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 Post subject: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:32 pm 
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I should have done this a very long time ago, but I finally got around to updating my leaking cap tutorial...

http://www.soundbuggy.com/Eric/Car%20Audio/leaking_capacitor_tutorial/index.html

As always, any comments, suggestions, finding of typos, or questions are welcome.



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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:48 pm 
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Thanks for the update Eric, did you give up on the Chipquik?



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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:57 am 
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I only use Chipquik for the large rail capacitors, or any multi-pinned parts I need to remove (like a PWM controller for example). It is not needed for the smaller input supply capacitors, with the technique I show.



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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:27 pm 
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I like the small"needle nose" you use with one hand, while using other hand with iron. I think, from experience, theres NEVER too many tutorials on cap replacement- thanx for sharing!!!:)



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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:32 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:29 pm
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Here are a few pics of my Outlaw I just did.
It cannot be stressed enough that these caps need to be changed.
If you cannot afford to change them right now. Do your board a favor and follow the directions and remove the old caps and clean the board.
Just because you cannot see that they are leaking. They are.
You can see the board damage from leaking on the M50 side :(
Image
And all the fluid that was under the caps on the M100 side.
Image
I added the cap to the M50 side that would not fit vertically like this.
If anyone thinks this will be a problem LMK and I will remove it.
Image
And the M100 side all done.
These earlier boards are more delicate. So be careful and take your time.
I had to repair a via. on each board.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:48 pm 
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i would silicone or hot glue it down to keep it from breaking the leads from vibration.



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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:53 pm 
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do you think I should do my QX series amps? They're a *bit* more recent, but not much...

Bret


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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:34 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:29 pm
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Quote:
i would silicone or hot glue it down to keep it from breaking the leads from vibration.

Has already been done :wink:

Quote:
do you think I should do my QX series amps? They're a *bit* more recent, but not much...

I don't think they use the same caps. It is all the early amps that use the 2200uF caps on the power supply. M, MS/MPS/MQ/MAC, ZPA, ZX & ZXti.


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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:14 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:29 pm
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I listened to the fruits of my labor last night.
WOW. The amp sounded amazing !!


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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:05 am 
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it alway's sound's better when you do it yourself and it works :)



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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:33 pm 
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wooferdog wrote:
it alway's sound's better when you do it yourself and it works :)


100% true!! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:56 pm 
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I think you would have been find leaving the cap standing up. I know with the caps I use, I can get 4 in a M50 and not have any height issues. I put 4 in my Outlaw as well.



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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Eric; THANKS for your time and efford to [again] help out others here. :clap:
This method is indeed far better then the original one. Three things I'd like to bring forward;
-I do advice to replace the railcaps simply because they too have a limited lifespan, beeing chemical products and when you're going to recap; go all the way IMO.
-In every amp I serviced I always replaced the silpads; they usually stick to the sink, and will leave a small print [material] there after removal. For cleaning purposes and for cleaning and chamfering the holes I always remove them and replace. This way I am sure every device is having the best contact with the sink again after screwing them down to the sink.
-I may have overlooked it in your text; applying more heat [higher temp.] to the solderings which are connected to the larger contact-areas and less heat [lower temp.] on the smaller pads is crucial for good flowing of the solder, while preventing to overheat the smaller ones.
I started recapping MS amps years ago after reading your first tutorial; I'm happy to see that the latest methods are integrated into this new one; GREAT WORK!
[pic; harvest of a bussy evening :wink: ]
Nico


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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Nico,

Thanks for the kind words. In the tutorial, I state why I am against replacing rail caps. Far too many people damage their amp replacing them, so I do my best to discourage people from doing this.

When you remove a rail cap, if you damage one of the vias, the power supply can become out of balance. With either a positive or negative rail missing, certain components which reside in the circuit count on a balanced power between them. With one rail missing, too much voltage reaches a lot of parts and damages them. I have had MANY people send me their amps to fix once they tried to replace the rail caps themselves. It is not a matter of just fixing the via, I have to spend a lot of time tracking down all the other components which have been damaged.

So, I do agree, if you are working on your amp, it is good to go all the way and do some preventative maintenance as well. However, I feel this should only be done by those who know what they are doing. Any time a novice tries to replace their rail caps, they open themselves up for a very big mess.



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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:03 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:33 pm
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Thanks for the write up Eric. I had no previous experience with soldering or circuit boards but your guide gave me the confidence to tackle this on my own. I watched a bunch of videos on YouTube on how to properly solder and I jumped right in. Everything turned out wonderfully and my 16 year old zx500 is still going strong 8) I picked up a zx200 off of ebay for $100 and recapped it as well. Fun stuff! I even bought a little am/fm radio soldering kit just for the heck of it. Only thing I did differently is I bought a de-soldering iron, they are only $12 at Radio Shack. Once I sucked the solder off the bottom the caps popped right off the top. I didn't have to pull them apart or anything. Thanks for the help!!

Image
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731&filterName=Type&filterValue=Desoldering#

Finished product 8)
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:54 am 
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Thanks for sharing your experience, I might just try one of those as well. There's always room for improvement right? :clap:
Fine looking amps btw, enjoy!


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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:59 pm 
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In my experience, even the best solder sucker leaves solder between the pin and the side wall of the via. When you then remove the cap, it takes this part of the via with it. Unless the solder sucker works so well the cap actually FALLS out of the hole when you flip the board over, it will be leaving enough solder to damage something.

The only way which has worked for me is to remove the pins hot, so the solder does not stick to the via and damage it.



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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:19 pm 
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My experience as well so far....
The opinions about this device range from "best buy" to "do not recommend". The method you describe and which I used to recap many amps simply works without any risk of damaged via's.... everytime.
Nontheless I will give it a try, starting on a old board and find out.


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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:13 am 
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I started recapping a MS275 last night. I can't believe how easy it was removing the caps by rocking and then pulling them out! Hardly any force was needed, the leads just slipped out of the caps :D

Thanx for the tutorial!

This MS275 is rev. H so its relatively new and has hardly been used at all. Still there was some fluid under the caps.


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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:22 am 

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greetings all..... im brand new to this forum.....read all the treads about re-capping so i wanna give my ms2125 some new caps.....also i have a sapphire 3,0 ....does this also suffer from leaking caps? in that case which one need replacements? both the 7 small ones and the 4 big...?
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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:48 am 
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I do not have any experience with the sapphire series.....Eric?


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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:56 pm 
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So I've decided to replace the caps in all my amps since I am finaly starting to install my gear, now I see every one is using larger then stock values, is there really any reason to do so other then the new 2200uf are a lot smaller then the originals?


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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:14 pm 
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Even better noise rejection, but you could also choose to stay with the original value; that's up to you.
When you look at every upgrade- post made for amps, wether in car or home equipment, you always see larger values beeing used. Manufacturers tend to use the smallest value possible, since that keeps the cost down.
This is not a wildcard to put bigger value caps everywhere though! In this case it's a proven fact that using larger caps will only have benefits and no negative effects for you car amp. This is already explained earlier in several other posts, but like I said; choose for yourself.
Nico.


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 Post subject: Re: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:57 am 
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I am doing caps in my outlaw and bandit , I noticed the m50 side and the bandit only have 3 caps in , but room for 4. Jammer750 pics show 4 installed. Can anyone explain this ? Does it help/ hurt ?



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 Post subject: Leaking capacitor tutorial update
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:27 am 
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I think the smaller value caps are better for higher frequency noise filtering if the PS caps do anything other than hold reserves of energy for the power supply... I think I have used the 8200 uf 16 volt caps in my MS amps...


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