Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Need help with your car stereo system? Have a technical question? Post here.
Post Reply
Bigred41291
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:10 am

Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by Bigred41291 »

I am going to purchase a new elite 12d but was wondering how it will compare to my w6s will I lose a significant amount of output or should it remain relatively close since the elite will recieve the same amount of power as both of my w6s(1500w) also will I be sacrificing sq because my w6s really love the different notes of Bassnectar, Skrillex, Excision, etc.
P.S. I am running my current set up in a ported box tuned to 32hz.if I remember right and plan on running the elite in a ported box at about 35hz
davewaibel
Posts: 532
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:34 am

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by davewaibel »

I have them both in my set up- truly feel that your wasting a awesome woofer by porting the 12d elite-w6 is in the middle of w3(most musical) and the flappy wonder W7- w6 is a good woofer, does a lot of things fairly well, but the ti elite is definitely a step above- elite gets a bad rap for being power hungry, but I do not think it is as bad as most believe it is- does just fine on 1200- some think it needs 1200 a coil, but I do not know what these believers are listening to, or how loud they are listening to it- I have 4 elites, 2 w7's,3 w6's in my set up, and the elites are definitely my favorite, they are big and heavy, and take a fairly decent amount of real estate(x4)
I am assuming that your talking about the old titanium 12d elite (morel)- if your talking about the new elite woofer, then disregard my previous statement- not sure anyone has played with those yet
Last edited by davewaibel on Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
stipud
Voltage Ohms
Posts: 14719
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 1983 4:00 am
Location: Burnaby, BC
Contact:

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by stipud »

I don't think you will be disappointed, especially considering the amount of trunk space you will be saving.

I like the Elite on 600w for music, 1200w for bumping, and 2400w for SPL ;)
Bigred41291
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:10 am

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by Bigred41291 »

I was speaking of the new ones and actually my setup is in a 91 Ranger ext.cab lol
User avatar
dvnt88
Posts: 2330
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:13 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by dvnt88 »

Bigred41291 wrote:I was speaking of the new ones and actually my setup is in a 91 Ranger ext.cab lol
The new Elite sub per Morgan (MW3), is supposed to hit dealers in April and have heard that they're supposed to be monsters in SQ and SPL, but PG only knows how they really sound since no one I know of on the Phorum has had a chance to test one yet. The old-skool Elite subs are monsters and are one of the best sounding subs I've heard ...have personally owned several and have heard Dave's setup ...fuckin' crazy is an understatement.
Audison Bit Ten
Hertz HSK163's (x2)
Hertz HX250 subs (x2)
Hertz HDP1
Hertz HDP4
PG Tantrum BassCUBE
XS Power D4900
Misc. PG Install Goodies


"Old-Skool TI-Whore"
User avatar
stipud
Voltage Ohms
Posts: 14719
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 1983 4:00 am
Location: Burnaby, BC
Contact:

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by stipud »

Oh the NEW one... this is going to get confuuuusing :-?
Bigred41291
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:10 am

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by Bigred41291 »

Hmm il try a.sealed box for it when I get it but I usually like the ported rumble worst case scenario I can give it a ported home. However I do want to run the sub as close to its potential as I can untill I.can afford the elite1 and I'm sure you guys know alot more than me, thats why I'm here to try and absorb some knowledge :D
Bigred41291
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:10 am

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by Bigred41291 »

dvnt88 wrote:
Bigred41291 wrote:I was speaking of the new ones and actually my setup is in a 91 Ranger ext.cab lol
The new Elite sub per Morgan (MW3), is supposed to hit dealers in April and have heard that they're supposed to be monsters in SQ and SPL, but PG only knows how they really sound since no one I know of on the Phorum has had a chance to test one yet. The old-skool Elite subs are monsters and are one of the best sounding subs I've heard ...have personally owned several and have heard Dave's setup ...fuckin' crazy is an understatement.
Speaking of which maybe I could get some input from you morgan? It would be greatly apreciated
User avatar
MW3
Morgan @ PG
Posts: 634
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:51 am

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by MW3 »

Happy to answer questions, but how it will "compare" is really impossible for anyone to answer. Its just too broad.

The JL is a fantastic woofer, so is the new Elite. Can you be a bit more specific?

Sorry for the delay, just finished up a lot of recent travel.
Morgan West
Phoenix Gold Product Manager
Bigred41291
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:10 am

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by Bigred41291 »

MW3 wrote:Happy to answer questions, but how it will "compare" is really impossible for anyone to answer. Its just too broad.

The JL is a fantastic woofer, so is the new Elite. Can you be a bit more specific?

Sorry for the delay, just finished up a lot of recent travel.
I guess what I'm asking is will I lose spl swicthing from 2 12 w6s to a singleElite12 using the Ti1500.1? I am currently running my JLs at one ohm and its amazing just wondering if the elite could be a "single sub alternative"?
rc10mike
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:54 pm

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by rc10mike »

Its simple really, a single 12 will displace half the air of a pair of 12's. Your two 12's already have enough surface area to produce great output. Unless the PG sub can displace more air by itself than your pair of W6's, the W6's will be louder.

Short story, two 12's will be louder than one 12, In your situation.
User avatar
00goobs
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:59 am

Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by 00goobs »

I've been playing with an older program called WINIsd. It is an enclosure building program and seems like a bit of fun. You can (if you trust it) simulate freq response and gain in different types of enclosures.

A single 12d in a good ported box would be as loud, if not louder and play lower than a pair of the same 12s in a sealed box. You get about 3db ported over sealed. Now a good thing to know is xmax and at what wattage you'd be able to reach it in both speakers in their specific enclosures. There is a newer program that calculates that and a whole bunch more info than WINIsd and that may answer your spl and freq response queries.

Now which will sound better, that would be what you'll figure out after all the fun/hard work of building the enclosures. I really enjoy my pair 10w3v2s in a separate sealed enclosure, but I believe a single RSDc 12 I just acquired in a good ported box will be quite louder and hopefully sound as good if not better...
Bigred41291
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:10 am

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by Bigred41291 »

rc10mike wrote:Its simple really, a single 12 will displace half the air of a pair of 12's. Your two 12's already have enough surface area to produce great output. Unless the PG sub can displace more air by itself than your pair of W6's, the W6's will be louder.

Short story, two 12's will be louder than one 12, In your situation.
That seems to be a good theory but I also know that when I switched from my kicker cvr12s to a single 12w3 and I had more spl and better sq I was thinking with higher xmax and a larger rms rating I might get more from the elite
rc10mike
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:54 pm

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by rc10mike »

00goobs wrote:I've been playing with an older program called WINIsd. It is an enclosure building program and seems like a bit of fun. You can (if you trust it) simulate freq response and gain in different types of enclosures.

A single 12d in a good ported box would be as loud, if not louder and play lower than a pair of the same 12s in a sealed box. You get about 3db ported over sealed. Now a good thing to know is xmax and at what wattage you'd be able to reach it in both speakers in their specific enclosures. There is a newer program that calculates that and a whole bunch more info than WINIsd and that may answer your spl and freq response queries.

Now which will sound better, that would be what you'll figure out after all the fun/hard work of building the enclosures. I really enjoy my pair 10w3v2s in a separate sealed enclosure, but I believe a single RSDc 12 I just acquired in a good ported box will be quite louder and hopefully sound as good if not better...
WidISD is still popular today, and you are correct in stating a single ported 12 would be pretty much as loud as two sealed 12's. In this case, the OP is going from two ported 12's to 1 ported 12.

He is trying to go from two proven amazing subs to just one untested/unproven sub.
rc10mike
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:54 pm

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by rc10mike »

Bigred41291 wrote:
rc10mike wrote:Its simple really, a single 12 will displace half the air of a pair of 12's. Your two 12's already have enough surface area to produce great output. Unless the PG sub can displace more air by itself than your pair of W6's, the W6's will be louder.

Short story, two 12's will be louder than one 12, In your situation.
That seems to be a good theory but I also know that when I switched from my kicker cvr12s to a single 12w3 and I had more spl and better sq I was thinking with higher xmax and a larger rms rating I might get more from the elite
What I said is not really a theory, its more fact. Two ported 12's will be louder than 1 ported 12, and two sealed 12's will be louder than 1 sealed 12, as a RULE of THUMB...there are some extreme cases where this might not be true, but in your case it is.

Xmax and power handling mean nothing if you dont factor in BL and sensitivity. Just because the PG has more xmax and power handling doesnt mean its a better sub, and that it will adequately replace two ported 12w6v2's.

You will need to push the PG to the max to get more output than two w6's. When a sub is playing at its "max", it will produce more distortion, due to BL. Having two subs do the work of 1 is always a better option, space provided.

You say the single 12w3 was "louder". What size and type of boxes were you running for the Kickers and W3?
Bigred41291
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:10 am

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by Bigred41291 »

I put the w3 in a 1.5cuft ported (can't remember what it was tuned to) and the kickers in a 3.0cuft shared port box (did not know about port tuning at time so I never knew) w3 hit more notes, way cleaner and with more spl. All subs were ran at about 500w rms
Bigred41291
Posts: 151
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:10 am

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by Bigred41291 »

rc10mike wrote:Its simple really, a single 12 will displace half the air of a pair of 12's. Your two 12's already have enough surface area to produce great output. Unless the PG sub can displace more air by itself than your pair of W6's, the W6's will be louder.

Short story, two 12's will be louder than one 12, In your situation.
I just read on the pg website that the elite can move as much air as "3 normal 12 inch drivers" I wonder what they consider normal 12 inch drivers
GlasSman
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:28 am

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by GlasSman »

Bigred41291 wrote:
rc10mike wrote:Its simple really, a single 12 will displace half the air of a pair of 12's. Your two 12's already have enough surface area to produce great output. Unless the PG sub can displace more air by itself than your pair of W6's, the W6's will be louder.

Short story, two 12's will be louder than one 12, In your situation.
I just read on the pg website that the elite can move as much air as "3 normal 12 inch drivers" I wonder what they consider normal 12 inch drivers
Alot of that is marketing.

2 12's will couple more air than one 12" woofer....simple as that.

Coupling more air is the best way to achieve higher output levels.

A woofer might be able to move enormous amounts of air....but at what frequency....with how much input power....and even more importantly.....for how long does it stay linerar?

Achieving 156 DB for 5 seconds means nothing to me......will it impress me on my drive to beach....listening to music for 2 hours straight?

THATS what I'm concerned with.

Coupling more air is the no BS approach to higher linear output levels when listening to music.
////Alpine/PhoenixGold/MBQuart/ImageDynamics/Soundstream
User avatar
kg1961
Got wood?
Posts: 9051
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Calgary

Re: Elite 12d vs. 12w6v2s

Post by kg1961 »

anyone use the new elite? it now middle of june? reviews ect please
most of my gear is gone :liar:
2020 honda accord sport
Post Reply