatsink internals and mounting feet on the endcaps are a little different for production units.
Morgan West
Phoenix Gold Product Manager
ttocs
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Post by ttocs »

%86?! Impressive...
what else can I say I am a grumpy asshole most of the time.
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smgreen20
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Post by smgreen20 »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the 1500 rated to be 1500 x 1 @ 1 ohm? Now it's 1250!!! :? Even your site still says that the 1500 is rated at 1500 watts. Granted you didn't give a supply voltage, but PAS did at 12.6 and 14.4 volts.

So what gives w/that? What's the 2500 ACTUALLY going to be rated at, 1 ohm and at 2 ohms. If it still doesn't/isn't going to do 1500 @ 2 ohms, then I might have to reconsider what I'll be getting. That's a bit disappointing.
"ZPA's will have the same sound essentially as you get from the MS, they just feature a bigger shinier set of balls."

Install:
http://phoenixphorum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16998
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smgreen20
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Post by smgreen20 »

Taken from the owners manual:

"Ti1500.1
Dynamic Power 14.4Vdc >1% THD 1100 x 1 @ 2 ohm
1500 x 1 @ 1 ohm
RMS Power 14.4Vdc ≤ 1% THD 900 x 1 @ 2 ohm
1250 x 1 @ 1 ohm
Recommended Fuse Size: 100A
Minimum Power/Ground Wire Size: 4 Gauge
Dimensions: 16.85” L x 9.8” W x 2.5” H
428mm x 252mm x 62mm
Ti2500.1
Dynamic Power 14.4Vdc >1% THD 1500 x 1 @ 2 ohm
2500 x 1 @ 1 ohm
RMS Power 14.4Vdc ≤ 1% THD 1100 x 1 @ 2 ohm
1650 x 1 @ 1 ohm
Recommended Fuse Size: 200A
Minimum Power/Ground Wire Size: 1/0 Gauge
Dimensions: 20.4” L x 9.8” W x 2.5” H
518mm x 252mm x 62mm"

WTF is up with the XXX>1% thd, XXX<1% thd? A rating at greater then 1%? I'm very disappointed now. That's not what the original PG was about.

Morgan... please explain.
"ZPA's will have the same sound essentially as you get from the MS, they just feature a bigger shinier set of balls."

Install:
http://phoenixphorum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16998
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Post by ttocs »

it is a class d amp I think. They have great efficiency(where it is needed during full power) but sacrifices the THD to get it. That is why class d is popular only on sub amps
what else can I say I am a grumpy asshole most of the time.
randy8876
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Post by randy8876 »

smgreen20 wrote:
WTF is up with the XXX>1% thd, XXX<1% thd? A rating at greater then 1%? I'm very disappointed now. That's not what the original PG was about.

Morgan... please explain.
I don't understand the point of the <1%/>1% thing either.
The less than/equal to 1% I understand as being 1%. The >1% I take as being a number so high they don't want to disclose it.

Any idea what frequency PG uses to rate the Ti1500.1 amplifier?

Did I understand the article correctly where it said the results were achieved by pushing the amplifier until it was clipping? I thought we weren't supposed to do that (hence the warning lights).
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Marcelbofh
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Post by Marcelbofh »

Slightly off topic...

I did like the hidden...

"when I was poking around inside
the Ti1500.1, I found a little text that reads; “I
love the smell of burnt voice coils in the morning.”
Rumor has it that similar scripts will be found in
the other models as well."


... though.

Those are the gags PG did now and then aswell back in the days.
Though never in the hardware, they did pull some legs here and there, I'll see if I can dig some stuff up here in my old mags.
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Post by ttocs »

they were cool like that........
what else can I say I am a grumpy asshole most of the time.
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Stryker
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Post by Stryker »

I don't get it why is this not called the Ti1250.1, why is it called the 1500.1 if it cannot reach these levels of output? doesn't really bother me but just wondering....
screw car audio, I'd rather go fast....errr, wait a minute.
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Marcelbofh
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Post by Marcelbofh »

Right, did some digging and found me one (for now) of those rare gags PG was known for back in it's prime.
It was taken from a Dutch magazine called Stereo Drive, this one dates back to 1992.
That's right, I kept my mags aswell, and still love to read them whenever I get all nostalgic again.
Here's the bit I mentioned, Stereo Drive quoted Keith Peterson in the article, and it was translated from Dutch by yours truly:

<quote>
Another prank from Phoenix Gold was the punishment aimed towards the bias of many home-audiophiles when compared to caraudio.
For that reason Phoenix Gold conducted an experiment during a home-audio show.
An MS-275 amplifier was completely disguised as an exotic home-audio amplifier: big black square box around it,
two rack handles attached, 50 kilos (note: about 100lbs) of weight and a price tag of $ 10,000.
Everything indicated that it would be some sort of Krell amplifier.
Many experienced ears came along to listen to the demo setup, and they all found it sounding very good.
Every time the Phoenix Gold staff asked the listener: 'what do you think of CarStereo?'
'It sucks' usually was the answer, on which Phoenix Gold then answered:
'you have just listened to a pure Caraudio amplifier and found it sounds good.'

</quote>

Careful readers may have started wondering why it starts with 'Another prank..'
Well, the quote above was a follow up in said article about the attempt of making the FAS inputs in the shape of the bolts Frankenstein had in it's neck.
In the end they abandoned this idea because it presented all kinds of headaches to make it work properly.
So instead they wrapped the by now well known wooden case filled with hay around it.
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Post by ttocs »

they made the bolts, I have only seen one set that went for a pretty high price with a frank and matching cross-over last year
what else can I say I am a grumpy asshole most of the time.
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dwnrodeo
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Post by dwnrodeo »

Marcelbofh wrote:Right, did some digging and found me one (for now) of those rare gags PG was known for back in it's prime.
It was taken from a Dutch magazine called Stereo Drive, this one dates back to 1992.
That's right, I kept my mags aswell, and still love to read them whenever I get all nostalgic again.
Here's the bit I mentioned, Stereo Drive quoted Keith Peterson in the article, and it was translated from Dutch by yours truly:

<quote>
Another prank from Phoenix Gold was the punishment aimed towards the bias of many home-audiophiles when compared to caraudio.
For that reason Phoenix Gold conducted an experiment during a home-audio show.
An MS-275 amplifier was completely disguised as an exotic home-audio amplifier: big black square box around it,
two rack handles attached, 50 kilos (note: about 100lbs) of weight and a price tag of $ 10,000.
Everything indicated that it would be some sort of Krell amplifier.
Many experienced ears came along to listen to the demo setup, and they all found it sounding very good.
Every time the Phoenix Gold staff asked the listener: 'what do you think of CarStereo?'
'It sucks' usually was the answer, on which Phoenix Gold then answered:
'you have just listened to a pure Caraudio amplifier and found it sounds good.'

</quote>

Careful readers may have started wondering why it starts with 'Another prank..'
Well, the quote above was a follow up in said article about the attempt of making the FAS inputs in the shape of the bolts Frankenstein had in it's neck.
In the end they abandoned this idea because it presented all kinds of headaches to make it work properly.
So instead they wrapped the by now well known wooden case filled with hay around it.
That's hilarious! I have a friend who can't understand why I waste my time on car audio rather than home audio because "car audio equipment will never come close to home audio equipment". He's even gone as far as to suggest I convert 12VDC to 120VAC so that I can install home audio amplifiers and speakers!
XS2300, XS2500, XS2300, X200.4, X100.2, Ti21000.4, Roadster 66

I'm gonna become a civil engineer. I'm gonna design septic tanks for playgrounds. Little kids can take shits! You idiot, what the hell do you do?
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Post by ttocs »

oh, an true audiophile according to him right? The knowledge and ignorance that those people show makes me laugh my ass off. With as much snake oil as there is in car audio there is 10x as much in home audio and for some reason they buy into it all. Chrygenically frozen wires, chrstal ground isolators to keep the wires from touching the ground.

I had a guy at work that was an audiophile tool. He had nice stuff but it was a complete tool into buying anything that he read about. Came in one day all excited about the new DVD player he bought. and this was shortly afte it was known blueray would take over so I was curious to see why he would drop $3500 on a format that could see the light at the end of the tunnel but he just swore that this thing looked as good as a blueray. I really hat to laugh when he told me that he was watching it all on a 7yr old non-hd tv so what would it matter. The next week he came in proude of his 50 plasma he bought, and extra proude of the $800 power cable he bought extra as it made a huge difference. He was not using any kind of high end voltage conditioner or regulator so when I asked why it would matter that the last 4 ft of his power cord was frozen if it came out of the same electrical lines I got. How big of a differnce can it make if the last 3 ft of a houses electrical system was clean?

I like car audio for the challenge of making it sound as good as possible. Anyone can spend a shitload and make what they will call the greatest stereo in the world in a room with all kinds of space but to make it sound good in a car is not easy. Now to say that a car stero can't sound as good as a home theater just shows me a guy that either has not been a great car stereo, or has not opened his ears to hear anything but his own shit.....
what else can I say I am a grumpy asshole most of the time.
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Post by Marcelbofh »

ttocs wrote:I like car audio for the challenge of making it sound as good as possible. Anyone can spend a shitload and make what they will call the greatest stereo in the world in a room with all kinds of space but to make it sound good in a car is not easy. Now to say that a car stero can't sound as good as a home theater just shows me a guy that either has not been a great car stereo, or has not opened his ears to hear anything but his own shit.....
Agree one hundred % with ya there.
Too many times I have seen "unworthy" people with enormous pockets buy out everything that had the tag <uber/mega high-end> on it.
But most of the time they ended up building the biggest heaps of crap with the stuff.

In fact, one of the most memorable cars I have ever heard during the 90's, was also one of the cheapest.
Think I spotted it at one of Iasca meetings.
Car here was a beamer 7 series with nothing but Blaupunkt in it, and not even their best stuff either.
Can't remember the price tag, but think it was well below the $ 2500 range for the complete build (considered cheap by the ruling standards)

At that time I was all PG of course, and have to admit I looked down on it a bit when I walked by.
As it happened, as soon I past the car (looking for the cooler equipped cars) it started to play one of the SQ songs from the Iasca CD.
And boy did it play! The first notes pretty much made me grind to a halt, and do a full 180.

Had a really good talk with the guy, and spend an eternity listening inside that car.
Again, the equipment was not that special at all, just above average.
It was just build in and tuned really, really <r e a l l y) well.
Of course I had heard better installs, but taking in account the equipment and it's price was enough for me to remember it to this day.
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dwnrodeo
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Post by dwnrodeo »

ttocs wrote:oh, an true audiophile according to him right? The knowledge and ignorance that those people show makes me laugh my ass off. With as much snake oil as there is in car audio there is 10x as much in home audio and for some reason they buy into it all. Chrygenically frozen wires, chrstal ground isolators to keep the wires from touching the ground.

I had a guy at work that was an audiophile tool. He had nice stuff but it was a complete tool into buying anything that he read about. Came in one day all excited about the new DVD player he bought. and this was shortly afte it was known blueray would take over so I was curious to see why he would drop $3500 on a format that could see the light at the end of the tunnel but he just swore that this thing looked as good as a blueray. I really hat to laugh when he told me that he was watching it all on a 7yr old non-hd tv so what would it matter. The next week he came in proude of his 50 plasma he bought, and extra proude of the $800 power cable he bought extra as it made a huge difference. He was not using any kind of high end voltage conditioner or regulator so when I asked why it would matter that the last 4 ft of his power cord was frozen if it came out of the same electrical lines I got. How big of a differnce can it make if the last 3 ft of a houses electrical system was clean?

I like car audio for the challenge of making it sound as good as possible. Anyone can spend a shitload and make what they will call the greatest stereo in the world in a room with all kinds of space but to make it sound good in a car is not easy. Now to say that a car stero can't sound as good as a home theater just shows me a guy that either has not been a great car stereo, or has not opened his ears to hear anything but his own shit.....
You pretty much hit the nail straight on the head. Plus, 90% of the time I'm listening to music it's while driving. I don't have time to sit down and enjoy music at home. (Sorry to hijack)
XS2300, XS2500, XS2300, X200.4, X100.2, Ti21000.4, Roadster 66

I'm gonna become a civil engineer. I'm gonna design septic tanks for playgrounds. Little kids can take shits! You idiot, what the hell do you do?
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Post by Rold Gold »

Lets keep this thread on track........

I've heard the 1500.1 and it's enough power for a pair of 12's running at 2ohm IMO. I want to run a single 12 with it and figure it'll be MORE than enough for my needs. It might not be on the same level as the MS series but taking into consideration all that's happend in the industry over the last 20 years, it's more than just a "cookie cutter" amp for the masses.......
Those tender little burgers with them little, itty-bitty grilled onions that just explode in ya mouth like flavor crystals every time you bite into one.. just makes me want to burn this muthafuka down.... Come on, Pookie, let's burn this muthafuka down!!!
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Post by Marcelbofh »

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:Lets keep this thread on track........
Yeah, sorry 'bout that.

On topic again, I agree that naming the amp TI1500, will make people asume that it will deliver that in ideal conditions.
Elaborating on that, back in the day PG delivered at least the output one would make up out of the name.
For instance the MS2125 did deliver at least 125watt's per channel when hooked up properly.

In fact, it was even more when you fed it enough power, so there was a healthy reserve so to say.
In this case it seems to go the other way around, and at 2 Ohm you are "stuck" at around 860(ish)watt.
Of course the 1368watts @ 1 Ohm is nothing to sneeze at, but how many buyers will actually do that considering the nearly 120A it draws at full.

Getting carried away a bit here, my point actually is, perhaps it's best to maintain the same philosophy on labeling the amps the same way PG did back then.

And in all fairness, I figure that what it actually puts out on power is more then enough for what it is intended for in this price range.
randy8876
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Post by randy8876 »

I've been out of the car audio magazine scene for a while, but is it normal to test amplifiers at clipping to achieve their rated power?
Will this amp be covered under warranty if that's how people run it?
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Post by ttocs »

you want the amp tuned to its peak, which would mean just before clipping.
what else can I say I am a grumpy asshole most of the time.
GlasSman
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Post by GlasSman »

You know why I'm not dissapointed in the least bit by the Ti1500.1?

The ONLY thing I assumed is that it put out less power than the 2500.1

I don't expect power output by model #'s anymore....and neither should anyone else....if they want to name the sub amps 50.1, 100.1, and 250.1 so be it as long as each model puts out more than the one underneath it.
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smgreen20
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Post by smgreen20 »

I wasn't going by the amps model number, I was going by what they stated.
"ZPA's will have the same sound essentially as you get from the MS, they just feature a bigger shinier set of balls."

Install:
http://phoenixphorum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16998
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