Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

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CWood
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Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by CWood »

Question is a bit late since I purchased the speakers last night, but thought I'd get your opinion anyways. Getting the gear together in install a system in my 07 Subaru STi. I was ready to order the Reference Series MB Quart 6.50" components for the front and the 5.25" coaxials for the rear. After going to the local PG dealer to pick up a pair of the Ti212D2 subs, the owner talked me into the Phoenix Gold Ti265CS components for the front and the Ti5CX coaxials for the rear. Is the SIGNIFICANT price difference between MB Quart and PG worth it. PG being the more expensive speakers.
Thanks....
Last edited by CWood on Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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kg1961
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by kg1961 »

watch the depth of your doors im told they are not deep. you might need shallow mount.
imo the mb's are nicer than the pg you listed
you can get great prices on either items if your not in a rush ebay here ect. I picked up a super great set of Id xs6.5 for my car
I know im going to get heat on this but all made pg speaker don't sound good to me just above run of the mill. yes the old elites do but they were not made by pg.
as for subs they will get down and dirty but what amps are you using is a better question
most of my gear is gone :liar:
2020 honda accord sport
CWood
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by CWood »

Thanks for the reply. I will be using a Ti800.4 for the door speakers and a Ti800.4 bridged for the subs. Reason for the (2) 800.4 was I got a good deal on the amps if I purchased 2 of them. (old stock)
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kg1961
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by kg1961 »

you might want to look for different subs if your just using a bridged t1 2011 800.4
It will work but I think the sub like to have a little more power on tap
but its also how and what you listen to
if you like it loud than I would change subs to something different
again imo
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ttocs
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by ttocs »

I never worked at a shop that carried quart but there were a few occasions people brought them in for us to install. The 3 times I can really remember them they sounded wonderful at a low/mid volume but as soon as you opened them up they just lost all mid-bass and just left us, and the customers, wanting more. We had an eq 232 in one and we could either tune it so that it sounded great loud, or low/mid but there was no inbetween.... If your going on quart strictly by the reputation and not what you have actually heard playing, I would go with pg.
what else can I say I am a grumpy asshole most of the time.
CWood
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by CWood »

ttocs,
Thanks for the reply. That does make me feel a bit better about my purchase. :wink: I've searched the net and not much at all when it comes to the review of the small PG speakers. When it comes to subs and amps there are plenty out there and most are positive reviews.
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by Kirghiz »

I was never a fan of Quart back when they were regarded as awesome. I just never liked the sound of their tweeters. They were too harsh to me. Now that Quart is a shadow of what it was back then, I find it hard to believe that they'd be better than they were then.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
CWood
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by CWood »

kg1961 wrote:you might want to look for different subs if your just using a bridged t1 2011 800.4
It will work but I think the sub like to have a little more power on tap
but its also how and what you listen to
if you like it loud than I would change subs to something different
again imo
After looking at the specs, you may be right about the amp being underpowered for the subs. (300 x 2 @ 4 ohm Bridged) I guess you can't run the amp @ 2 ohm bridged according to the manual. Since the subs and amps are already purchased I will see how it goes. I did put up a ad looking for a 2500.1. Maybe I'll get lucky and find one in like new condition.
Last edited by CWood on Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
nutxo
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by nutxo »

Meh. My Mb Quart can take 150 watts just to the mids and the midbass can move your pant legs. I have a tendency to cook tweeters ( of all brands ) but Ive found you can pretty much get what you want out of most tweeters by placement.
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kg1961
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by kg1961 »

Just pick differnt subs sounds cheaper and easier to me if you own the amps use them
most of my gear is gone :liar:
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by Kirghiz »

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHOENIX-GOLD-TI ... 338939637e

How's your electrical?

Or........ get a third four channel. http://www.ebay.com/itm/PHOENIX-GOLD-TI ... 4ace364939

Bridge the channels, get dual 4 ohm coils, and put a channel on each coil.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
CWood
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by CWood »

Running the stock alternator at the moment. (105 amp, I think.) Planning on upgrading to a 140/160 amp alternator. I'm not sure If I'll have the room to run 3 of older Ti series amps. I will talk to the shop to see about exchanging the amps for the Ti2 series amps. Anybody know what the going rate is for the Ti21000.4 and the Ti1300.1? How about the Ti2800.1? What do you guys think about the SD series amps?
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by Kirghiz »

They are about $600 or so. If you have the money, but not the space to run three 2011 Ti's, and are now considering a pair of Ti2's, I'd just get an Elite.5 and be done with it. 1 ohm power on that amp is about 1150 rms, plenty to push a pair of Ti2 subs, and the full range channels deliver just as much power as any of the amps you're considering, and it does it with better sound quality. You're looking at three $400 amps in the old Ti's, two $600 amps in the Ti2's, or one $1,200 amp in the Elite.5.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
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kg1961
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by kg1961 »

so might I ask why you are stuck on those subs? change the sub use you minty amps easy
most of my gear is gone :liar:
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CWood
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by CWood »

I bought the subs only after asking the shop if the Ti800.4 amp would be enough to push them. (Apparently not.) To return the subs there is a restocking fee and at the moment I don't want to lose money on subs that are only 3 days old and still in the box. I think I need to step back and rethink this whole deal. Spending way more than I had planned. :lol:
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kg1961
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by kg1961 »

I would make them take it back as they told you the wrong things
just remember the bigger mono amp need a lot more power that you don't have even with a 140-160 amp alt.
most of my gear is gone :liar:
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CWood
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by CWood »

This whole deal is turning sour. :lol: I should have just bought some Hifonics gear and be happy...... :wink:
Last edited by CWood on Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
sunshinefc3s
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by sunshinefc3s »

Its one of those "ignorance is bliss" situations. For example, I have been researching 6.5" comps for the past month. Had it narrowed down to 5 sets (I know...narrowed), and was losing sleep over which to pick. Its our obsessive personalities, coupled with info overload from the internet.

Just pick something and go with it. PG gear is generally very good. Its worth a little bit of a hassle IMHO.
-a
CWood
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by CWood »

I may have 2 BNIB Ti800.4's for sale.... :wink: Any suggestions on what amp I should check into to push the subs mentioned above?? One that wont empty my wallet.

What can one expect to sell a BNIB Ti800.4 for? Just need a starting off price..... Thanks.

Thanks to ALL of you that answered my questions and helping me out through this deal. :wink: Right now I'm so :? I guess I'll have to research and figure what I'm to do. Looks like my best bet would be to sell the amps and get a 4ch and a mono.
CWood
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by CWood »

Since we are on the subject of amps, this thread went way off course... :) I was looking at the Ti2 series amps. Since the Ti2 amplifiers are 60% smaller in size, how are the amps at dissipating heat? Seems to me they would get hot fast. Also with the transparent cover, to me that is less aluminum available to dissipate heat. There is lots of power in a small package. :shock: If you happen to have the Ti2 series amps, let me know what you think. "IF" I were to get the new line of the Ti2 amps, I was looking at the Ti21000.4 and the Ti21300.1.
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Drock
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by Drock »

I have the ti21600.5 running my shop test bench. It runs all day. Get warm but not very hot at all. It's not running all out, but at everyday half volume levels.
I love it.
I am however in the market for a ti800.4 to go with my ti3500.1. Let me know your price.


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Kirghiz
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by Kirghiz »

The Ti2's are class D amps, which means they are 80% efficient. The "big" Ti amps are class A/B, which means they are about 50% efficient. The less efficient the amp is, the more heat it generates. I have a class d sub amp and A/B four channel, and after an hour of hard jamming the four channel will be hot, and the class D is cool to the touch. Heat isn't a real concern on class D's.

The knock on the class d amps is that there is a reputation that they don't sound as good A/B's, but the reality is that it would take a well trained ear to hear a difference between an A/B and a newer, well built, class D. The technology has come a long way. Especially as Phoenix Gold's class D products are concerned. No, they won't match a high end audiophile amp like the PG Elites, Audisons, and what have you, but they'll hold their own against mid level products.

As far as your options go, I don't think you'll need a Ti21300.1. Go to phoenixgold.com and scroll down until you see the pasmag review on the Ti2800.1. Check out the bench tests, particularly the power output results. An 800.1 Can push a pair of Ti2 subs just fine. For that matter, look at the Ti2 5 channel amp. 2 Ohm power on the sub channel is rated at 800 rms, but it's going to make 900 watts+ rms, which is plenty to push a pair of 600 watt drivers. You don't need to give them full rated power. You just want to be well above half rated power. The five channel amp is your most cost effective way to go. If you are convinced that you want to spend the money on a pair of Ti2 amps, an Elite.5 Is a MUCH better option, and will basically cost the same money, more or less. You'll have basically the same power, but you'll have one of the best sounding amps in the world. Either way, whether you go with the Ti2 five channel or the Elite five channel, the Phoenix Gold five channel amps are pretty beastly, and expanding the system later on is easier with five channel amps. If you decide later on you want a 3 way full range set up, just add a second five channel and power the midbass drivers with the four channels, and then you'd have an extra sub channel to effectively double your sub output (1,600 watts rms with Ti2's, 2,200 watts rms with Elite.5's). You don't need more power than the Phoenix Gold 5 channel amps make unless you just want over the top spl output. In the case of the Ti2 amps, getting 8x150 watts and 2x800 watts from a total of 2 amps that each measure 14.4" X 7.1" X 2" is pretty amazing. In hindsight I wish I had went with a pair of Elite.5's in mine instead of the Elite.4 And Elite.1 That I have.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
CWood
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by CWood »

Thanks for the reply. VERY informative info you have provided. Is there that much difference in SQ between the Ti2's and the Elite amps that one can tell the difference?
Kirghiz
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by Kirghiz »

Yes, but the Elites are some of the best sounding amps ever built by anyone, not just Phoenix Gold. The Ti2's aren't supposed to compete with the Elites. They are after all one third the size of the Elites. But, Drock says the only amp he has that sounds noticeably better than the Ti2 is his Elites, so there's that.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
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Lowcountrypsulion
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Re: Better SQ: MB Quart or PG?

Post by Lowcountrypsulion »

I'm a giant fan of MB Quart as I am currently using an old, original set of Q-Series 6 1/2" components - the infamous set with the absolutely huge passive crossovers. The tweeters are powered by the front channels of an M44 and the woofers are powered by the rear channels in a pure left/right stereo arrangement. It's not a powerful setup, but it is very strong and I love the SQ of the Quarts. In all fairness, though, I have never listened to a set of PG's in an install.
Ride: 1999 Honda Civic Si (Blue; complete, unmodified B16A2)
Source A: Alpine CDA 9884
Source B: Alpine CHA S604 (Circa 1997)
Line Driver: PG PLD-1
Equalizer: PG EQ215
Crossover A: PG AX406A w/LPL44
Crossover B: PG AX204A
Amplifier A: PG M44
Amplifier B: PG M25 Series II
Front Stage: MB Quart QSD 216 6 1/2" Q-Series Comps (the real German deal; not Maxxsonics)
Subwoofer: Rockford Fosgate Punch 12
Install: http://phoenixphorum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19590
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