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 Post subject: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:25 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:03 pm
Posts: 5
I ‘m new here but an old school Phoenix Gold owner and fan. So not sure if it’s the amp or the subs yet that are the issue. But not getting any sounds. So trying to figure it out. Checked the wiring and fuses and all is secure and intact. I looked at the amp which is a ZPA 0.5 and 4 red led lights are illuminated on the board. The green lights are still illuminated on the status board so not sure if these lights have always been on or not as it’s not something I look at often enough to know. Anyone else have any knowledge on this? I haven’t checked the subs on a ohmmeter yet as the status lights on the amp weren’t illuminated. Any help or advice is appreciated that will help get this back into operation. I’m the original owner of the amp and subs. This is not a new install that fails to operate. So something somewhere went wrong or failed. Thanks. I have a pic of it but the site says it’s to large to add the file and I don’t know how to rectify this.


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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:07 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:30 pm
Posts: 102
I would start by injecting a signal directly into the amp. If that doesnt work, i would then disconnect the speakers and test them if they dont work. Figure out if its wiring or other component in that signal path. If injecting directly into the amp works, then you have an idea that its headunit back.



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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:36 pm 
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Location: Beaverton 48612
First off, if you are the original owner and haven't had the ps caps replaced yet, get them done. They have a manufacturing defect and at least some of them will be leaking 100% of the time. If you think your amp is the special case that won't have an issue, it will eventually bite you big time. The electrolyte is conductive and corrosive. It soaks into the fiberglass board and shorts the power and ground planes. I have fixed dozens of amps that have had holes burned in through the board. Even if they don't look like they are leaking, they are. I can post pictures if you would like...

As mentioned above, drive the amp directly to ensure it isn't an issue with the signal chain. The lights you describe are all indicative of normal operation. Do you have the bypass or crossover card in the amp? My guess is that provided there is good signal to the amp, the bypass or crossover card has either popped out or is not making good contact in the slot. It's a spring finger card edge connector and they didn't make super contact even when new. If you wiggle the card and it comes back to life, then you've found your issue. You can permanently bypass the slot, or you can thoroughly clean your card, as a little more bend to the fingers, and/or tin the card edge pads to increase the over all thickness of the contract area.

Good luck,
Jason



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M: M100, M44 for a custom amp project
Zx: Zx500, Zx450, Black Zx350
ZxTi: 4 Zx600Ti's, 1 Zx400Ti
Ti: 5 800.1's & 900.7 for a custom amp project. 1 1200.1, 1 1000.2
Tantrum: 2 1200.1's, 1 600.4, 1 500.2
XS: XS6600
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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:10 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:03 pm
Posts: 5
Yes it has the crossover card. I will check that. Everything on amp is original. So where would you recommend having the PS Caps inspected/replaced? Any recalls on the ZX450? I’m an original owner of a zx450 as well.


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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:45 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:30 pm
Posts: 102
You must disconnect them immediately. Your amps are are at risk for starting a fire, I thought this amp was fine, nope all the caps were leaking and one of the traces was bad.

Im in the process of changing the caps myself on several of my amps, Granted its not a zpa or a zx, my zx amps i bought in 99/2000 were all leaking and have been repaired.

If you are in europe nico recaps amps.. or used to. Steven mants at zed audio does it. And so do a couple of forum guys. Image

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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:57 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:03 pm
Posts: 5
I’m in California. I’ll look around and see who I can find around here. I’ve had these amps since 1996 and I don’t want them to have any issues as they have been so good.


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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:01 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:18 am
Posts: 64
Hello Fresh

like other forum members said priority number one is changing the 12 blue PSU caps. You can find a lot of info in the "how to" section.

On the crossover card there is a push button. Push it and tell us what happens (when the amp is working and connected to the speakers)
There is also a frequency adjustment knob. Turn it both ways and tell us what happens.


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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:41 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:30 pm
Posts: 102
Silverhorse wrote:
Hello Fresh

like other forum members said priority number one is changing the 12 blue PSU caps. You can find a lot of info in the "how to" section.

On the crossover card there is a push button. Push it and tell us what happens (when the amp is working and connected to the speakers)
There is also a frequency adjustment knob. Turn it both ways and tell us what happens.
Steven mantz is in newberry park. He does amplifier repair and is pretty reasonable if you are not the 2m type. http://www.zedaudiocorp.com/contact.html

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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:10 pm 
Mad Scientist
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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 1435
Location: Beaverton 48612
Zx450 has the problem caps as well. I service them as well as many others. If the zpa does have another issue I can repair that as well. I do caps flat rate for PG amps. Pm me if you want to know my rates.

Last I heard Mantz was not taking repairs due to health issues (iirc) and PG was referring folks elsewhere.

Good luck,
Jason



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M: M100, M44 for a custom amp project
Zx: Zx500, Zx450, Black Zx350
ZxTi: 4 Zx600Ti's, 1 Zx400Ti
Ti: 5 800.1's & 900.7 for a custom amp project. 1 1200.1, 1 1000.2
Tantrum: 2 1200.1's, 1 600.4, 1 500.2
XS: XS6600
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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:23 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:30 pm
Posts: 102
Jacampb2 wrote:
Zx450 has the problem caps as well. I service them as well as many others. If the zpa does have another issue I can repair that as well. I do caps flat rate for PG amps. Pm me if you want to know my rates.

Last I heard Mantz was not taking repairs due to health issues (iirc) and PG was referring folks elsewhere.

Good luck,
Jason
Jeez, I hope he gets better.

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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:32 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:03 pm
Posts: 5
It was the card. It had come loose. I’d forgotten that this had happened the first year I had them but was in a different car and different set up that contributed to it. Reinserted and works perfectly. Changing the crossover does nothing visually but you can hear the range changing. The ps caps you mentioned them being blue, but these are not blue. They are black and gold like the pic of the m series amp. I see no signs of anything leaking. The board looks new. This was one of the first zpa 0.5’s from PG. it was a preorder before even coming out. Not sure if makes a difference or not. The zx450 has the same caps and was bought at the same time. Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:51 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:30 pm
Posts: 102
Fresh wrote:
It was the card. It had come loose. I’d forgotten that this had happened the first year I had them but was in a different car and different set up that contributed to it. Reinserted and works perfectly. Changing the crossover does nothing visually but you can hear the range changing. The ps caps you mentioned them being blue, but these are not blue. They are black and gold like the pic of the m series amp. I see no signs of anything leaking. The board looks new. This was one of the first zpa 0.5’s from PG. it was a preorder before even coming out. Not sure if makes a difference or not. The zx450 has the same caps and was bought at the same time. Thoughts?
Id bet they are leaking. Mine were in all but my 1000.2, but i changed those too

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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:33 am 
Mad Scientist
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Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 1435
Location: Beaverton 48612
There were two types of Panasonic caps used, navy blue with gold and black with silver. Both types have the same defect. They just seep electrolyte, it doesn't always make it out past the edge of the caps. Hell, I just did a brand new MS-250 for a guy, out was literally one of the first Ms almost PG made, I think the date on the board was 1989 or 1990, the caps were leaking.

I have seen where only a few caps out of the 12 in a zpa are leaking, but I've yet to open any PG amp with these Panasonic caps and not find at least some of them leaking.

Good luck,
Jason



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M: M100, M44 for a custom amp project
Zx: Zx500, Zx450, Black Zx350
ZxTi: 4 Zx600Ti's, 1 Zx400Ti
Ti: 5 800.1's & 900.7 for a custom amp project. 1 1200.1, 1 1000.2
Tantrum: 2 1200.1's, 1 600.4, 1 500.2
XS: XS6600
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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:23 am
Posts: 2863
Location: Somewhere in Between
Please heed the advise from everyone and change those CAPS. This is real world experience that's talking to you by us. I myself have 26 years in the industry, not to mention what Jason and the rest have. I'll guarantee there's over 100 years of combined experience talking.

I'm not saying you are, but I get the feeling that you're blowing off the CAP replacement deal because you don't see any signs of leakage. I just acquired an MS275 and an MS2125. The 2125 has visible leakage, the 275 does not, but I'll assure you it is. I have yet to put power to them and wont until I replace them during Christmas shutdown. I did replace some caps on Sapphire 5ch amp, none showed signs of leakage until I removed the caps. I even did the paper test prior where I slid paper under the caps to see if any liquid was detected.
You might get 3 more days or 5 more years before something happens, but please, don't push your luck.

I'm glad you found the issue and that it was an easy fix.



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"ZPA's will have the same sound essentially as you get from the MS, they just feature a bigger shinier set of balls."

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http://phoenixphorum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16998
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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:25 am 
Short Bus Driver
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Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:50 am
Posts: 4229
These caps showed no signs of leaking, and the board looked like new...

Image

This one had some evidence of leaking, but did not look too bad...

Image

If you want your amp to look like these, DO NOT change your caps. :lol:



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Got "schooled" by member shawn k on May 10th, 2011...
No longer really "in tune" with the audio industry, and probably have not been for some time.
Hands down the forum's most ignorant member...
Don't even know what Ohm's law is...
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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:41 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:25 am
Posts: 1860
I had a brand new Frank and a brand new sofa burn up recently due to these caps... I didn't let this happen to my brand new Nickle


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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:36 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:03 pm
Posts: 5
Not planning on rolling the dice. I like these amps to much to do that. Steve still does them and he seems to be the closest. I don’t want to ship them. I would rather deliver and pick up personally. I want them to last for another 20+ years. So it will get done. Is there more work that should be done while this is done?


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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:30 pm
Posts: 102
Fresh wrote:
Not planning on rolling the dice. I like these amps to much to do that. Steve still does them and he seems to be the closest. I don’t want to ship them. I would rather deliver and pick up personally. I want them to last for another 20+ years. So it will get done. Is there more work that should be done while this is done?
Not that im aware of, i sent steven my 600ti and had it recapped. He also bypassed the input switch since it was dead, and cleaned it up.

Steven is an odd duck to put it mildly, but does good work.

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 Post subject: Re: ZPA 0.5
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:24 am 

Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:55 am
Posts: 1816
Location: So cal
Stephen does great work, but demand he uses nichicon caps. Tell him that was advise from David Werner. ;)

Also go onto the registry and add your serial number or send me your info on here. What city are you in? I’m in Agoura Hills.



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