rebuilding an OG ms1000 Nickel

[ttocs]

I would prefer to replace them since they are old, and on top of that I think that the nickel and the OG heat sinks used a different style pad by the sound of it? I know at the very least they are different in the 1000 uses the press bars rather then a screw for each transistor I would assume because of the anodized insulators jacob mentioned.

[trickyricky]

I would prefer the aluminium push bars for the devices instead of the single screw for each device. I went to my local Ace hardware store and found that they had the 1/8" x 3/4" aluminium flat bar in 4ft lengths for around 5 bucks. All you need is appox 26" (two 8" and two 5", or you can smaller if you choose just to clamp the big devices and leave the predrivers with the single screws).

I was watching some anodizing videos and you may be able to do the anodizing on the push flat bars yourself as does you don't need to worry about insulation properties and can do them in any color you chose, I believe the nickle MS1000 had blue anodized push down bars. The black anodized insulators (sandwiched between the device and heat sink) are very critical any micro speck can cause a short and will either cause damage to the amplifier or pop a fuse (if the fuse is small enough to begin with).

[ttocs]

yes I already have the material to make them and just have not cut it up. You have to use the clamp bars on the 1000 as the spots its drilled/tapped would not allow for screws to go through the transistor. I am not worried about annodizing as I have a local source. If you want some done let me know and we can do them together. His price has always been fair and his work done very well.

[ttocs]

made a trip to my local electronics supply store today as I needed some diodes and thermal transfer compound for another project and inquired there about what they would recomend. He said they have insulators made from mica that sounded similar or that could work - dumb idea?

[Jacampb2]

Mica insulators are just about or possibly the first material used for this purpose. That said, I'm pretty sure that nearly any modern option will out preform Mica in thermal conductivity.

If the amp is for you and you intend to really use it, I would buy the best insulators that you can. The more efficiently you can move the heat away from the die, the more reliable the amp will be. If the power device is not thermally coupled well to the heat sink, then the internal temperature of the device can skyrocket while the heat sink sees minimal temp increase. For fets this can quickly mean thermal runaway and for other semiconductors it can damage the bonds and the die.

Good luck,
Jason

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[trickyricky]

Not to mention mica is pretty messy and doesn't look good for an amp such as an MS/MPS that shows it guts through a plexi.

[ttocs]

I am planning on using it and don't mind paying the price for what would be the best option here. I just have no idea what that option would be.

[ttocs]

I got the material for the press bars and got them cut/drilled and they only need some sanding/polishing till they are ready to be finished.



I still am not sure how to finish them though as I like the contrast the blue anodized look gives but also was thinking that maybe just polishing them or getting them nickel plated might not look too bad, but also might just blend in to the heat sink. I have also considered getting them franked to match my other amps, or possibly gold plating them again after a bright polish. I would love any opinions to help decided.



here is a finished version to help people picture it. Like I said I love the contrast the blue has against the nickel and it will go with the caps and the blue twisted speaker wires. I think either polished aluminum or nickel plated will just blend in too well but I think a nice gold plated would pop as well especially if them came out nice and shiny. If I did that though I am tempted to polish the power rails and then send them in for replating so that they would be super shiny to match. Opinions please I am not sure what I like better...

I started taking the amps apart to make sure the press bars will fit on the new sink with the amps. I got all the screws removed but the 6 power transistors on the end are stuck to the sink really well. I tried the allen key technique I was told to do prior but they didn't seem to want to pop off as easy as I remember them doing last time. Is there a better way or do I just need to lean on the allen keys a little more?

[ttocs]

ok so I finally got the time to start taking it apart and I see the strips your talking about. Is it possible to reuse them and if so is there anything I need to be careful about? Also the ceramic insulators look good right up till I saw they are 2mm thick. Isn't that going to be a problem since the original stuff is so thin? Sorry for all the questions but I have never got this into the amps before and I want to try and get everything perfect since I do hope to use them.

[RayBuck]

That's what I was saying reuse the old ones that's what would be done if you got the 2250 recapped you wouldn't have to buy new ones or make new ones to re cap. Did you get the board off the sink I read somewhere you fan heat the sink up with a blow dryer to help get the transistors off the sink....I think there called transistors

[ttocs]

I tried to remove one transistor with the allen wrench method but it didn't want to budge as easy as I remember the others so I didn't lean on it and ruin it so I held off. That is the first I have heard heating the sink but it makes sense. I thought he said at one point there was a difference from the nickel to the aluminum though but can't remember. I can see that the material has holes in between the transistors to allow for the clamp bars so it would work for that part. I also saw some graphite sheets that almost sound like what was used and wondered but again I really don't know what I don't know so any help is greatly appreciated to get this thing back up and running. I was dreaming of where to put this beast and decided to mount it in the spot by my former back seat took up and also dreaming of motorizing it so that I can raise/flip to show the bottom, as well as the gear below it. It would be pretty bad ass but also well above anything I have done in the past.

[RayBuck]

The last sentence says it all about your whole entire build you will figure it out scott. You really need someone who has taken a nickel apart to know what to use when putting the 2250 boards in that sink. Come on guys help a brotha out not all of us have a nickel or have worked on one.

[Jacampb2]

Scott, as far as I know you can reuse any insulator. Sil pads tend to get damaged though when they are removed. If a Sil pad delaminates at all it will never work like it was designed too. Many other silicone engineered insulators have the same problem. The type you see in some amps that look like really thin yellow paper are silicone laminated on kapton, they are very very fragile. I don't even bother trying to reuse them, I just install new. The aluminum insulators can absolutely be reused as long as there are no scratches. The only time I have had to replace an aluminum one was where some idiot had tried to reinstall the clamp bar and the insulator had slid. The screw chewed up the anodized insulator. Aside from mechanical damage, I doubt there is anything that you can do to hurt the oxide layer on aluminum insulators. If that is what you have to work with, just carefully clean them and then add new thermal compound and reinstall.

As for ceramic, the only reason the thickness would be a problem would be in transistor mounting. With proper lead forming the transistors should be just fine.

Good Luck,
Jason

[ttocs]

first thank you thank you thank you can't say that enough.

If I can reuse them then I will not have to worry about the ceramic pieces. Any special instructions for removing them or the transistors from the sink? As I said I tried the allen wrench but it seemed pretty stiff. A little heat on the sink?

[Jacampb2]

Heating the sink isn't going to hurt anything. You are pretty much only dealing with the suction of the transistor in the thermal compound. Normally the compound does not get that hard. I personally always try to pull the device straight away from the sink or as close to straight away as possible. I was taught this was the way to remove them with doing the least amount of damage. I know the allen key thing works for a lot of people who work on these, so I am not going to knock it but I personally use a pair of good needle nose pliers and I grab the tab and pull straight away from the sink. I've never broken anything doing this, but I guess I would say do it at your own risk.

Good luck,
Jason

[ttocs]

Ok I finally got my hands dirty and leaned on them a little more and happy to say they all came off ok. Its nice to see it starting to take shape and all the press bars look like a good fit so I can try and drop them off at my anodizer this week. I also have made a deal for a new custom plexi(if I make up my mind)...


I noticed a couple of things about them now that I was in closer and had them directly next to each other. First was the difference in the resistors they are the biggest resistors I have ever seen on one, and big on the other but not as big. You can compair them in the pic above or check out the close ups below.
big


really big...


Another think I noticed is that it looks like one or two of the transistors might have been replaced? the solder is just not as clean as it is from the factory. THere are a couple of smaller caps that look like they have expanded that make me wonder as well. Do the little ones need swapping too?



Is this a problem that I should clean up? Looks like just needs a light dap with an iron but I don't want to mess with it if I shouldn't...

[ttocs]

good news bad news - my annodizer doesn't normally do blue, but he does do nickel plating. He is going to see what he can do on the blue and I just sent pics of the end caps. Hell worse comes to worse I will get the press bars powdered blue or maybe franked with some other gear. I could do them nickel plated but I just think it will be lost in the sink....

Will the different resistors in the two amps make a big deal on different output? looking at the bands they are the same value resistance just a higher power rating?

[zeropoint0.5]

replace R345 and R346 with a 5W , same value ( 1K5 ) but half an inch from the board.

these are the ones you mentioned....

i would replace the silpads.. it was Nico boom who started with that recommendation....

resolder the fets/rectifiers/transistors after the boards have placed in..............

Valeks recommanded me to replace the 4 little glass fuses with 20A, slow types....

because if they blow they do more good then bad. especially when the amp is driven hard.....


these are some of the things i standard do when recapping an oem Original ms2250....


good luck with the finish of this project...........

[ttocs]

I actually was out on a mission today to get pads. I thought my local supply place would have them but was surprised they did not and will have to order them. But if I will also get the resistors and the pads needed to swap out on the 430s I will be redoing as well as the caps to do them. I arranged to buy my 2nd now, only need one more....

[JK]

Just noticed this topic... if you need anything text me.. I have both style nickels.. if you want me to take off something and send to you I have no problem doing so..

I say match it up as close as possible.. try to keep the original look.. I personally love the red terroids in the ms1000.. the red terroid msk has many more features also..

[ttocs]

Just noticed this topic... if you need anything text me.. I have both style nickels.. if you want me to take off something and send to you I have no problem doing so..

I say match it up as close as possible.. try to keep the original look.. I personally love the red terroids in the ms1000.. the red terroid msk has many more features also..

Thanks man I already have someone lined up to do screen the end caps and I think I just found a nickel plater, now just need to find an anodizer that does blue. I could powder them locally a similar color and probably get a better selection of colors and not have anyone notice either and still good and durable. hmm I think I will have to get my battery mounts powdered so I could throw them in with that.

[JK]

I was thinking green bars to match the terroids would look cool.. I'm going to go look at both of them side by side

[ttocs]

I was thinking green bars to match the terroids would look cool.. I'm going to go look at both of them side by side

keep it original huh? I really like the blue since it kinda matches the accents on the big caps and the wire. I also pulled off the smaller transistor heat sinks to have them done at the same time.

[ttocs]

Since I discovered my guy would do nickel plating I have been wanting to get going on the end caps so I could get them screened and ready. I felt bad about stripping ends that were in pretty good shape and would have offered to trade someone with crappy ends for me to use but I really wanted to get these going this weekend.

Can't make an omelette with out breaking a few eggs.

I was surprised to find that there was even rust under these that looked to be clean. not much but its starting....


If anyone wants a 2250 sink in good shape as well as the end with no wire connections pm me.

I also spend two nights working out my arm with a hack saw. If I were still going to the gym I would skip it after this. Shop dreams = band saw no this is not an empty amp but a blank sink I found here earlier last year someone had in their closet. The plan is to get these franked, along with the mq430s that these will link(just got the 2nd of 3 - 430s this week on the way now) to make one huge franked amp with 12 channels under it to balance out the Ms1k . Its obviously not cut perfectly perfect to use as a link so I am remembered a machine shop that can deck/plane them straight.

[ttocs]

after letting the stripper work over night and then a little navel jelly for the rust and finally a trip down the buffing wheel to clean them up and now they are are ready for plating. I am also going to clean up all the surfboard logos and have him plate those as well as I think they will look pretty cool plated rather then the Ti rust finish.