vs

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ttocs
the Floor Sweeping Hack with Golden Ears
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Re: vs

Post by ttocs »

I would guess it will be closer to 150 then 140 myself.
what else can I say I am a grumpy asshole most of the time.
Kirghiz
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Re: vs

Post by Kirghiz »

I hope you're right. 8)

I was reading Pasmag reviews on the Ti2 12" and the Elite 12D, and he measured the sensitivity at like 83 on both, so I question whether the 91 on the spec sheet is correct. An 8db difference is a big difference, and the difference between being closer to 140 or 150.

I hope it'll be closer to 150, but I guess we'll see.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
thebroke1
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Re: vs

Post by thebroke1 »

I don't remember of hand but I wanna say only 2550
thebroke1
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Re: vs

Post by thebroke1 »

I know the elite review was b4 they rebuilt them so 90 is what my manuals say for the e12d
thebroke1
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Re: vs

Post by thebroke1 »

The tech sheet Morgan posted was 2506 so in that range
Kirghiz
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Re: vs

Post by Kirghiz »

The reason I ask is because I have 750 watts going into a 10" that is rated at 600 now, and it isn't really all that happy about it. If I dropped the amp to 1 ohm and put over 1000 watts a piece to them I could totally envision a catastrophic failure coming from it.

But, I have an Elite amp driving one ported at 2 ohm now, and it sounds really good. Running the Elite.1 at 2 ohm and having the subs in sealed enclosures, it should sound even better, and do it at higher SPL. If all I was after was SPL I wouldn't be running Phoenix Gold subs at all, because there are subs out there that will get louder. There aren't many subs that can get as loud as the PG subs and sound as good as they do doing it however. The Phoenix Gold subs do both very well, SQ and SPL, but don't do either one what I would call great. The combination of how well it works in both applications makes for a pretty damn good sub though, best of both worlds imo. Kick drums sound like kick drums on these subs, even when pushing the excursion limits.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
thebroke1
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Re: vs

Post by thebroke1 »

So did u already get ur elites? I figured u had a dual 4 already and didn't want 2 order 4 in stead of 3 subs, I wasn't sure if the ti were like the elites where they r still alittle conservatively rated, I plan on having everything retuned though when the iraggi shows since they wil b gettting almost double the power they get now.
thebroke1
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Re: vs

Post by thebroke1 »

And I would say the elite12d do better then average in spl and sq since like I said I'm guessing 900 watts 2 each @ the moment and it hit a 145.4, and while I had the box out I measure everything and figured it's 1.81 ft3 for each sub, its not perfect but it's a start, I can't compare it 2 any of the other super subs since the closest I have seen was sum w7
Kirghiz
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Re: vs

Post by Kirghiz »

I have an Elite.5 amp now, had it since February, but the installer is going to give me credit back on it toward the two new amps when I do that in the next month or so. So I have a Ti2 10" running off of an Elite now, and I'll have four 10's running off an Elite.1 soon.

Sorry if that was confusing.

Since I am sending the sub 25% over rated power now, with 4v preouts from the HU, the voice coils do tend to smell a bit when I drive it too hard, so I have to be careful with it. That's why I am doing the upgrade. I want the system to make my eardrums explode before it gets to the point that I am driving any of the gear too hard. I want more than I'll need so that I don't ever find myself wanting to push it too hard like I do now.

The Elite 12's aren't underrated either. There is a gigantic warning in the book that says don't give it more than 1600 rms. I tend to think based on my experience with the Ti2 sub that the subs are rated dead on with the power ratings. I wouldn't be overpowering them very much if I had a choice. They aren't like Sundown, DD, or RE.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
thebroke1
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Re: vs

Post by thebroke1 »

If u check the 3rd page of the book it says don't run it above 2300 watts max for a long time or Ull fry it
Kirghiz
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Re: vs

Post by Kirghiz »

thebroke1 wrote:If u check the 3rd page of the book it says don't run it above 2300 watts max for a long time or Ull fry it
Basically that sub is built specifically so that a pair can be run off the Elite.1 at 1 ohm. That is its purpose in life. If I had the depth in my truck I would be doing exactly that.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
thebroke1
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Re: vs

Post by thebroke1 »

Correct they r made for each other and since I've never seen an elite.1 with less then 4000 watts, so i don't c why pg wouldn't keep that in mind for the woofer built for it, keeping in mind that this maybe the reason the elite12d was just remade possiblely for better results and less coil trauma, so that why I say alittle underrated
Kirghiz
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Re: vs

Post by Kirghiz »

I guess it is scemantics, but it isn't underrated. It's rated at 1600 watts, and the Elite.1 is rated at 3200. A pair will take more than 3200, but the amp that they were made to run off of will make more than 3200. They aren't saying that you should run it off of an amp that is rated higher than 1600 watts per sub. If you visit the Sundown forums at all, Jacob Fuller will sit there and tell you to throw a clean 1000 watts to the SA subs because he knows they can take it, even though he rated them at 600 watts. That is the definition of underrated.

What Phoenix Gold does with their subs isn't that. Phoenix Gold has warnings about overpowering their subs, and Morgan told me on this forum that I had to be careful with my current setup, because I am 25% over rated power. JL audio is the same way. They have warnings about over powering their subs too. Really, since every time you double the power you only get roughly a 3db boost in performance, so overpowering subs is sort of a pointless exercise anyway. You are risking damage to the sub and not getting a noticeable performance boost from it. If you have that much power you should just add another sub in the first place.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
thebroke1
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Re: vs

Post by thebroke1 »

This is pointless since neither 1 of us works @ pg and we weren't involved in the making of the product. Either way though I'm gonna run my elite.1 and elite 12ds like they were made 4 and b happy doing it, and they r made to bring the phoenix back from the ash, all the elite product says over built to get the job done and I believe it.
Kirghiz
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Re: vs

Post by Kirghiz »

thebroke1 wrote:This is pointless since neither 1 of us works @ pg and we weren't involved in the making of the product. Either way though I'm gonna run my elite.1 and elite 12ds like they were made 4 and b happy doing it, and they r made to bring the phoenix back from the ash, all the elite product says over built to get the job done and I believe it.
I never said the Elite.1 was too much for a pair of those subs. You should do that, and I would do that. That is what they were made for. What I am saying is those two subs are rated for 3200 watts, and that amp is rated for 3200 watts. Regardless of what the amp birth certificate says, those subs can handle what that amp gives them because they are rated for each other. That isn't running more power than you are supposed to run. You can safely run pretty much any amp that makes 1600 rms of clean power to one of those subs. Forget the amp's birth certificate.

Running more power than you should would be putting a 2000 watt rms rated amp on one sub. That's 25% over rated power. If the amp is making exactly 2000 watts of clean rms power you'll probably be okay, but if the amp is under rated like the PG amp and really makes 2500 watts, the system is up and down on voltage, or it's clipping, you might be in trouble, and those extra 400 watts aren't doing much for performance in any case.
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
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ROBSCUSTOMSAPK
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Re: vs

Post by ROBSCUSTOMSAPK »

Subwoofer power handling is highly dependent upon its enclosure. Small sealed box=more power, large ported box=less power. And not to mention playing music below your port frequency. That is the number one killer by itself. With 4-10" ti2 subs in a small sealed box on an elite.1 in a truck, I would expect to see 142-144. And sound damn good doing it. I too would like to see pics when finished.
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Kirghiz
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Re: vs

Post by Kirghiz »

ROBSCUSTOMSAPK wrote:With 4-10" ti2 subs in a small sealed box on an elite.1 in a truck, I would expect to see 142-144. And sound damn good doing it.
That's about what I was thinking too, low 140's and sound good. I'll be making an install thread when it's done. :D
Being loud without good sound quality is pointless, but having good sound quality without being loud is also pointless.
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