PG will have NO internet sales... piss-poor decision IMO

[denim]

I am working on this, waiting for Lucky to get back from being on the road.

[Pillow]

I would not rule out a "slight modification" in the future based on some of the recommendations made here.

[dvnt88]

I would not rule out a "slight modification" in the future based on some of the recommendations made here.

X1

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

I usually shoot from the hip and I'm going to say to most of you!!!!

Stop being bottom feeders

Yes PG should have a online sales system...

I also think any store should be forced to stick to a set pricing scheme.

Where online kills the M&D stores is the overheads. I can sell online a set of speakers for $10 profit and sell it in bulk but M&D will go broke doing this. So price fixing the Max and Minimum pricing would solve this.

Also fixing the max price would stop the M&D stores from over charging - like I've said before "bring back good service".

I've worked in the industry for many years. The stereo in my Toyota Hilux is insured for $10000 but through contacts I've paid $1100. And where I can get it cheaper I will. But If I want something and if I want it bad enough I will pay full retail.

I think most of you have no idea how the system works....

I buy the product from a manufacturer "say a Chinese Amp maker" for $40USD its a 1000wrms D class monoblock. In this I get 10% free amps for warranty. I then ship to my Headquarters in Australia (landed it now owes me $75 because of freight and Duty etc). This product is then sold to wholesalers/distributors over seas for $300 incl freight/duty etc (remember I now have to price in warranty- so this drops the sale price a bit). The warranty now lies at the Wholesaler. This is then Wholesaled to a retail store at $600 - this is to cover Reps and now returned warranties etc which believe me cost a bomb. This is now retailed at $900-$1000. Overheads of a store and HAVING to discount a product doesn't leave a lot left after most sales- Also how long has it been sitting as dead money and/or sold below cost...

Each and every one of those businesses have chewed at least $500 of that final sale as running cost- the $200 is tax and you would be lucky to see $300 profit distributed between those companies.

The only real true money making machine is the government and its such a shame they are the poorest spenders/ making the worst decisions and its to me just like a kid being given $100 in a candy store its, just wasted...

Anyhow back on topic- If I cut out the wholesalers and just up the product on the net. I now have a product that owes me $75 vs the in-store landed cost of $600. No wonder prices are cheap online, but would it do me any good because my M&D stores will just stop selling my gear= oh shit isn't that what happened to PG !!!!!!!!!

So some sort of price structuring needs to be put in place- Everyone wins in the end here if we all get to make the same margins. If I'm making a certain amount via internet sales (as my margins will be larger) I can now lower overall wholesale prices...

How bloody hard is it...

[NewOldStock]

I usually shoot from the hip and I'm going to say to most of you!!!!

Stop being bottom feeders

...

So some sort of price structuring needs to be put in place- Everyone wins in the end here if we all get to make the same margins. If I'm making a certain amount via internet sales (as my margins will be larger) I can now lower overall wholesale prices...

How bloody hard is it...

well, now I am really confused...

you start your rant by calling most of us bottom feeders, which tells me you obviously didnt actually read what was said in most of the posts. Then you conclude your rant with essentially what we all agreed should happen... and AFTER the guys from PG said that they were looking at options based on the suggestions we made - that you call us bottom feeders for, then agree with us about.

So, I think its safe to say ... what the fuck are you talking about? Did you read even 50% of the posts in this thread before talking out your ass? Its awesome that you have worked in the business and have a potential insurance fraud situation with your Toyota Hilux... but I am confused as to how that makes you anything more than a bottom-feeder, since you clearly paid as little as possible for your stereo system, as you clearly stated, through your "contacts". Its not that you couldnt pay full MSRP, but you didnt have to, so you didnt... unless you wanted it bad enough and didnt have any other way of getting it cheaper. Which would make you a hypocrite.

So, since I obviously missed what you were really trying to say, after calling us all bottom feeders, then proving your also a bottom feeder, then agreeing with our previously stated solution to the problem... maybe you could write a whole new post after reading all the posts that have already addressed what your talking about?

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

I usually shoot from the hip and I'm going to say to most of you!!!!

Stop being bottom feeders

...

So some sort of price structuring needs to be put in place- Everyone wins in the end here if we all get to make the same margins. If I'm making a certain amount via internet sales (as my margins will be larger) I can now lower overall wholesale prices...

How bloody hard is it...

well, now I am really confused...

you start your rant by calling most of us bottom feeders, which tells me you obviously didnt actually read what was said in most of the posts. Then you conclude your rant with essentially what we all agreed should happen... and AFTER the guys from PG said that they were looking at options based on the suggestions we made - that you call us bottom feeders for, then agree with us about.

So, I think its safe to say ... what the fuck are you talking about? Did you read even 50% of the posts in this thread before talking out your ass? Its awesome that you have worked in the business and have a potential insurance fraud situation with your Toyota Hilux... but I am confused as to how that makes you anything more than a bottom-feeder, since you clearly paid as little as possible for your stereo system, as you clearly stated, through your "contacts". Its not that you couldnt pay full MSRP, but you didnt have to, so you didnt... unless you wanted it bad enough and didnt have any other way of getting it cheaper. Which would make you a .

So, since I obviously missed what you were really trying to say, after calling us all bottom feeders, then proving your also a bottom feeder, then agreeing with our previously stated solution to the problem... maybe you could write a whole new post after reading all the posts that have already addressed what your talking about?

Before you get your knickers in a twist I probably should of explained the bottom feeders part a little better. The reason for that statement is there are those who would prefer to have a cheap price at the cost of the Audio Company going under or the retailer and then just move on to the next. And well to me that sucks...

Anyhow and with the insurance in Australia we have an "agreed insurance policy" which doesn't matter what its worth or what was paid = so there's no fraud there

And as far as getting things cheaper = well we are all human and if we can get something cheaper without hurting anyone we will.
But what I'm getting at is if a company does things right there shouldn't be anything sold cheap (other than to those who are in the know, friends etc). My point is I don't mind paying Full price from this company because I know what it takes to get a product to retail... Where some of you were moaning about paying full price. So that's why I broke down how it works (for those who don't know) so they have some sort of idea how a $40 amp ends up at $1000 retail.

So its got nothing to do with being a hypocrite, I just didn't explain the start clear enough throwing a cloud over my whole rant

[fordtough1]

Like I said before, I have no problem paying retail prices, as long as it's the same retail price everyone else is paying. I think the reason I got turned off of car audio stores was because of the markup that some of them use. When I was younger, my local car audio store was usually about 50% higher than a store we used to go to in a bigger city. If you needed something quick, you weren't going to drive the 150 miles to go to the other store, but it really burnt your ass having to pay the extra money. With the internet, that shouldn't happen though. At least now a person can find out what a certain amp is selling for in another part of the country, so you know if your local retailer is screwing you or not.

[stipud]

Bottom feeders are people too. Without this bottom feeder, you guys wouldn't have a forum to post on. I've made my contribution to PG in other ways than paying full retail for their product. So let's not blanket judge people because of how much money they have, or how they like to spend it. I don't pay full retail on ANY electronics unless I absolutely have to. I have the patience of a saint. If waiting two weeks means I can save 50-70% over Canadian retail prices, then I will wait. I quite simply don't have enough money to buy all the things I want unless I buy it from the cheapest sources possible.

We all understand how amps come to cost as much as they do, due to import tax, distributors, warranty pricing, etc. And as you should understand living in Australia, we Canadians also get double dipped on duty and distribution fees, so we pay almost double what the Americans do, despite that our dollar is par. Is that "fair" to you? That I can get in my car and drive for 2 hours, and find PG amps at half the price? But paying the lower price means I am hurting the company now? I don't mind paying a bit of Canadian border markup, but enough is enough.

If you had the option to buy a single Ti10D with a warranty locally for $450, or buy TWO online with no warranty for $250 shipped, which would you pick? Is it my fault that PG is sold on eBay in huge quantities? Hell no, that's their own problem, not mine. You can't blame me for picking the cheaper of two prices, and somehow insinuate that I am actively trying to feed off of PG as a brand. If they didn't like internet sales, they would have done something about their distributor leak. But they didn't, and I got cheaper gear. If the gear wasn't affordable, I would never have bought PG in the first place!

The closest I paid to full retail on any PG gear was my Ti900.7 from SoundDomain when they were still an authorized dealer... it cost $700 shipped. Same amp locally, $3500 retail. Am I a bottom feeder for choosing to spend nearly $3000 less for the same amp? Who is the real crook here? Me for paying US retail prices, or the Canadian retail chains for charging so much?

All my other PG gear was bought from their forums, friends and family sales, or factory direct. And because they get me cheap awesome gear, I choose to spend my time supporting them as a brand.

So AAMP has quite the complexi issue on their hands. Do they run with PG's old distributor leaks, allowing things to be sold at a hair above distributor cost with no warranty in order to get their scale discounts from the factory? Or do they clamp down on any distributor who does sell to the grey market, and impose more strict regulation on pricing, but lose customers due to the higher pricing?

Apple was brought up earlier in the thread and I think it's a wonderful example. I can buy Apple online, in retail stores, or in the US, and it's all within about 10% of the same price. They don't have any distributor leaks, so there is nowhere to buy Apples at 50% of retail cost. So what do I do? I pay full price! JL Audio is probably the closest example to this. They also have good control over their distribution and pricing, and offer an online store that doesn't put their brick and mortars out of business. I think this could be a good model for PG, as long as consumer demand allows them to support it.

[kg1961]

very well put Tom I have to agree with you
Sounds around and Audio concept are very over priced in calgary
I have never bought a new pg item other than a bass cube from my friend clearing out the last stock he had. All of pg items I have owned has been here or friends ect
I spend allot of money here and on other things but I would hate to think of myself as a bottom feeder. I like toys so I will buy more when they cost less
lets use my focal fp 800.1 one new on ebay with out ser. number and the other with
same amp same items ect I have to say one was alot less money than other one and they work the same

[stipud]

Sounds around and Audio concept are very over priced in calgary

Tell me about it. Soundsaround's salespeople were the absolute WORST. Go in asking for a $500 sub and amp setup, and they pick out $2500 worth of gear and hand you an application form for their store credit card. It's experiences like that that made me absolutely hate brick and mortar car audio. That's why I buy exclusively online now.

Even getting a discount from my friend who worked at Visions, selling to me "at cost", I was paying as much for Sony Xplod gear as I do for PG amps.

A&B was the only chain that seemed to have half decent sales staff, but I had to drive for 30-45 minutes to get there, and they didn't have any PG.

[Jason84]

Love the negative posts about not being able to buy online. Make your next check out to China directly. Stop wondering why everyone is losing their jobs, and look into the mirror. Maybe your boss will cut your pay or fire you and bring someone else to do your job for "cost".

[fordtough1]

Well, that was a positive addition to the discussion...

[Bfowler]

Love the negative posts about not being able to buy online. Make your next check out to China directly. Stop wondering why everyone is losing their jobs, and look into the mirror. Maybe your boss will cut your pay or fire you and bring someone else to do your job for "cost".

or we could evolve and stop fighting for manufacturing jobs with people that will work for $30 a month and learn to work with our brains as designers/engineers/artists/administrators etc

[stipud]

Love the negative posts about not being able to buy online. Make your next check out to China directly. Stop wondering why everyone is losing their jobs, and look into the mirror. Maybe your boss will cut your pay or fire you and bring someone else to do your job for "cost".

Way to eloquently sum up all of our discussion into such a precision strawman argument. Bill O'Reilly would be proud!

So it was our fault that PG allowed their amps to be sold on eBay for 50% of retail cost? Funny, I don't specifically remember holding a gun to their head and forcing them to do that. But boy was I ever stupid for paying less than half the price for the exact same items made by the exact same manufacturer. I truly should feel personally guilty for cutting those bloodthirsty credit-card-pushing salesmen out of the picture!

Keep in mind these amps were leaking out at the distributor level, so PG was probably making the same amount of money off of every one of them sold. Something tells me that without the eBay leak, they probably wouldn't have gotten scale discounts either, when purchasing their amps from China. Without those scale discounts, the amps would have been even more expensive for EVERYONE. Without the income from the eBay sales, and without the scale discounts, causing higher retail prices? Where would PG be? Hell, maybe we should be thanking the distribution leak for keeping PG alive for so long.

If you've ever shopped at Walmart, even once, you are a hypocrite. If you've ever picked anything but the most expensive store to buy from, you are a hypocrite. You're just as at fault as the rest of society, so you can drop the holier than thou attitude.

[stipud]

Love the negative posts about not being able to buy online. Make your next check out to China directly. Stop wondering why everyone is losing their jobs, and look into the mirror. Maybe your boss will cut your pay or fire you and bring someone else to do your job for "cost".

or we could evolve and stop fighting for manufacturing jobs with people that will work for $30 a month and learn to work with our brains as designers/engineers/artists/administrators etc

Don't bother arguing with that socialist Brian... No capitalist would ever complain about people getting more for less money.

Hey Jason, maybe you should move to China! I hear they pay full retail for amps there!

[NewOldStock]

Love the negative posts about not being able to buy online. Make your next check out to China directly. Stop wondering why everyone is losing their jobs, and look into the mirror. Maybe your boss will cut your pay or fire you and bring someone else to do your job for "cost".

Idiot... what the fuck is with you people that are unable to read a whole thread and instead read the first post and then inject your stupidity into a discussion that's been intelligently discussed, positive options given and *gasp* even has the buy-in from the company under question?

Its either ignorance or stupidity... either way, you can prevent them both by educating yourself (I.e. read more before talking out your ass).

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

Bottom feeders are people too. Without this bottom feeder, you guys wouldn't have a forum to post on. I've made my contribution to PG in other ways than paying full retail for their product. So let's not blanket judge people because of how much money they have, or how they like to spend it. I don't pay full retail on ANY electronics unless I absolutely have to. I have the patience of a saint. If waiting two weeks means I can save 50-70% over Canadian retail prices, then I will wait. I quite simply don't have enough money to buy all the things I want unless I buy it from the cheapest sources possible.

We all understand how amps come to cost as much as they do, due to import tax, distributors, warranty pricing, etc. And as you should understand living in Australia, we Canadians also get double dipped on duty and distribution fees, so we pay almost double what the Americans do, despite that our dollar is par. Is that "fair" to you? That I can get in my car and drive for 2 hours, and find PG amps at half the price? But paying the lower price means I am hurting the company now? I don't mind paying a bit of Canadian border markup, but enough is enough.

If you had the option to buy a single Ti10D with a warranty locally for $450, or buy TWO online with no warranty for $250 shipped, which would you pick? Is it my fault that PG is sold on eBay in huge quantities? Hell no, that's their own problem, not mine. You can't blame me for picking the cheaper of two prices, and somehow insinuate that I am actively trying to feed off of PG as a brand. If they didn't like internet sales, they would have done something about their distributor leak. But they didn't, and I got cheaper gear. If the gear wasn't affordable, I would never have bought PG in the first place!

The closest I paid to full retail on any PG gear was my Ti900.7 from SoundDomain when they were still an authorized dealer... it cost $700 shipped. Same amp locally, $3500 retail. Am I a bottom feeder for choosing to spend nearly $3000 less for the same amp? Who is the real crook here? Me for paying US retail prices, or the Canadian retail chains for charging so much?

All my other PG gear was bought from their forums, friends and family sales, or factory direct. And because they get me cheap awesome gear, I choose to spend my time supporting them as a brand.

So AAMP has quite the complexi issue on their hands. Do they run with PG's old distributor leaks, allowing things to be sold at a hair above distributor cost with no warranty in order to get their scale discounts from the factory? Or do they clamp down on any distributor who does sell to the grey market, and impose more strict regulation on pricing, but lose customers due to the higher pricing?

Apple was brought up earlier in the thread and I think it's a wonderful example. I can buy Apple online, in retail stores, or in the US, and it's all within about 10% of the same price. They don't have any distributor leaks, so there is nowhere to buy Apples at 50% of retail cost. So what do I do? I pay full price! JL Audio is probably the closest example to this. They also have good control over their distribution and pricing, and offer an online store that doesn't put their brick and mortars out of business. I think this could be a good model for PG, as long as consumer demand allows them to support it.

Wow have I just not explained it well enough or what? My point was as in your last statement about Apple ( even you have liked what they are doing- this to me says your not a bottom feeder)-Those that are moaning that they can't get it cheap are the BOTTOM FEEDERS. And If everyone modelled their business around their structure then jobs might start flowing again. For those that can't afford new prices for Apple products, that's what second hand is for...

I hear ya about the Tax crap we have the same BS here in Australia. But at the end of the day that's the Government ripping us not the brand. But other than that.

NewOldStock - Idiot... what the fuck is with you people that are unable to read a whole thread and instead read the first post and then inject your stupidity into a discussion that's been intelligently discussed, positive options given and *gasp* even has the buy-in from the company under question?

Its either ignorance or stupidity... either way, you can prevent them both by educating yourself (I.e. read more before talking out your ass).

Actually I did read the whole post since you made a similar comment to me, so stop being a dick- there's no need for it. I'm allowed my opinion. You don't have to like what I say but there's no need to carry on like you do, it just shows immaturity. Just chill a bit mate. [/quote]

[itchnertamatoa]

NewOldStock - Idiot... what the fuck is with you people that are unable to read a whole thread and instead read the first post and then inject your stupidity into a discussion that's been intelligently discussed, positive options given and *gasp* even has the buy-in from the company under question?

Its either ignorance or stupidity... either way, you can prevent them both by educating yourself (I.e. read more before talking out your ass).

Actually I did read the whole post since you made a similar comment to me, so stop being a dick- there's no need for it. I'm allowed my opinion. You don't have to like what I say but there's no need to carry on like you do, it just shows immaturity. Just chill a bit mate.

he wasn't talking about your posts .... at least I didn't see it that way

Tom has made this place up from scratch after a coupla arguments on SB, yet the same guys that were there when it happened are still here.
Even here, we've gone through some hard times, losing some very good members in the process, for what ???
it almost happened again not long ago ...
thanks Tom for making this place what it is (PM coming shortly)

now back on the subject with my $0.02

I've paid both retail and non retail prices for car audio
if you want to talk about tax crap from the government, don't come to Tahiti, you'd loose your pants and still not have any PG gear (MS1000 sold here for over 5KUS$)
yet I've bought amps and speakers from a few other brands that were reasonably well priced (close enough to the manufacturer's MSRP on CA&E)
so nothing to do with government tax crap, but more the retailers here
I've also bought through F&F and factory direct through some of the guys on this forum, I will still do if I feel I'm getting a good deal, I'd be stupid not to, and so would anyone

I feel PG should look into Apple's way of doing it, as prices are almost the same, whereever you go, anywhere in the world, be it online or through a retailer

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

he wasn't talking about your posts .... at least I didn't see it that way

Tom has made this place up from scratch after a coupla arguments on SB, yet the same guys that were there when it happened are still here.
Even here, we've gone through some hard times, losing some very good members in the process, for what ???
it almost happened again not long ago ...
thanks Tom for making this place what it is (PM coming shortly)

He had made a similar comment in a reply to my post earlier about not reading through and then bagged me. But that was kind of my fault to a point, as I wasn't very clear with a statement made. I was a member on SB as well. I remember the tiffs... I just don't like seeing the tiffs here for no reason that's all. There's no need. Plus we all know how much effort Tom puts into this forum...

[NewOldStock]

he wasn't talking about your posts .... at least I didn't see it that way

Tom has made this place up from scratch after a coupla arguments on SB, yet the same guys that were there when it happened are still here.
Even here, we've gone through some hard times, losing some very good members in the process, for what ???
it almost happened again not long ago ...
thanks Tom for making this place what it is (PM coming shortly)

He had made a similar comment in a reply to my post earlier about not reading through and then bagged me. But that was kind of my fault to a point, as I wasn't very clear with a statement made. I was a member on SB as well. I remember the tiffs... I just don't like seeing the tiffs here for no reason that's all. There's no need. Plus we all know how much effort Tom puts into this forum...

My statement wasnt to you... it was to the guy I quoted... which is why I quoted him when I made my statement.

you can think I am being a dick all you want, thats your deal not mine... you clarified your statement, as far as I am/was concerned, I moved on, otherwise I would have quoted you.

However, if someone else happens to make a mistake that I thought you had, don't take it personally if I call them to the carpet about it too... hell, if I were you, I would be upset if I called you out and DIDNT call him out.

*edit*
I can see how you would think I was referring to you though by my use of "you people" - but that was not my intent, I was literally just asking, WTF is with you to Jason84.

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

All is good then and sorry for the Dick...

[stipud]

[Jason84]

FYI That wasnt me that posted that last comment. It was somebody else on my account at work.


Sorry about that...

[ttocs]

so you have 3 posts, and at least one of them was not yours... IF we were talking batting averages you would be killing it but that is not the case.

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

FYI That wasnt me that posted that last comment. It was somebody else on my account at work.


Sorry about that...

wow GREAT COME BACK.....

But if we wanted come back I'd wipe it off your mothers face