review of the sd600.1 PAS mag

[kg1961]

what ever

[fuzzysnuggleduck]

Is this online review the same one that's published in the mag?

[ttocs]

I still miss the days of the cheater amps when they handed you an amp rated at 24-36 watts with a big ole shit eatin grin.....

[kg1961]

Is this online review the same one that's published in the mag?

yes, fuzzy even on other forum witht he nib ti2500 amp for sale same thing peak and people getting mad about rms

it looks a little differnt in the mag. more info in the break down. they have the rated --- 12v tested and same with 14v also 4ohm,2ohm and 1ohm
only at 14.4 v at 1ohm the amp will do whats its rated
In the Mb quart test 6 page before this amp it did everything but 12v 4ohm as rated and it was very close and was way up at 14.4 2ohm ect IMO better for the user

[fuzzysnuggleduck]

Is this online review the same one that's published in the mag?

yes, fuzzy even on other forum witht he nib ti2500 amp for sale same thing peak and people getting mad about rms

it looks a little differnt in the mag. more info in the break down. they have the rated --- 12v tested and same with 14v also 4ohm,2ohm and 1ohm
only at 14.4 v at 1ohm the amp will do whats its rated
In the Mb quart test 6 page before this amp it did everything but 12v 4ohm as rated and it was very close and was way up at 14.4 2ohm ect IMO better for the user

Isn't that MB quart amp a multi channel designed to run at 4ohms? PG doesn't even rate the SD600.1 at 4 ohms because it's a modern class-d mono. If you need a 4 ohm amp, the SD600.1 just isn't the right amp IMO.

The 12V vs 14.4V argument is fair if you want the model number to reflect the output at 12.5V (as they used to).

The SD600.1 is rated for 400W at 2ohms, does the review state the amp doesn't do 400W at 14.4V and 2ohms? The online version of the review doesn't show those results so I can't see it. The online version says this:

Moving the amp from the listening room to the unforgiving test bench, the amplifier tested better than the published power specifications.

So I'm a bit confused. Their tests show the amp doesn't make rating, but the summary of the bench tests says it does? Which is the truth?

[stipud]

There's also the question of what the amp was designed to do. Is it a cheater amp to win SPL contests? No. Is it a tiny versatile amp that can be put anywhere, yet puts out a ridiculous amount of power for its size? Yep.

[Audiophiliac]

Power rating are overrated anyway. I am willing to bet that there are not many people who would be able to tell a difference if their amp made 500 watts or 800 watts. Even maybe 1000.

[stipud]

Power rating are overrated anyway. I am willing to bet that there are not many people who would be able to tell a difference if their amp made 500 watts or 800 watts. Even maybe 1000.

Right. 500 watts to 1000 watts is only a 3dB difference. A 10% underrated amp would be inaudibly louder. My main concern, especially with an amp that's not SUPPOSED to be a cheater to begin with, is that I "get what I pay for". The amp makes its rated power, and it does everything else it is supposed to as well.

[kg1961]

..

[stipud]

The way they rate the amps has nothing really to do with their quality. It has more to do with selling units. They have to use the same rating systems as everyone else, in order to stay competitive. Consumers who don't realize PG amps are underrated are only going to be looking at watts/dollar. PG could afford to do this in the 90's when car stereos were for enthusiasts, but not today, now that the industry has become mainstream. Would computer CPU manufacturers purposely underrate their processors?

The new gear is better than what PG produced before, and it's still competitively priced. MSRP to MSRP, RMS to RMS, the new gear is a better value AND there is far more variety. Compare the SD600.1 to any other brand of amps in its class and it is very competitive as well. You guys are just used to paying the massively undercut eBay prices, which are no longer available. These prices were the reason PG damn near went under!

You guys gotta admit that compared to when PG was owned by Rodin, PG has been going in a much healthier direction as a company. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Unfortunately, with the way everyone's been slamming PG as of late, I've noticed them posting less and less. Can't say I blame them, with all the naysayers in this section in particular. I had much higher hopes when I opened this section. We made a lot of suggestions, and saw several of them come into fruition! What more could you ask for? We don't own the company. Hell, we don't even buy their gear anymore. Why should we have any more say?

Let's stop focusing on the negative and get back to supporting the brand whose fanclub we are all members of!

[MW3]

Here are the facts direct from the review of SD600.1:

Rated continuous power as follows:
400w x 1 @ 2 ohm
600w x 1 @ 1 ohm

The amp measured:
420w x 1 @ 2 ohm
635w x 1 @ 1 ohm

USA retail is $350.00. This is a very small, but powerful amplifier that can fit anywhere and power a wide range of woofers. Its engineered for and all day reliable at 1 ohm.

If you think the older PG amplifiers were magically underrated by hundreds of watts, sorry to burst your bubble its just not true. They always fell in the 5 to 15% range.

As I always say, I suggest you actually listen to audio equipment before declaring it to be the best or worst thing in the world.

[ttocs]

I have told myself I will keep an open mind on the new gear until I get to listen to it where I use to be the lead basher..

I have also told myself that I will be lucky if I get to hear it by the time I am actuall considering buying audio gear in the next ten years. I agree it is presumputous to knock before I have got to try and and will not do so but the roll-out of the new gear has been horrible IMO. Still a 5 hr round trip for me to demo it.

[dwnrodeo]

Power rating are overrated anyway. I am willing to bet that there are not many people who would be able to tell a difference if their amp made 500 watts or 800 watts. Even maybe 1000.

Right. 500 watts to 1000 watts is only a 3dB difference. A 10% underrated amp would be inaudibly louder. My main concern, especially with an amp that's not SUPPOSED to be a cheater to begin with, is that I "get what I pay for". The amp makes its rated power, and it does everything else it is supposed to as well.

I can agree with you there but if a guy at vision said the only way you will see the rated power is run it hard and put away dry i would have a problem. also these are not to be a cheater amp but if lets say there are 8 way to install this and you only get one out of the 8 rated> shit IMO
the amp on a normal set up will never hit rated amounts
remember your guys first 2 set up, we all never up graded alt/ power wire ect it was all plug and play and if i was buying this little amp i would be pissed to spend more in wire/alt/or batt to get a little 600 at best WTF. were othe company bring more watt closer to rated all the time and better priced????????????????????????????????
sorry but its silly
most that would buy this amp wants cheap small and works but most of the people and kids i know i could never let them run 1ohm or have some major problems they are not smart so is are having amp that the kid adds bass boast, runs super hard better? they fail and how look like shit?
let go down the other company road
does jl/sound stream/ alpine/orion/or other the in the normal vs pg amp do it? NO ===look at how piss people are when wanting to buy a ti2500 new on dyma im mean 1500??? don't know what to say that amp is a/b???. if you want to see other class d rating i will look at the other amps reviews set like this to prove my point
not great IMO that is it
I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER PG amp again till they start making the name they build off off not a amp they rate at peak i can never get in a car or only if i beat the shit out of it. i would rather buy other brand better value to $$$$ i don't need a little logo to win,like or tell my friends i need power, sound great and get what i pay for ect...
im think it not the right move in the market full of the china items. being, differnt better for the money not just bs> again would be the right move. but im done
hell i just went back to ppi pc 1997-1998 amp as i hate most of what out there on my next set up 4-mb 8"sub, 3way mb mid/tweeter pc2100,pc450 and a nice deck(have not picked yet)

Wow, that was extremely hard to read/follow. I don't understand your argument about "run the amp hard" or "the amp on a normal set up will never hit rated amounts". What do you mean "run the amp hard"? If you mean getting the most out of your amplifier then yes, you should probably run it hard to get the maximum wattage the amp can produce. If I want 600 watts out of a 600 watt amp, then I will adjust my gains so that at the maximum volume of the headunit (before clipping of course) I will be getting 600 watts (also unclipped) out of my amplifier. This should be achievable on a "normal setup", if by normal setup you mean no additional power upgrades. I run a Xenon 200.4 in my daily driver (4 ohm coax drivers in front and 2 ohm sub briged to the rear channels) with only a single run of 4 gauge and a 60 amp fuse. I also didn't upgrade the alternator (factory 90 amp or so), battery, or any of the big 3 and haven't had any issues. I would expect a 600 watt class D amplifier wouldn't tax the electrical system too much.

I think the biggest issue you have is purely with the naming of the amplifiers. So you are fully aware that the Ti2500.1 doesn't make 2500 watts RMS. O.K., take that into consideration before buying an amplifier.

[kg1961]

ok maybe i was a little rash i my last post. sorry

[stipud]

ok maybe i was a little rash i my last post. sorry

No problem I wasn't snapping at you in particular, just the general sense of negativity in this section. We're supposed to be helping PG, not bashing them! Let's at least turn some of that negativity into constructive criticism... for instance, let's ask PG to change how they rate their amps, or at least make the "honest" ratings more accessible.

It sucks that the salesmen in Calgary have been bashing the gear, but as you know, this doesn't mean the gear is necessarily bad per-se, it just means that the dealer training is bad. Especially with commission sales it is really hard to get any factual information, because they are most likely trying to sell you whatever gets them the highest margins. PG has always had really poor representation in Canada. A lot of it is because the distributor ends up in charge of doing all the dealer training, rather than PG themselves. And since the distributor is doing all of the training and promotion, this is why we also see nearly double the cost of the US market, because they charge the consumer (not PG) for the training and marketing they have to do. I was hoping with AAMP that things would be different than it was with Trends, but it seems to be same ol same ol so far. I guess PG just isn't big enough to exert better control the Canadian domain, like Rockford and JL can afford to do.

I do agree it's very cheesy of PG to have switched to max power ratings on the amp labeling and the marketing material. In fact I just had a poke at the website for the Ti1600.5, and it's certainly disappointing that I have to go into the manual to see what the actual RMS rating is. Especially after all these years of PG bashing into my brain that RMS is the only true measure of an amplifier, seeing them switch is disconcerting. At the very least the published "max" specs are the dynamic rating of the amplifier, which is something you actually might see on music (not your usual double the RMS rating MAX power that you see on flea market amps). I can only imagine this was done to stay competitive in the market, when other brands have been publishing max specs on their gear for decades now. Now in your examples, the Rockford amp actually made its published power at 12v. But I feel they are a brand that can maybe afford to underrate their amps, because they are a well established brand name, so people will buy their gear regardless of the power rating. PG is basically starting back from nothing, so they have to pull a few more tricks to stand out from their lesser competitors.

So while I am disappointed about the amps being rated at max power, I have decided to look BEYOND the numbers. If you toss the amplifier ratings aside completely, and compare the amps on a more objective level, the new gear is very good, and very competitively priced. It's too bad that the car audio market is so loosely regulated that amp companies can choose whatever rating system they prefer. It would be way better if they were forced to use CEA RMS ratings or something like that. I mean what's the point in a measurement if everyone uses a differently scaled ruler? But I believe this is a market concern more than a PG concern.

Regarding "The One"... there is a lot of complaining about this amp in particular in this section, but I believe it has been a brilliant success for PG. The amp was basically a marketing ploy, and little more. You're exactly right... the amp doesn't fit into PG's lineup. But it gets people talking, it gets articles written about it, and it gives them a platform to stand on when they say PG is "reborn". But it's not their meat and potatoes, so for them to spend all their time and money working on making it a unique amp would be a lost cause I think, especially considering they have revamped every single product line, and added several new ones!

[Bfowler]

i thought it was a solid review. i would totally own a set of sd amps. plus, these werent even made to be their "powerhouse" these things are TINY, shit i could install them hehind the glove box or in the center console of some vehicles. how cool is it to have 400+ watts and have it nowhere to be seen?

[Thumper88]

Interesting...but they are the same size as my beloved PDX amps and less powerful...

[ttocs]

beloved? I rarely heard them called that the way the liked to pop all their fuses for no reason.

[MW3]

Sorry but my eyes hurt, that is not easy to read.

This thread is about SD600.1. We have already been through most of the above topics in other threads before.

Let me try to put this in perspective, this amp is more power, reliable, smaller and outperforms a XS2500 (One of PG best selling amps ever). It even includes the remote level control.

The bottom line its a kick ass little amp for a reasonable price, its as simple as that...

[ttocs]

I look forward to hearing them. Have you considered a loaner program to help the roll-out>?

[oldskoolmseriesfan]

all i gotta say is i need to hear the equipment im buying b4 i purchase numbers are numbers...i dont guve two shits its a way different market now so at least give the new gear a listen and half a chance.

[kg1961]

[holmis]

I want one.....

But no where to buy....

[kg1961]

I want one.....

But no where to buy....

like normal

[dwnrodeo]

I want one.....

But no where to buy....

like normal

It's not that difficult. Call up the nearest shop (there's a dealer locator on PG's website), tell them what you're interested in, they'll tell you a price, and if you agree to it then buy it and they will ship it to you. Most shops are willing to work with customers and will gladly ship items. I mean, after all if it means they sell product why wouldn't they?

As for demo-ing the gear, I don't really care about that. Everything I have bought car audio was purchased without hearing it first. I read reviews and listened to others opinions and based my decisions off of those suggestions and my personal needs/tastes. Has PG ever put out an amp that sounded bad? Speakers are another story (Octane) but as far as amplifiers are concerned my money says you'll be safe assuming PG will sound good.