RSd Competition 12

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VW337
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RSd Competition 12

Post by VW337 »

Please note that I am using a 2.2cuft sealed enclosure fully loaded with poly-fil. This is not the ideal enclosure for this driver and I have yet to go over the TS parameters to get an idea how it should perform in this box.

Also note that I am sending a very weak signal to an X600.1 so max capability can not be reached at the moment.

First look-
This driver is very simple in appearance as a great speaker should be, it has a satin black finish on the cone and has a slight texture to the semi-gloss powder coating on the cast aluminum basket. A nice logo adorns the dust cover on the front of the driver while a metallic sticker tidy’s up the back plate. The driver features a very strong single (what appears to be a Nomex) spider, I would have preferred to see two spiders on a driver of this magnitude but it is what it is. The voice coil appears to be 2 inches in diameter and the material is not discernable without factory input but it appears to be a black anodized aluminum which is a great plus in the cooling properties. At the top of the voice coil former and at the base of the cone are several vents allowing additional cooling as well as removing any possibility of a trapped pocket of air to create pressure variations while the driver is moving. The pole vent is huge, a small family of vermin could live there, the edge is smoothed over to remove the possibility of noise as the air passes over it. The motor assembly consists of a double stacked ceramic magnet with a bumped back plate. Additional information is not available at the moment without taking the driver apart, so any further info will need to be from PG themselves or at your own discovery.

There are a few firsts for PG with this driver most noticeable is the surround which catches your attention the moment the packing the is opened. You are presented very unique surround which is similar in design to what can been seen on the IDMax however the PG variation has a smoother peak to it where the ID design is more pointed, this minor detail allows the surround to extend in a more uniform manner and I would venture a guess that this lowers the possibility of noise from the surround and also keeps the cone edge more uniform while travelling. I would love to have seen this surround attached to the under side of the cone which would have aided in the above mention of reduced surround noise, but to my surprise this is not a possibility. You may ask why well, it is because PG has used a very state of the art method of production to create the cone that is used on this driver. The cone at first glance is very thick this is why the surround can not be mounted underneath, this thickness would typically mean a very heavy cone. Further inspection shows this cone is more than you would believe, the cone is similar to foam, the process used to make the cone is very unusual basically the material (in this case I would guess a mica loaded polypropylene) is mixed with a gas until a foam is created then this foam is injected into a mold and the final result is exceptionally light and very rigid. The bubbles in the matrix add to this rigidity in the same fashion cross bracing does on a bridge. I would guess this cone could support the weight of an average weight person standing on it without it crushing; additionally I would suspect the cone is lighter than the one used on the standard RSd subs.

As mentioned earlier the spider which is used on this driver is very strong this means a few hours of play time will yield the best results; I didn’t want to wait so don’t take this as a final verdict. I tossed some music at it immediately, Akon, E-40, Robb Zombie, Fatboy-Slim, Moloko, and some Aphrodite were the first artists used. In the low notes this thing is as subtle as somebody grabbing your crotch and telling you to “walk this way”. In the Overlapping notes created by Aphrodite the sub was less than happy, the notes are processed but are well finalized and the original RSd performs amazingly well on them, the RSdC was not so smooth here. Going on to a bit of E-40 who typically has 2-3 notes in repetition with very different frequency ranges, this sub performed amazing in fact I noticed a few subtlies that the original RSd did not pick up on. Moloko proved to be blissful to listen to, the sub jumped when needed and went unnoticed when not called upon. Some subtle passages in Fatboy Slims palookaville ablum proved to be very accurate and transparent. Robb Zombie’s fast attack on the low notes seemed to please this sub.

I would rate this sub very high in accuracy, the very low notes are not fully relaxed yet due to the spider still being in need of proper break in. Overall this sub performs every bit as well as it’s little brother but has a crispness to the sound which I just can’t explain. I would suggest using a smaller box than I have used in testing as I would guess the enclosure I have used may tend to create some uneven response lines near the 45-50hz region. I would also advise the use of a 12db XO at 60 HZ, I advise this shallow cut off because this sub plays very clean in the upper bass region but will be very over-powering if you run it at a higher XO point and use a sharper cutoff.


I will follow up with more once the break in has been properly completed.
I think we've established that "Ka Ka" and "Tukki Tukki" don't work.
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Post by fuzzysnuggleduck »

Good clean review, Errin.
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Post by Bfowler »

I will write a reveiw of this review later.
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stipud
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Post by stipud »

So how much did they pay you... Just kidding :wink:... well put.

Do you think I am insane for wanting to try one at 250 watts? I have a 1.1cuft prefab enclosure that I used to run my IDMax in. I would love to see how the two woofers compare with each other. Compared to my standard RSD, the IDMax was a beast on the low notes, but couldn't handle the upper bass regions with clarity at my power levels. I would be interested to see how the RSDc manages with low power like this.
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Post by Bfowler »

i think it wont be too happy. it sounded underpowered on the 600.1 to me also. if only you had another large ti amp that could power it...
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Post by stipud »

Bfowler wrote:i think it wont be too happy. it sounded underpowered on the 600.1 to me also. if only you had another large ti amp that could power it...
Golly, if only :roll: :lol:
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Post by bdubs767 »

great review errin, nice to see you still have some time to play with subs, despite the house :)

I think its time I do my own little test :twisted: :twisted:
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Post by bdubs767 »

Bfowler wrote:dont want to hijack, i will ask him and post in the original thread. either way its still in a box about .7 CF too big for it

that should help the low end though
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Post by Bfowler »

the lowe nd is by no means lacking. it is still quite insane. the rsd was in the same box before it, so all i was saying is it wasnt as low as a rsd12 in a 2.2cf.

i only listened to it the first day, i will make errin drive at lunch today.
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Post by bdubs767 »

Bfowler wrote:i will make errin drive at lunch today.
aww, little date.
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Post by Bfowler »

sky rockets in flight....afternoon delight hey hey

Afternoon Delight
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Post by VW337 »

Bfowler-

I think you can have the first ever RSd12 proto to leave PG. I am in love with the comp12 it may have some man-u-naise on it......

__________________________________

So after 3-4 hours of play time this feller relaxes a bit and has a certain life to it that I can't explain, it is tight and almost methodical on certain notes; I have never heard a sub with this sound.

I would really like to see a free air response graph on this sub, as I would be willing to say this sub would do well in a large SQ ported enclosure or even IB.



On subtle notes there is no suggestion that there is a speaker creating the sound you are hearing, it is just there. Low notes have force behind them without sounding forced, and quick notes are snappy a detailed.





PG EMPLOYEES WHO READ THIS, I HIGHLY SUGGEST AN 8inch VERSION OF THIS SUB, you have a market for it if you make it.




OVERALL-- Based on cosmetics, sound, and price this sub gets a 9 out of 10.

If a few steps where taken to clean up the motor structure and leave it bare instead of covering it, I would give this sub a 10 overall. The rear boot looks better in person than in photos but it does not belong on a competition sub: first because it insulates the motor which contradicts the cooling purposes of all the vents, second in most installations the boot is not seen and many installers will throw it away because of afore mentioned heat retaining properties, if the sub is a true comp sub the installs it will go into will be flashy the rear of the speaker is commonly seen and a bit of finish work goes a long way.


It has been a long time since I listened to the 12dElite or the IDQ's, the most recent subs I have experience with are the RSd, Xenon, and Alchemy, but of these I have to say the RSd12comp is the winner. It blends well with mids, it performs well on moderate power, it has very accurate and detailed performance, and it's cone won't dent.



Most Importantly, I would buy one (and will) presented the options available on the market today.
I think we've established that "Ka Ka" and "Tukki Tukki" don't work.
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Post by bdubs767 »

spank you errin

time to order one or two :twisted: :twisted:

Guess Ill do two, I can try them sealed, single sealed and both IB :twisted:
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Post by stipud »

Errin/Brian, do you know if the RSD grilles would clear this woofer? If not, will there be an RSD comp grille, or am I SOL? If it fits the grille I will probably replace my 10, but if not I will install it in my spare prefab 12" box for a test.
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Post by stipud »

VW337 wrote:PG EMPLOYEES WHO READ THIS, I HIGHLY SUGGEST AN 8inch VERSION OF THIS SUB, you have a market for it if you make it.
I would love the shit out of that... however, what about a 15"? SPL guys are nutso for them, though I would personally much rather see an array of smaller drivers.
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Post by Bfowler »

stipud wrote:Errin/Brian, do you know if the RSD grilles would clear this woofer? If not, will there be an RSD comp grille, or am I SOL? If it fits the grille I will probably replace my 10, but if not I will install it in my spare prefab 12" box for a test.
i DOUBT it, but i will check for you. as far as i know, they is no grill being made for it
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Post by VW337 »

I did some quick graphs over lunch-

this beast can get a 8db rise at 45hz, in a 3.2 cuft ported enclosure with a 12x2 opening and 10 inch port length.

In the same 3.2 cuft enclosure but do not recall the port dimensions IIRC 20cu inches of displacement, it will give you ruler flat response down to 17hz with an additional 2db of output across the board.
I think we've established that "Ka Ka" and "Tukki Tukki" don't work.
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Post by bdubs767 »

VW337 wrote:I did some quick graphs over lunch-

this beast can get a 8db rise at 45hz, in a 3.2 cuft ported enclosure with a 12x2 opening and 10 inch port length.

In the same 3.2 cuft enclosure but do not recall the port dimensions IIRC 20cu inches of displacement, it will give you ruler flat response down to 17hz with an additional 2db of output across the board.
did you graph it IB?
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Post by VW337 »

I have no way of realistically graphing IB other than putting it into a 20+cuft sealed enclosure to see what happens.
I think we've established that "Ka Ka" and "Tukki Tukki" don't work.
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Post by stipud »

VW337 wrote:I have no way of realistically graphing IB other than putting it into a 20+cuft sealed enclosure to see what happens.
Try 100ft... works for me :lol:
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Post by bdubs767 »

stipud wrote:
VW337 wrote:I have no way of realistically graphing IB other than putting it into a 20+cuft sealed enclosure to see what happens.
Try 100ft... works for me :lol:
why not a 1000ft :D

my trunk is 18 cu ft so 20 would be close.
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Post by bdubs767 »

hmm with "in car" effect looks like designing a box for a qtc of .707 which is almost 2 cu ft would work quite well. It nearly plays flat with a slight boast in the 35 to 40hz range. As for IB in a 20 cu ft trunk seems to work pretty well as the driver plays lower it will increase in decibles, about 3 db from 70hz to 20hz and only needs about 170 watts to have it reach full excursion. The original Rsd does look a little better for IB as it has a slightly flatter response and a little better total Q of .6 compared to the RSdc .52
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Post by VW337 »

I went back to my graphs, and if you do a 3.2 cuft enclosure and place a 6x1 opening with 10 inch length it will give you the flat response to 17hz I mentioned previously.

However the in car graph shows a nearly 13db rise at 20hz.


Now an in-car IB graph shows a 6db rise at 20hz :shock:
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Post by Mackenzie »

stipud wrote:
VW337 wrote:PG EMPLOYEES WHO READ THIS, I HIGHLY SUGGEST AN 8inch VERSION OF THIS SUB, you have a market for it if you make it.
I would love the shit out of that... however, what about a 15"? SPL guys are nutso for them, though I would personally much rather see an array of smaller drivers.
This is why I havent had a pg sub in quite some time. No 15s...
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