passive XO - 2nd Order, 3.5kHz

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bretti_kivi
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passive XO - 2nd Order, 3.5kHz

Post by bretti_kivi »

Hello,

the 307 is going to get tunes just as soon as I find a real amp.

In the mean time, I'm trying to put together comps and a passive XO, as the option #2. Mainly because I don't know if the standard head unit has line outs.

So, searching the web, I find some Vifa tweets and some LPG woofers for nice prices (around €20 per paar for either, so that means four new woofers and four new tweets for €80).

I need to cross at around 3.5k. It needs to sound ("OK"), it will be an improvement on the present system anyway.

So, because the tweets and Woof are different impedances, I get.. 0.5mH and 4uF on the Tweet (4ohm), and 0.25mH and 8uF on the woof (8ohm).

Any thoughts on how well this might work?

thanks :)

Bret
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marko
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Post by marko »

all depends on the sensitivity of the speakers, you may need to play about with resistors if the tweeters are too bright as they are 4 ohms and woofers only 8 ohms.
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weng
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Re: passive XO - 2nd Order, 3.5kHz

Post by weng »

bretti_kivi wrote: 0.5mH and 4uF on the Tweet (4ohm), and 0.25mH and 8uF on the woof (8ohm).
Was it the other way ? 0.5mH and 4uF on woofers and 0.25mH and 8uF on tweets ?

You may also consider leaving a gap on the crossover as it is a relatively shallow slope. Eg 4khz for tweets and 3khz for woofers, or even 4500/2500. I agree with marko that level matching between the drivers would be more tricky to get it right. A lot of trial and error involved and it is a real test for your patience.
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Post by marko »

that's why i always like to run active, speaker makers don't know what car your gonna mount their speakers in or where you gonna put them, this has a massive effect on designing a passive...
Ti1 headunit (unique)
Outlaw in crate.
2x original shrouded ms2250's.
Route 66 in box + custom m100 to match.
Roadster 66 in flight case
Octane LE in box.
Reactor #186 in flight case.
Reactor EQ232
Ti400.2 AL
AX204A + EQ232 + ZPX2 + TBA set
ZCS6 component set
Tantrum+Titanium bass cubes
Ti12d Elite sub
DD5 + DD10 + 6 Ti blocks!
weng
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Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:47 am

Post by weng »

I once spoken to the engineer of a home audio speaker company and he told me he made about 30+ adjustments before finally settle with the "most acceptable" crossover design. It was just a 2 way bookshelf using Peerless drivers. And he has all the necessary test and measuring equipment at his disposal. If that was what it takes to build a passive crossover for home audio speaker, imagine the challenge for car environment. However, if you could finally get it right, that is one hell of an achievement
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Post by bretti_kivi »

problem there is I'd need to low-level the input to the amp, or I'd be there in a shot. I'd also like to keep fading available... and that's where the issue arises.


feed from HU --> Amp --> LS

is the only way I can get it to work without changing the HU, which I don't really want to do. I guess I have to check if there is lineout available. Stupid part is that there's steering wheel controls and keeping those would mean around €100 extra over and above the unit. Since I'm on an absolute shoestring..

I could run active using the 2nd order as simple filters and level match at the amp... that would probably be the best suggestion, no?

I could also test correctly using the carPC as a source for reasonable XO points and then bear those in mind.

Thanks guys.


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Post by 444 FED »

Why complicate things?

Go with your original idea of a passive crossover. You just may need to play with the actual cut off frequencies.

You'll also want to use two different frequensies, to attempt to get a smooth transition between mid and tweeter. Usually the 6 db down point of each crossover frequency alignmnet is what is used, so that when both speakers are playing the combined output at the overlap will become a flat or close to responce. I think I might actually look at using two different slopes as well. Find the natural upper roll off of the mid and run a 6 db sloe for the low pass, and then a 12 or maybe even 18 db for the tweeter. I also prefer Butterworth slopes, in most cases, though Linkwitz riley slopes can be used to soften a tweeter that has harsh low end.

The good thing is that you could place the passive components in such a way, that you could access them easily, to play with down the road. Maybe even use a bread board so that you can quickly and easily change components to find what best suits your music, car and components. ;)

It will still sound decent using settings that aren't completly matched, and it's always be a compromise anyway. This will be a cheaper way to go, even buying components for several different configurations will likely be cheaper than buying an extra amp and active crossover net work, the best part is that you'll learn more about passive crossover design than you wanted to know and know how to tweak the x-overs. ;)

I've ran both active and passive systems, and honestly I can't say I hear much of a difference in the end, as far as sound quality goes. The active system plays a little louder, due to a more efficiant transfer of power from the amplifier to the speaker, but that's about the only sound difference. The active set-up usually allows fo easier tweaking, but also comes at a higher cost, especially when you get into the ability to change slopes and alignments.
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