RSD 10" Mini-Review

[stipud]

Wow.

Just...

Wow.

What the hell is it with these woofers? They are perfect.

A bit of background... In this car, I used to run a pair of Xmax 12" subs bridged off of the rear channels of my Ti500.4 at 2 ohms, but they were a little boomy, far too aggressive (they have an added "pang" with each bass hit), and lacked clarity in the bottom end. If you want your subs to beat the shit out of you, they are phenomenal, but they aren't perfectly true to the music, especially with lower notes. I attribute this to the higher Fs, light cone material and enormous motors.

After that I switched to a single IDMax 12" D4 wired for 2 ohms... this woofer sounded beautiful, but really sucked my electrical system dry. To get anywhere near a decent output level, I would have to push my amp well beyond it's limits. The headlight dimming was unbearable... and it did this even with a 200 amp alternator, 0 gauge wiring, and NO clipping. I found that lowering my crossover point to 50-60Hz made it dim a bit less... I suppose on lower power the IDMax really doesn't want to play the higher bass notes as well.

Also, the sub never did blend quite that well with the front stage. I tried mucking with the crossovers and phasing to no avail. Time alignment and sealing my door pods should have worked, but neither of these are an option right now. I would absolutely love this woofer if I had more than 300 watts to feed it, but at this level, it's barely moving. I would recommend at LEAST 600 watts for it.

For christmas, Brian ended up sending me an RSD 10" D4 prototype as a present, because I had yet to hear one. So today, as I was working on the 4runner install, I temporarily threw it in my friend's 10" sealed box and gave it a whirl.

Wow.

Wow.

This 10" woofer has the same clarity and depth that the IDMax does, but as a 10", it blends much better to my front stage. I can leave it crossed over a bit higher and it is still difficult to locate. What I didn't expect was that it has very similar, if not a touch more output than the IDMax on the same power (at least on higher bass), and for some reason, even when I have my system cranked to it's peak, I don't get a bit of headlight dimming.

As a 10", it naturally has a BIT less low end oomph, but it more than makes up for it with it's accuracy and how it magically blends in my car. This thing just hits every note and LAUGHS. It doesn't quite hold low notes as well as the Xenons do, but it does a MUCH MUCH MUCH better job with higher frequency bass, making this a very very usable automotive woofer for people who don't have dedicated midbass up front.

One thing I will mention is that I have been hearing how people run 1500 watts to these woofers with no problems. With my amplifier cranked (maybe 350 watts dynamic), I can easily make this sub hit it's mechanical excursion limits with even the slightest amount of clipping... so just be very careful with how you set your gains!! Also, compared to the 10" Xmax that I am putting in the 4runner, the motor seemed much weaker, with what looks like almost half the magnet (probably explains the lack of "pang", due to the Xmax being somewhat overmotored IMHO). The "weak" motor coupled with the lower Fs of the RSD makes it play nicely into lower octaves, while it still has enough motor to keep controlled and accurate. Well played PG.

Anyways, I'm going back out right now to enjoy this hilariously amazing little bastard. I will be buying myself a 10" box and keeping this as my full-time woofer, while selling my IDMax.

From how this woofer sounds compared to the IDMax 12, I would imagine it is exactly like the IDMax 10... conversely I can imagine the RSD 12 sounds exactly like the IDMax 12. Comparing apples to oranges, the IDMax 12 shakes the car a lot more and annihilates low end notes, whereas the RSD 10 blends better and is much more controlled on less power. This pretty much syncs up with Brandon's opinions as well. For those of you who have been considering running an IDMax on less power than they deserve, you really need to try an RSD instead. For the price you would be crazy not to. If you plan on running big power, the IDMax will be even better.

[bdubs767]

From how this woofer sounds compared to the IDMax 12, I would imagine it is exactly like the IDMax 10... conversely I can imagine the RSD 12 sounds exactly like the IDMax 12. For those of you who have been considering running an IDMax on less power than they deserve, you really need to try an RSD instead. For the price you would be crazy not to. If you plan on running big power, the IDMax will be even better.

wgat i try to tell people

[Bfowler]

merry christmas. i thought you would dig it. it really is weird to hear them first time. by the looks of it, they should not be capable of the sound they make.....but they just do.

[bdubs767]

What the hell is it with these woofers? They are perfect.

Tom wanna hear something funny tho...remember I was trying to talk you into he peerless xxls; I recently asked robserve about them vs a few other subs I've heard. He said to me think of them as the RSd w/o any flaws not sure what the RSd flaws are tho.

So My next buy will have to be an xxls (unless errin wants to let the mkIII go to me )

[stipud]

They look so tiny and weak, but looking at that thing playing heavy notes is amazing! When my IDMax barely moves, the RSD is going full tilt, extending it's surround fully to it's limits.

I think the whole "louder than IDMax on the same power" was mostly in my head. I reinstalled the Max so that I could do some A/B testing on different types of music. The RSD 10 is naturally playing higher notes with much more volume, but if I listen to anything like rap, the IDMax 12 can clobber it. The IDMax does make my headlights blink a lot more, even without touching gains or my volume knob on the same damn song.

It pretty much seems to be down to the difference between a 10 and a 12.... I've always been a 10 person in the past, but for the last few years people have swayed me to 12's. I think it's about time I went back, because a 10 is much more suitable for 90% of the music I listen to.

My original conclusion still holds... RSD ~= IDMax, which needs less power and costs a lot less.

[bdubs767]

RSD is going full tilt, extending it's surround fully to it's limits.

Thats what I thought until I threw real power on it Im telling you it prefer 1200 + at least the 12s.

RSD ~= IDMax, which needs less power and costs a lot less.

I am willing to bet ANYTHING a BNIB RSd vs BNIB IDMAX v3 the RSd can handle far more abuse.

[stipud]

I dunno man... at least with a 10, I can easily get the RSD to make some very bad noises where the IDMax just laughs at my meager power output. I can push the RSD well beyond it's excursion playing tones even off of only 350 or so watts. I guess if you used an oscilloscope and made sure that you were getting a stupidly clean signal it could handle a lot more than it's RMS, but it just doesn't seem to be made for it. The IDMax looks like a much more capable woofer as far as power handling goes.

The RSD has a single magnet... even my Xmax had two, and the IDMax has a triple stack. Yes, they all have different diameters, but the motor in the RSD looks to be just as weak as the Xenon. That's not to say it's a bad thing, because it enables them to play as low as they do. A stronger motor would probably just make it aggressive and less capable of holding lower frequencies.

[bdubs767]

I dunno man... at least with a 10, I can easily get the RSD to make some very bad noises where the IDMax just laughs at my meager power output. I can push the RSD well beyond it's excursion playing tones even off of only 350 or so watts. I guess if you used an oscilloscope and made sure that you were getting a stupidly clean signal it could handle a lot more than it's RMS, but it just doesn't seem to be made for it. The IDMax looks like a much more capable woofer as far as power handling goes.

The RSD has a single magnet... even my Xmax had two, and the IDMax has a triple stack. Yes, they all have different diameters, but the motor in the RSD looks to be just as weak as the Xenon. That's not to say it's a bad thing, because it enables them to play as low as they do. A stronger motor would probably just make it aggressive and less capable of holding lower frequencies.

I know I know...but hmm the 10 vs 12 there seems to be difference that are starting to come out from reviews. This is a third reveiw I have read giving the RSd10 a quite a less power handling then myself and errin have experienced w/ the 12. The other 2 were people I dont value what they say too much so I brushed it off, but I know you know your stuff so makes me raise an eyebrow now.

As for RSd 12 I ass raped it ported and sealed giving it at leats a 1000 watts over its rating and neither complained (two different rsds too). The max I know has had HUGE problems w/ people sending it to much power and end up sending the woofer out of aligment and needing re cones all the time. Just look around on ECA and CA there always poping up for sale dead or someone is bitching about how it died. This my statement saying rsd 12 can take more abuse.

[Bfowler]

not sure what the RSd flaws are tho.

the only thing i dont love about the rsd is it can't seem to hold extended low bass notes as well as the xenon.

im attemting one more try with the xenon in my car before giving up

box should be done by the end of the week

[bdubs767]

not sure what the RSd flaws are tho.

the only thing i dont love about the rsd is it can't seem to hold extended low bass notes as well as the xenon.

im attemting one more try with the xenon in my car before giving up

box should be done by the end of the week

nothing can extend low like the xenon...nothing I have used has yet to come close, even a 13w7 and even 2 15s.

[VW337]

I concur the RSd10 and RSd12 are different beasts, the 10 will be happy with the rated power the 12 on the other hand takes that and laughs. The mechanical limits on the 10 are slightly more limited than the 12. However I have sent a gob of power to the 10 without any problem.

FYI-- Tom yours is a beta rev1 the, beta rev2 (which I tested) has a better excursion limit since the back plate was ground out more which is reflected in the production units.

[stipud]

It's a shame, because when I do max out the excursion, it's not a "soft" limit, like the suspension or surround stopping the cone, but it actually makes a damn loud clicking sound. It scares me, because I can't hear it that well through my back seats, and I don't want to damage the sub. I wonder if that's the VC hitting the backplate as you suggested

I guess in order to do an apples to apples comparison I really need to get an RSD 12...

[VW337]

I guess in order to do an apples to apples comparison I really need to get an RSD 12...

You won't believe the difference until you hear it first hand. You will not be disappointed either.

[BH]

I really like the sound I get out of my Xenon it blends w/ my Ti Elite front stage perfectly.. I have it in about 2 cu ft sealed for a 10 though.

not sure what the RSd flaws are tho.

the only thing i dont love about the rsd is it can't seem to hold extended low bass notes as well as the xenon.

im attemting one more try with the xenon in my car before giving up

box should be done by the end of the week

[smgreen20]

So, you would suggest that I sell my XMAX 10 and replace it w/the RSD? I'm putting the ZX450v2, I have lying around, in my wifes car w/the XMAX 10 for the lowend and the Quart RSC213 set for the mid/high end. Have you ever heard a TREO sub? If you have, I'd enjoy a comparison of the two from your ears. I haven't heard (IMO) anything better. The SSi10 I have wants a sh!tload of power but has the best sound I've ever heard.

[stipud]

Hmmm... in my experience with the Quart 213's you will need a whole hell of a lot of upper bass to blend properly. The RSD and Xmax are two completely different sounding woofers... When I powered both of them off of my home amp to do an A/B comparison before I put them in the car, both woofers had very different characteristics.

The Xmax would let out a "pang" with every bass hit... it is very aggressive and punchy, so if you like fast metal bass drums it is the perfect speaker. This woofer became distorted and would play shifted notes on the bottom end, especially on long notes, but had quite a bit more upper bass than the RSD. I can tell you from my experience these woofers will blend PERFECTLY with Quart 213's, as I have installed these two together in at least three cars now.

The RSD on the other hand is quite neutral and musical... it hits every note and sticks them down hard, but it is much more modest in how it projects the note. The bottom end on this thing is great, without going "too" low, like the Xenon, and then giving up all of it's high output. This thing is almost a 50/50 between a Xenon and a Ti woofer... with the smoothness and bottom end of a Xenon, but more upper bass and the looks of a Ti. I think they've finally hit the nail on the head with this one, definitely.

So which would I choose... well, put in what is best to her musical tastes. If she is a metal head like my girlfriend, or just listens to aggressive, punchy music, she will love the Xmax. If she listens to less aggressive, smoother stuff, or music with more low end (e.g. Rap), then the RSD is ideal.

Sorry, I haven't heard the Treo myself, but from what I have heard through others, I would imagine it has a similar output to the Ti subs.

[smgreen20]

So which would I choose... well, put in what is best to her musical tastes. If she is a metal head like my girlfriend, or just listens to aggressive, punchy music, she will love the Xmax. If she listens to less aggressive, smoother stuff, or music with more low end (e.g. Rap), then the RSD is ideal.

Dude........ ....She listens to cunt.....cunt.....cuntry.
It scares me that I don't mind a lot of it anymore.

[stipud]

I don't even know what to suggest for that... Gah.

Well country certainly doesn't have pounding aggressive bass. I guess you may as well run with the Xmax and see how you like it. If you want something more neutral and smooth, you can always swap it for an RSD later.

[VW337]

If she listens to cunt-tree just buy her a nice set of noise isolating headphones that way you don't have to subject anybody else to that abuse.

[fuzzysnuggleduck]

If she is a metal head like my girlfriend

She's not JUST a metal head... don't sell your woman short Tom, she likes a plethora of music

[stipud]

If she is a metal head like my girlfriend

She's not JUST a metal head... don't sell your woman short Tom, she likes a plethora of music

Haha. "My woman"... hurr... we are men on the internet... hurrrffdurrrrf...

I didn't say she was JUST a metal head, but she certainly is one. If you ask her what type of person she is, she will say metal head. I made the mistake of calling her a skater once... bad idea. Anyways, I was just looking for an excuse to brag about having a girlfriend you bastard, so stop raining on my parade.

Anyways, she did LOVE my Xmax 12's... They were pretty brutal though. Way too loud for the rest of the music. She really likes the RSD 10 as well. It's the slightest bit better than the IDMax on metal, mostly due to the size.

[bdubs767]

She really likes the RSD 10 as well. It's the slightest bit better than the IDMax on metal, mostly due to the size.

The RSd 12 is slightly better too, I think it has more to do w/ the cone. In my experience with woofers now I have always found the paper cones to be slower then poly or metal cones.

[VW337]

In my experience with woofers now I have always found the paper cones to be slower then poly or metal cones.

You have been listening to the wrong woofers then. Paper/pulp is still my favorite.

[smgreen20]

Well country certainly doesn't have pounding aggressive bass.

You haven't heard Rascal Flatts "What hurts the most" then, have you? At least download the song, copy it to a disc and take a listen.

[stipud]

Well country certainly doesn't have pounding aggressive bass.

You haven't heard Rascal Flatts "What hurts the most" then, have you? At least download the song, copy it to a disc and take a listen.

No way country will EVER be played in my car

I do believe you though... I've seen Bigbassman's video of his car pounding out bass from country music. Generally speaking though, country isn't meant to have pounding low decibels like rap or electronica.