Amp suggestions due to NOISE

[adsoldschool]

I'm looking for help or an amp(s) to power the following:

1 pair of Front A/D/S seperates and a center coax (ideal power is 70-100 w/ch)
1 pair of Rear JL Coax (ideal power is 50w/ch)
1 pair Subs (4 ohm 12" RF that handle 200nom/400peak).

I currently have it set up with an ADS PH15 running the front and rear (100x2 fr, 50x2 rear), a Soundstream ClassA100 bridged running the subs (would like more power) and a Monolithic PA-100 for the center ch. It's probably 25-50watts.

Anyways, this equipment was recently installed in my 2006 Acura TL along with a RF 3Sixty unit for integration to the factory head unit.
Lots of noise (hiss even when the system is off due to no remote turn on lead, alternator whine, and turn-off pop). The installers tell me its because of my older amps not having modern-day filtering. Tried in-line filters, ground-loop isloators...still noise. Are new amps my only solution? In researching, I'm afraid I will lose my center channel. Would love to know if anyone has done an install keeping the center channel and how it was done.

[kg1961]

i have a 2008 tl no problems how did you get the remote wire power?
im just amping a 13.5 jl sub right now off a line level unit very cheap no sound
i used one line off the fuse panel and unit for the remote?
best of luck

[adsoldschool]

I didn't wire it, the shop did...but I did ask them about the 3Sixty being on when the HU is off, and they agree with the topics I've read all over the ent about a lack of remote turn on, and the HU provides too low a voltage to act as one too... the RF unit powers up as soon as the key is turned. I did my own installs 15-20 years ago and never had these problems...I went to a shop because of the new technologies and now I am frustrated.

[ttocs]

where did they tap the signal for the 360? I always recomend getting it behind the radio where the signal has not had a chance to pick up noise, but alot of places like to put it in the back to save from running cables.

[adsoldschool]

i think they tapped in at the factory amp end of the harness. We've unplugged the RCAs between the 360 and the amps and the noise is still there, so it looks like its def the amps.

[ttocs]

I would ask them to move the 360 if I were you, just because you have noise before the amps does not mean its your amps fault. If they ran the factory signal wires next to the fuel pump for example, they can pick up noise there. The 360 can't do anything with a noisey signal at its imput, and then of course the amp will not fix it no matter what type of "filtering" you put on it.

Like I said it is a common thing to put it at the end to save from running signal cables but sometimes you save a quarter to spend a dollar, and I think this is one of those cases. They saved themselfs 30 mins from running the cable and probably spend an hour or two trouble shooting now and THAT is exactly why it is better to put it closer to the signal.....

[adsoldschool]

sorry..i should have noted that the 360 is in the front pass kick panel, where the factory amp was. they tied in from teh radio to the 360 then RCA'd to the amps in the trunk. the amps are mounted on a wooden panel and they are grounded in the trunk.

[ttocs]

ahhh ok, then ask them if they tapped the signal going into the factory amp, or comming out of.... If they tapped the output, it could be the factory amp introducing the noise and then your system amplifies it. IF they tapped the input to the amp I would STILL recomend moving it closer to the source/deck as the factory wiring is often ran inline with other factory power wiring, which can be bad for noise.

[adsoldschool]

the factory amp has been removed. the set-up is: Factory head unit to RF where the factory amp was (not sure if they cut the factory harnes or had an adapter plug), sheilded/twisted-pair Stinger RCAs to amps in trunk. There is a ground-loop isolator in the line there somewhere. the noise is still present whenthe RCAs are disconnected from the amps. I am using an ADS PH15 for surrounds, a Soundstream Class A 100 for the subs, and a Monolithic PA-100 mono amp for the center channel.

[ttocs]

then if it were a system that I installed in a shop I worked at, I would try to move the signal input for the 360 closer to the deck. Sometimes it matters, most of the time it doesn't

[oldschoolfan]

So have you run one amp at a time to narrow it down even more? It probably isn't all three making this noise.

[computerjlt]

have you tried turning the gain down on the amps and turning the level in the 360 up?


a lot of ppl i've seen complaining about noise on the 360 have their gains turned waaaaaaaaaay up and the levels in the 360 turned way down.

if you have the input on the 360 setup right (correct level set via the instructions and setup cd) then you shouldn't have any noise issues. that line about modern amps having more filtering is bs.

[ttocs]

agreed about the filtering....

[computerjlt]

Also the 360 can be configured to turn on the amps w its remote lead used as an output (see the manual on setting the jumper settings)

[adsoldschool]

Thanks! I have been researching the crap out of this and the gains were my next place to target along with the jumper setting in the 360. I appreciate it. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[ttocs]

I would go back to the shop and give them another chance before you dig into it. You paid for the install, it should be done right. With you redoing their stuff, if you go back later or have issues they may tell you to go kick rocks since you altered their install.

[adsoldschool]

yes, that's in the works, thanks. I already brought it back once, paid for the time to diagnose...still a problem. Goind back next week to have a PAC TR-7 installed to hopeflly cure the system being on when the radio is off (due to a low voltage signal from the factory head unit, the 360 and amps are currently turn on when the car is on..the TR-7 is supposed to to fix that...fingers crossed then onto the noise issue!! I did my own installs back in the 90s when things were so much easier...didn't runi into any of these probs! Too bad I can't just put in a nice aftermarket HU without all the issues that go along with that...

[ttocs]

aahhhhh that sounds like it means you have the gains on the 360 up too high I bet then if the amp is feeding a low signal. How much extra did they charge you? Did you buy your gear(360 and cables) from them or did you take it to them? They might consider a trying a line driver to up the signal not only to where the 360 will recognize it but also to reduce the gains.

[adsoldschool]

Good points ttocs... i did buy the 360 and cables from them along with sound deadening mat'l and a custom built sub box as part ofthe original install. They only charged me $30 for over an hour of diagnosing including trying other filters. i'm hoping that that PAC unit will allow them to lower any gains on the 360 and/or amps to diminish the hiss but i'm not sure if it'll be a fix or soften the alt whine.

[dwnrodeo]

If you're getting alt whine and turn on and turn off pops and clicks, it's most likely a grounding issue. I had a nasty one myself a while back, and things still aren't 100%.

[ttocs]

the last shop I worked at, the owner/manager was ABSOLUTLY ANAL about making the customer happy. It was great if you were a customer but could be hell if you worked for him. I can remember when the JL cleansweap came out, the first few we got had just the slightest noise problems. I mean you had to have dog ears to hear it from the normal listening position but it was a little more pronounced if you had your ear on the speaker. We spent hours troubleshooting it and didn't charge extra for it. How much are they charging for the pac part and to install it? In my experience all the external filters and noise reducers are just band-aids that you can't change and just cover a bigger problem.

Honestly it sounds exactly like they have the 360 turned up too far and it is now amplifying all the noise that the cables pic up between the deck and the fact amp, alot can happen in 3 ft.

[adsoldschool]

where'd you used to work??? I wish it were close to me so I could get the same vibes. Not sure what he's going to charge fr the PAC, but its MSRP on PAC site is $35. He did charge me less than MSRP for some other stuffI needed. I agree on the filters=bandaids but I think we've covered all possible at this point. Maybe the PAC will allow for gain adjustments to be lowered.

[computerjlt]

if that tr7 is what i think it is you're wasting your money on it.

as i said earlier the 360 can be configured to have a remote turn on lead OUT instead of IN. you have to pop it open and change a jumper. once that is set when the 360 senses signal on the inputs it will trigger all the remote stuff to turn on.

i wouldn't pay these clowns another dime it sounds to me like you need someone that knows their way around a 360.

[ttocs]

I am not going to talk about the shop as I do not know the whole story and after working in the industry it is just unprofessional. The last shop I worked for was out in scottsdale a few years back and with the prices he had to charge to pay the rent, it had to be right or it just WAS NOT RIGHT....

[adsoldschool]

computerjlt, thanks again for the info on the turn-on option with the 360. It is configured to turn the amps on so I think they have set the jumpers for that properly. the issue is that the OEM HU does not have enough output voltage to turn the 360 on, the 360 is wired to come on when the key is turned. From what I read about the TR7, it is designed to take that ultra-low voltage from the HU and convert to 12v to turn the 360 on. They tried to get even the lightest load relays to trip off the HU, no-go. I don't think the TR7 is the fix for the alt whine...but i'm hoping that by upping the input voltage to the 360 that they can then turn the gains down on the 360 and amps to quite the noise?