PHOENIX GOLD TI-2500.1 MONOBLOCK AMP

[money-b]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PHOENIX- ... 3f09b2bd0e

[Stryker]

You can get so much more for the same price from lots of other manufacturers.
Interesting that we see a few items of the new PG on Ebay now.(nice find B)
New PG will never be what the old PG is/was.

[ttocs]

pg has never been priced to compete with the majority of the brands out there. IMO they were better known for making kick ass expensive amps that only a few could justify paying, but rarely complained about later.

[Stryker]

pg has never been priced to compete with the majority of the brands out there. IMO they were better known for making kick ass expensive amps that only a few could justify paying, but rarely complained about later.

these amps aren't kick ass.... At least not IMO.
you are confusing the old PG (1990-2000ish) with the new PG.
I mean if someone wants to overpay for something that is a lesser product than others out there, by all means i won't stop them.
I personally like to receive value for my $$$.

[ttocs]

idunno I still have not heard these to be able to formulate a good opinion on what they sound like but it sounds like you have used them alot?

[Stryker]

idunno I still have not heard these to be able to formulate a good opinion on what they sound like but it sounds like you have used them alot?

I have listened at a store and thats it. I don't need any more listening to determine that there is nothing special or unique about the new PG.
Except overpriced and thats about it....Would never buy PG of the new era. My RSd's are fine for now.

[HiloDB1]

$750

[Eric D]

Is that price really all that bad? We are talking 2,500W here I think. And, this has a make offer option as well.

Who else makes a comparable amp for a comparable price?

As far as special or unique, I also don't think these new amps are special or unique, but really what from PG was, other than the LE amps? There is nothing special or unique about any of the early amps, and eventually they started having features like LPL ports, but so do these new amps as well. Xe.load on the Xenons, or the dual mode ZPA are really the only unique features out there.

[ttocs]

I am suprised that for an amp that size with its power rating that it can do, that it is really considered expensive. Yes there are alot of brands with 2500 watts written on the top that weigh exactly 2 lbs.

As I said I am holding off forming an opinion on how they sound till I get to hear one. Might take another 5 yrs and 2 different lines before it happens but I can wait.

[Bfowler]

Who else makes a comparable amp for a comparable price?

i was just going to ask that. thats the most powerful amp pg has ever made (that worked)

[HiloDB1]

2500watts is dynamic not continuous RMS power rating. There was a review on it awhile ago where it barely did rated of 1650watts RMS. As for other amps in that power range there are a lot for that price if not cheaper

From CarAudioMag:

Power?!: As for the 2500 watts implied by the model number, where are they? As noted in Part One [hyperlink], the big number refers to dynamic power for brief musical peaks, which we are not set up to measure at this time. 2500 watts into 1 ohm dynamic would require 50 volts, and we saw 47.9 volts into 4 ohms continuously. It’s reasonable to assume 2500 watts should be possible for brief peaks. And for the eagle-eyed amongst you perusing the manual and noting we measure 1610 watts at 1 ohm instead of the 1650 watts Phoenix says, that’s measured at 100 Hz. We made a check at 100 Hz, and cranked out 1717 watts, exceeding PG’s spec. By the way, at that point 146 amperes of current flowed out of the supply, so 2500 watt peak capability does indicate a 200 amp fusing as the manual suggests. You’ll want minimized runs of big cable for both the amp and speakers.

Rated power at 100Hz who the heck is going to be using this amp to reproduce frequencies that high?

[Stryker]

I'll name a couple
Sundown Audio 2500d $625.00USD "used"
DC Audio 3.5k 700.00USD"new" these are ballpark $ figures, I will say these 2 are underrated and put out far more than advertised.
these are not BS peak numbers either.
there are others.... just sayin.

[HiloDB1]

AudioQue AQ2200D
2200watts RMS @ 14.4v
$389 new
AudioQue AQ3500D.1
4300watts RMS @ 14.4v
$749 new
Crescendo Audio BC2000D
2000watts RMS @ 14.4v
$300 new
Crescendo Audio BC3500D
3500watts RMS @ 14.4v
$580 new

All of these amps will produce rated power no problem. They make more power then the PG TI2500.1 and cost the same or less. Both companies have great customer service and provide great value.

[Bfowler]

fair enough!

[Eric D]

Fine, I see your point.

However, I have never heard of any of the companies the two of you mention. If you buy something from them (assuming you can even find a place which sells their stuff), what do you do in a year when they are out of business?

I prefer to stick with companies which actually have reputations.

[Stryker]

Fine, I see your point.

However, I have never heard of any of the companies the two of you mention. If you buy something from them (assuming you can even find a place which sells their stuff), what do you do in a year when they are out of business?

I prefer to stick with companies which actually have reputations.

I'm sorry Eric but your out of the loop I suppose....
Sundown Audio is a very reputable company, as is DC Audio, Do a google search if you must. they have huge followings and are very big in the SPL scene. If someone is gonna run more than 2k in a daily driver they are not buying PG, thats no lie. Audioque has also been around for at least a few years. then there is American bass and the list goes on and on.
Digital Designs is more like the PG of old....Very pricey amps and there top subs are pricey too.

[HiloDB1]

Fine, I see your point.

However, I have never heard of any of the companies the two of you mention. If you buy something from them (assuming you can even find a place which sells their stuff), what do you do in a year when they are out of business?

I prefer to stick with companies which actually have reputations.

All of these companies have been around for a while. Except for Crescendo who has only been out for a couple of years. Sundown audio is a big name in the audio industry as is DC Sound and AudioQue. If you never heard of these brands maybe you should explore outside of the PG forums. They will likely be around for a very long time especially since their customer service is better then most if not all mainstream companies.

[ttocs]

again lets face it that if you wanted pg, you had to pay a premium for it but 20 yrs later now most of us know why. Because an amp make more power today is great but does that mean it will last as most of our amps have, or that they were worth repairing when they did smoke? I am glad to see that it is more expensive and not the way of ryval with a big wattage number or some lame design on the top.

Again I am all for the old school amps and still will wait to hear one before I make an opinion.

[money-b]

I never heard of it either I must say.... But here's the site for comparison http://www.audioque.com/

[Eric D]

The key point from the above is "SPL". I am not into the SPL scene, and don't care to be. PG has never been into SPL either, and only recently entered the space with "The One". The Ti2500 is not an SPL amp. It is a great match up to the Ti800.4 for someone looking for a two amp system.

I did do a Google search on the companies you guys mentioned, and they look to me to be "fly by night" types, with flea market product offerings. There are a handful of generic amp boards made in Asia, with an incredible quantity of companies marketing these boards under different names, and in different yet still generic chassis.

If someone wants 2500W so they can go break world records, then they can go ahead and get the amps you guys mention. I don't really care. However, if someone wants performance, with some styling and reliability to back it up, those amps are not what they should choose.

2500W from company X is not the same as 2500W from company Y. Both amps may move your speaker the same physical distance, but if one has more hum, noise, heat, or any other of the audio metrics not going for it, what good is it?

[Eric D]

I think some of you guys may be missing the fact that the PG is truly a "custom" design.

Love it or hate it, the Ti2500 for example is a custom one of a kind amp made for PG, and PG only. You may find similar amps out there, but you won't find one with the same circuit, same board layout, etc, in the same chassis.

With these other companies like Sundown for example, they just repackage a common amp design everyone else like them uses. Economies of scale allow them to do this at a much lower cost as no research, engineering, or in many cases even testing is required to get a product to market.

However, what you miss out on is often real performance.

I tested a Lanzar amp several years ago, which used the same board as many other cheap SPL amps did at the time, and many today even still use this old board. The amp was plenty loud, I cannot deny that, and it had the numbers to back it up. However, its weak point was lack of control. No matter what I did with it the bass was always very muddy compared to much less powerful but more reputable amps out there.

Having never heard or tested the Ti2500, I really can't say for certain it is a great amp, but PGs recent track record gives me plenty of confidence. The S1000.1 is just fine, and my own X600.1 sounded great (when it worked).

If someone gave me $1000 right now and told me to buy a bass amp, but it cannot be PG, the first on my list would be the JL 750HD, followed shortly by RF with maybe a Power T10001bd, or slightly larger depending on cost, then on to something more esoteric like Zapco, or Arc, or Tru, assuming they have something mono in that range. The amps you guys have mentioned would not have even been a consideration at any cost no matter how cheap they can be. Hell, I would give a Zuki mono amp a shot any day over these other amps.

[ttocs]

fosgate uses surface mount though....

[Eric D]

fosgate uses surface mount though....

OK, good point. Scratch the Fosgate off my list and replace it with Boss...

[ttocs]

I have to agree that pg and spl has never really been in the same sentence much together. If they were the one would come to mind and that would be about it.

[oldskoolmseriesfan]

fosgate uses surface mount though....

and pot metal