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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:36 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:59 pm
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AVICJR wrote:
Will the sub output on this amp be sufficient enough to run the new Elite sub?


I wouldn't think so, but if I were looking at the Elite subs I'd go with an Elite.1 and Elite.4 combo anyway. It'd have basically the same SQ with the right amount of power for the system.

Elite.5 is basically an excellent audiophile amp that can power an entire "non-SPL" system. If you think about it, the Elite.5 is basically (3) M100's (2 on the highs, 1 bridged on the subs), except the Elite.5 has a little more muscle for the subs. Really, it probably is the best single non-limited edition amp PG has ever made, and it's probably better than a lot of the LE amps too.

Honestly, the Ti 5 channel will do the same thing when it comes out in March, but the Elite.5 will still sound better since that one is all class D. They'll sell more Ti 5 channels than Elites I'd expect because it's smaller and likely cheaper.



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:42 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:39 am
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Morgan

I'm very curious if there would be any modifications possible to the fifth channel to allow 2ohm power at 4ohms ?

Thanks,
J



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:02 am 
Morgan @ PG
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No possible modifications. Run the Elite.12d at 2 ohms and it will be fine!!!

The Elite.12d is rated at 1600w RMS, THIS IS NOT THE POWER IT NEEDS TO REACH FULL POTENTIAL. This is the limit of the woofer's thermal and mechanical limitations.

With 800w to 1200w RMS, the woofer performs fantastic and sounds great. Woofers need LESS power than everyone realizes for daily listening.

If you want to go pure SPL that is different story, but we are talking about an Elite.5 amplifier system here.



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:10 pm 
the Floor Sweeping Hack with Golden Ears

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I think they are asking if a single elite sub will sound good on the 400 watts that they amp is rated at, at 4 ohms morgan? 1/4 its RMS power.



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:05 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:59 pm
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MW3 wrote:
Woofers need LESS power than everyone realizes for daily listening.


If one is contemplating a system with an Elite 12, daily listening is rattling the fillings out of your teeth. Normal people can get by with 250 watts on an $89 subwoofer, but this is a different crowd I believe. That said, in another thread you said the very same thing about how a 600 watt rms Ti2 10" would sound great running off of the Elite.5 sub channel at 2 ohms. The Elite.5 is rated 700 watts rms, but let's face it, it's really going to be closer to 800 watts in reality, which is going to be 33% over rated power. Everyone preaches, "when in doubt, overpower the sub, it can take it".

For better or worse, that's what I am getting, but I have a contingency plan for when the sub blows.



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:24 pm 
Morgan @ PG
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On the Ti2 10 inch woofer I specifically warned, "If you set the level properly and not go crazy on the volume knob you should be OK."

With the level set wrong and/or listening at very high levels its very possible the sub will fail thermally, hence my warning.

We don't preach "overpower the sub it can take it" because it leads to more woofer failures with minimal to no performance benefits.

We do preach, set the levels properly and know the limits of your system.



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:06 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:39 am
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Morgan,

What kind of 4ohm power should I expect from the Elite.5 on the mono section ?

Thanks !



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:09 am 

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MW3 wrote:
We don't preach "overpower the sub it can take it" because it leads to more woofer failures with minimal to no performance benefits.

We do preach, set the levels properly and know the limits of your system.


I know Phoenix Gold says stay within spec, and be mindful if you don't. That statement was more about car audio people in general, in which the general mindset is that you are more likely to have woofer failures with not enough power than too much. But, I have blown them with over power also.

For example, years ago (back before the car audio apocalypse) I had a pair of MTX 300 watt rms 12's running off of a 750 watt rms MTX amp. The dealer recommended those subs for that amp, did the install, tuned the amp, and those subs died inside of two weeks. I took them back, and went into an Orion dealer's shop looking at an HCCA 12, and he wouldn't sell it to me because I was going to run it on a 750 watt rms MTX amp, saying it wasn't enough power and it'd blow. I ended up buying a pair of XTR 12's in a box that were rated at 350w a piece, and cost almost as much as the single HCCA I was looking at. Those subs served me well for over 5 years and never blew, lost sound quality, or anything. Moral of the story is I learned that you want to be within 100 watts or so of rated power.

The Ti2 sub is within 100 watts of rated power to the Elite.5, and the installer is building a custom box to spec for this set up, which is why I went along with the reasoning. I just hope the sub is rated somewhat conservatively to account for the conservative rating of the amp.



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:34 am 
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What about the subwoofer section on this amp, would it sound as good as an AB class?
Was going to go with Alpine's PDX or JL's HD due to its small footprint and retire my huge Xenons, but Im really curious about new Elites. If I have room for it...



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:02 pm 
Morgan @ PG
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Elite.5 makes around 400w RMS at 4 ohms for the subwoofer channel.

If you like the sound of your Xenon's you will love the Elite.



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:55 am
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Under powering isn't more likely to blow speakers... Until the idiot with the gain starts clipping the crap out of it. I've always wondered if it wouldn't be possible to throw efficiency out the window and somehow apply a variable resistance to an extra Unpowered voice coil, so as it approaches mechanical limits of excursion, the resistance of the other coil drops, providing more electrical damping, to prevent overexcursion. I'm not sure how you could accomplish this without some form of feedback into an amp, to tell the amp to let up at that point acting as a signal compressor at the top end of power, or without custom winding some crazy coil setup with variable winding patterns between powered and resistive loaded coils. Someone with more smarts than me could likely figure it out though.


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:01 pm 
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30 pounds of pure sexiness. Absolutely astonishing craftsmanship. Hats off to pg.


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:14 pm 
the Floor Sweeping Hack with Golden Ears

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can't wait dats mine!



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:32 pm 
Morgan @ PG
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Very nice...



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:28 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:59 pm
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I just got my truck back from the installer after he put in an Elite.5 amp, 2 sets of Elite.65's, and a Ti2 10" sub, among other things. The speakers are still clearly loosening up right now as it has gotten louder all day, and I'll post a more detailed review later on, but I have four initial impressions.

1. Phoenix Gold is most definitely back
2. This amp is f***ing ridiculous
3. It blows my mind that you can get THIS much bass from a single 10" sub. I was admittedly skeptical of going with just one and not dropping the amp to 1 ohm, but I damn sure don't need another one, or the extra power.
4. I am even more blown away by the fact that the 6.5" components are keeping up with the sub and not getting overpowered, even over 130db. (I know it was easily over 130 db because my ears felt like they were bleeding and literally hurt. I still had headroom on the volume at that point too, I just physically couldn't go up any more)

Someone said this amp has a very "in your face" sound to it. That's pretty accurate.



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:27 am 

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:51 am
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Kirghiz wrote:

Someone said this amp has a very "in your face" sound to it. That's pretty accurate.



That would be me! :)




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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:37 pm
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Well,

I had been looking for a "single box" solution for my system. I was evaluating several options until I came across the Elite.5. I was very excited to know about PG's rebirth and that I was able to find an importer for Mexico, and now with all the opinions posted here I am even more excited when the importer confirmed my amplifier is on the way. It will be running a simple active system with CDT Audio ES-6 mids and ES-010 tweeters at the front and a JL Audio 10W6v2 sub. Front stage may be replaced with Illusion Audio C6 system later. I can't wait to get it and install it. I will share my experience with it if I may.

Cheers,
Hector J.


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:32 pm 
the Floor Sweeping Hack with Golden Ears

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its a hell of an amp hector you will enjoy the unboxing for sure....



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:49 pm 
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Welcome to the forum hector. I'm sure you will love the new amp. Let us know what you think.



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:59 pm
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It'll make that 10w6 stand up and talk. It's a beast of an amp.



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:37 pm
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Just an update...

MY ELITE.5 IS FINALLY HERE :metal: !!! Sorry for yelling, but I have no other way to express my excitement here. And just like ttocs mentioned, I really enjoyed the unboxing experience, now I need to talk to my installer as I will need to change the design of the amp rack due to the size of this monster. I ordered two of them as a friend of mine jumped on the Elite.5 bandwagon with me, and I am told by the distributor for Mexico that these are the first two units to make it into the country. I will let you know the results as soon as I get it into my car as I also need to upgrade the power wiring now.


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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:08 pm 

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HectorVega wrote:
now I need to talk to my installer as I will need to change the design of the amp rack due to the size of this monster.


Even seeing the dimensions on the Phoenix Gold website doesn't prepare you for the challenge that is fitting the Elite amps in your vehicle. When I first got to my installer's shop on install day, he laid the Elite.5 I ordered on the counter to show me, and he said "pick it up". They don't make mention of the weight on the website I don't think. :lol:



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:15 pm 
the Floor Sweeping Hack with Golden Ears

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its big..........



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:07 pm 
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^^^^ Yes ...Yes it is :shock: , but ...It will fit in the beast 8) (Barely). :mrgreen:



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 Post subject: Re: Phoenix Gold Elite.5 5 Channel
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:07 am 

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I felt compelled to post some comments on the Elite.5... I've had my Elite.5 for a few weeks now and just haven't had the time to install it, due to work and helping take care of my twin 15 Mo. olds.... So a very good buddy of mine has been installing a new system in his Sequoia and I've been providing some support and advice... During one of our lunch bull sessions I let him borrow the Elite.5 to get his thoughts on it... A few days went by and I received a call from him offering his thoughts on the amplifier... His reply was.... THIS AMPLIFIER IS AMAZING !!!!.... FLAWLESS...!!!!

So... we met back up yesterday for me to listen to his system with the Elite.5 installed... During our last listening session it seemed that his midrange was dry and lifeless... the midbass lacked punch, seemed very restricted.... Our session began with a standard, Spanish Harlem... Yeah we're old guys...., Immediately I knew this was going to be fun... We were hearing details that simply were not present only a few days ago... He made no changes to the system at all other than change the amplifiers out... No EQ, No TA changes.... nothing... The midrange was detailed, dynamic and very fluid... The midbass had wonderful punch and was very accurate... It really did not sound like the same system...

The Elite.5 has incredible dynamics... very strong power reserve... this is a keeper !!!!

Now I'm trying to figure out how I can get the boys in the garage with Dad this weekend to start working on my own vehicle.... LOL...



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