Phoenix Gold Phorum

Wouldn't something like this be a whole hell of a lot better??

>GAS WAR - an idea that WILL work
>
>This was originally sent by a retired Coca Cola executive. It came
from one
>of his engineer buddies who retired from Halliburton. It ' s worth
your
>consideration.
>
>Join the resistance!!!! I hear we are going to hit close to $4.00 a
gallon
>by next summer and it might go higher!! Want gasoline prices to come
down?
>We need to take some intelligent, united action. Phillip Hollsworth
offered
>this good idea.
>
>This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the "don't buy gas on a certain day"
>campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies
just
>laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to "hurt"
ourselves
>by refusing to buy gas. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it
was a
>problem for them.
>
>BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can
really
>work. Please read on and join wi th us! By now you're probably
thinking
>gasoline
>priced at about $1.50 is super cheap. Me too! It is currently $2.79
for
>regular unleaded in my town. Now that the oil companies and the OPEC
>nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a gallon of gas
is
>CHEAP at $1.50 - $1.75, we need to take aggressive action to teach
them
>that BUYERS control the
>marketplace..... not sellers. With the price of gasoline going up more
each
>day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to
see the
>price of gas come down is if we hit someone in the pocketbook by not
>purchasing their gas! And, we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves.
How?
>Since we all rely on our cars, we can't just stop buying gas. But we
CAN
>have an impact on gas prices if we all act together to force a price
war.
>
>Here's the idea:
>
>For the rest of this year, DON'T purchase ANY gasoline from the two
biggest
>companies (which now are one), EXXON and MOBIL. If they are not
selling any
>gas, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce
their
>prices, the other companies will have to follow suit.
>
>But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of Exxon
and
>Mobil gas buyers. It's really simple to do! Now, don't wimp out at
this
>point.... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach
millions
>of people.
>
>I am sending this note to 30 people. If each of us sends it to at
least ten
>more (30 x 10 =3D 300) ... and those 300 send it to at least ten more
(300
>x 10 =3D 3,000)...and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth
>group of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers. If
>those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each,
then
>30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level
further,
>you guessed it..... THREE
> >>>>HUNDRED MILLION >>>>PEOPLE!!!
>
>Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all. (If
you
>don't understand how we can reach 300 million and all you have to do
is
>send this to 10 people.... Well, let's face it, you just aren't a
>mathematician. But I am, so trust me on this one.)
>
>How long would all that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to
ten
>more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could
>conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!!
>
>I'll bet you didn't think you and I
>had that much potential, di d you?
>
>Acting together we can make a difference. If this makes sense to you,
>please pass this message on. I suggest that we not buy from
EXXON/MOBIL
>UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE $1.30 RANGE AND KEEP THEM DOWN.
>
>THIS CAN REALLY WORK.

Might I add that Exxon has been breaking profit records latley. Now tell me they are not controling the damn profits.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11098458/

I wouldn't work. We would run the other few suppliers out of gas and then they'd just raise their prices and buy Exxon and BP's surplus.

We could start a referendum that any Government officials taking money from big oil will be crucified in a public square then yo might get some interests, since they are getting some of the billions paid back to them to through big election campaigns.

OR a threat to Federalize the gas and motor fuel industries, thus making it need a act of congress to raise gas prices.

We just need to clean the White House its being Leased by a Texas oil man currently...

1moreamp wrote:We could start a referendum that any Government officials taking money from big oil will be crucified in a public square then yo might get some interests, since they are getting some of the billions paid back to them to through big election campaigns.

OR a threat to Federalize the gas and motor fuel industries, thus making it need a act of congress to raise gas prices.

We just need to clean the White House its being Leased by a Texas oil man currently...

Agreed, did you know that the dairy association is now pushing to be de-regulated so they can artificialy inflate the price of milk just like the price of oil??? How about we switch the 2, regulate oil and de-regulate milk??!!

This has nothing to do with government. This has everything to do with the consumer. Consumers are willing to pay $4.00 a gallon, and it would be dumb of big oil to not charge that to maximize profits.

Companies are in business to make money. They don’t do it for fun, or to help the little guy. Would you voluntarily ask your boss to pay you less for what you do? Or how about work for free?

If government stepped in and regulated things, it would violate the laws of capitalism. The system would fail, just as it has done in countries like Cuba, or Russia.

I look to see gas prices go to $6.00, $7.00, on and on. People are willing to pay it, so I applaud the oil companies for taking advantage of their stupidity.

Eric D wrote:This has nothing to do with government. This has everything to do with the consumer. Consumers are willing to pay $4.00 a gallon, and it would be dumb of big oil to not charge that to maximize profits.

That's as much of a cop out as solely blaming the oil companies or the government.

Of course people are "willing to pay" the current gas prices. People will be willing to pay whatever gas costs as long as they actually can financially afford to do so because life as we know it, DEPENDS on gas. It's not a "nice to have" commodity, it's a basic necessity of life in the 1st world.

People need to get places to live their lives. People have jobs they need to get to, to put food on the table. Not going to work because you refuse to pay a few more cents a gallon is not an option for the majority of people in this position. And public transport isn't the solution as their operating costs are also dependent on fuel costs. Gas goes up, the cost of riding the bus goes up.

I'm all for allowing capitalism to do it's thing but oil isn't just another product that most people can choose to buy or not buy in this society we've built. Oil companies can get away with any price they want because the entire society is totally dependent on their product.

Oil companies of course know this, so they milk it for all it's worth. The rules of capitalism say this is fine and dandy but we all know many, many people have their hands in this pot and it's not pure capitalism at work here, there's a lot of "bending" going on and artificial factors being introduced among the normal market factors. It's a collective effort by the few to gouge the many.... simply because they can. In my books, that's immoral. Fuck laws and capitalistic rules of market when they're all just in place to keep things the way they are: The rich, rich and the poor, poor.

I don't have solutions or answers for any of this, but something tells me that we need to move away from this dependence on oil for it to be a market truly governed by the rules of capitalism. The supply/demand model gets severely fucked in the ass when demand become need and supply an artificially adjusted number.

ahh yeah and all this while the American economy goes third world because of corporate greed.

ENRON was a lesson well learned about Government cover ups and who owns who in Washington DC. The government regulates how much alcohol is in your beer for God's sake so why not some of the other basics like gasoline pricing.

Lets look at how little our Government does NOT interfere with Capitalism.

Humm.. let me see where do i start. They regulate the phone companies, the electric companies, The FDA tells you what you can eat and consume especially if its has to do with medicine.
Ahh lets look at TV they regulate what you view with public standards, and how fast you drive interstate highways, and maximum speeds on speedometers, and crash tests on cars and How Insurance companies sell and settle claims.

Do I need to go on ? The federal government regulates your very existence daily by rules and regs all honest people have to live by or go to prison for regulated terms of imprisonment.

Capitalism is something to be regulated also, just try and see what it takes to start a real business up and you will see what I mean. Be realistic, price goughing is price goughing.
ENRON did it by buying and reselling California's own electricity back to us at $1000.00 per kilo-watt hour. Oil companies are posting huge profits. as large or larger in scale then ENRON did and they lied.

Criminal behavior is criminal behavior. weather it be EXXON or ENRON please explain the difference to us ???

The US Government regulates the time of day Man, Wake up and smell the fricking coffee. Capitalism is the financial springboard of Democracy. And Democracy is the ruler here not some fat cat prick that has no concern about weather fixed income people eat cat food because of outrageous fuel costs.

Lets think about that a minute in their shoes Duh, Heat or food ? which do i want DUH???

Oh I also remember something about " WE THE PEOPLE " in our checkered history. When EXXON tells me how to live I am personally going to war with them. As they do not represent me or my government.

Theres a great difference in being asked to pay a higher price and being forced to eat it everyday take it or leave it. Gas prices are out of sight for absolutely no good reason except greed. theres plenty of it and its not the Arabs cause they only represent 17% of American oil usage.

Were buying new jet plains for oil companies, and wonderful golden parachutes for old farts that have it all already. Oh and all the new drilling equipment the oil company's wanted to buy. Because its cheaper to drill a hole 15,000 feet under water than to do business elsewhere on dry land.

Yeah right ! Capitalism is just business, not a governmental ruling entity. And capitalism can be regulated as much as anything else. It just takes strong willed people in the Government to do so. In fact capitalism is ruled and regulated all day long as long as those making the rules are not on the take.....

Welcome to America !

Doc, I agree, the government should not get involved in such matters, but they do. Just take farmers for instance. Some get paid to NOT produce milk or grains on thier farms because of government regulation. Also, how about the government bailing out Chrysler in the 70's? If we truley had a free market they would have been left alone to die. Personally I think it would be better that way.

I think we should threaten to take away all of the tax breaks from the big oil companies again. Last time we did that the price magically droped, IMAGINE THAT!!

Me in "08"

I'll fix things or be killed off..................

killed off

The gov't CAN do something about it, but as stated, they get $$ back and that's like cutting off your tounge. All I can save is going into an account through the summer to save for gas $$ in the winter. I'm buying a bike to get to and from work. 4 miles one way wouldn't be all that bad. But this gas thing IS/WILL ruin this country. Gas is a necessity, not an acessory.

smgreen20 wrote:The gov't CAN do something about it, but as stated, they get $$ back and that's like cutting off your tounge. All I can save is going into an account through the summer to save for gas $$ in the winter. I'm buying a bike to get to and from work. 4 miles one way wouldn't be all that bad. But this gas thing IS/WILL ruin this country. Gas is a necessity, not an acessory.

Your right, we are at War right now, And War is good business, unfortunately someone has to pay for it, and that someone is us. And the big G makes a clean 20% off all those billions in oil profit, thats how you not raise tax's just raise prices and take in the extra taxable income from it.

1moreamp wrote:

smgreen20 wrote:The gov't CAN do something about it, but as stated, they get $$ back and that's like cutting off your tounge. All I can save is going into an account through the summer to save for gas $$ in the winter. I'm buying a bike to get to and from work. 4 miles one way wouldn't be all that bad. But this gas thing IS/WILL ruin this country. Gas is a necessity, not an acessory.

Your right, we are at War right now, And War is good business, unfortunately someone has to pay for it, and that someone is us. And the big G makes a clean 20% off all those billions in oil profit, thats how you not raise tax's just raise prices and take in the extra taxable income from it.

A lot of people are "paying" for the war. Civilians are just one group. I agree with your statements but I just thought that should be said. Certainly another group paying for the war are the military units involved directly in the fighting and loosing their lives. Civilians just pay differently, not with their lives but with their freedoms and money. At least many do. The few always profit, but I don't think that's something that will ever really change.

I usually don't like discussing politics online.

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:

1moreamp wrote:

smgreen20 wrote:The gov't CAN do something about it, but as stated, they get $$ back and that's like cutting off your tounge. All I can save is going into an account through the summer to save for gas $$ in the winter. I'm buying a bike to get to and from work. 4 miles one way wouldn't be all that bad. But this gas thing IS/WILL ruin this country. Gas is a necessity, not an acessory.

Your right, we are at War right now, And War is good business, unfortunately someone has to pay for it, and that someone is us. And the big G makes a clean 20% off all those billions in oil profit, thats how you not raise tax's just raise prices and take in the extra taxable income from it.

A lot of people are "paying" for the war. Civilians are just one group. I agree with your statements but I just thought that should be said. Certainly another group paying for the war are the military units involved directly in the fighting and loosing their lives. Civilians just pay differently, not with their lives but with their freedoms and money. At least many do. The few always profit, but I don't think that's something that will ever really change.

I usually don't like discussing politics online.

We were discussing politics ???? I thought this was a State of the Union comment section

And you are very much correct about the under paid, and under benefited Men and Women of the armed forces. They don't receive life-long benefits and pay like our great politicians do. Totally unfair when you compare how much the armed forces put into their work as opposed to crooked politicians, always looking to cut the budget at others expense, but never their own...
You know people in the 60's actually thought they changed things for the better here in America. I wonder what the older hippy group thinks and feels now ???

Great point though Fuzz, thank you for not forgetting those who have paid the ultimate price and those that face that everyday, Shite always rolls down hill on them. May God Bless them, Please ?


PS gas is already $3.50 a gallon here today at one corner and $3.35 at the other, go figure on that the refinery is just 40 miles up the road. Oh and its $3.79 in San Francisco as of today, and the refinery is only 14 miles away from them, Duh ????

Or you can just read snopes and find out why this chain email from years ago just won't work.

Where I live, the highway speed limit is 70 MPH. Most people blow past me like I am standing still, going 80 MPH+. I drive 65 MPH tops, typically a bit over 60 MPH. I drive a full size truck. I try to organize my day such that after work I get supplies on the way home, instead of making special trips.

Back when I had a car I drove between 75 MPH, and 80 MPH. I could make 3 trips to work and back. Work was 55 miles each way. After a discussion with my Dad, I cut my speed back to 65 MPH. I could then go 4 trips to work and back, just by cutting off 10 MPH. It took me only slightly longer to get to work, or get home.

If people are so wasteful with gas, then let them pay big prices.

Food for thought…

Each night in my town at around 6:00 PM on any given day, you can’t find a seat in a restaurant. They are packed. Every single person I know other then just a small handful own a cell phone, many have more than one.

People are wasteful, and are creating their own problems.

I seldom eat out, and I don’t own a cell phone, or even a land based phone. Am I perfect, hell no! But, the money I save from these unnecessary items I can put towards gas, so I have little to complain about.

If everyone readjusted their spending, their lives would be pretty easy, and gas would be one of the least items to bitch about.

So, your OK with the fact that the gas moguls are taking up all of your extra money that could be spent on eating out and geting a phone? I'm not!!! I don't want to have to cut back because I'm over paying these assholes that are putting up record profits every new quarter. I want to be able to spend my money on things I want, not overpay for the necessities.

If I owned stock in the oil company I would be pleased for sure.

Does the United States Constitution say anywhere in it that Americans are entitled to affordable gas prices? My guess is no.

I was born in the USA, and although I am quite young relatively speaking, I have never come across anything giving me the impression businesses of any kind owe me anything.

They can charge what ever they want for gas, so long as it is actually available and in the pump, and I don’t have to be limited to only 5 gallons, or wait in a line for 5 hours, I have nothing to bitch about.

If it manages to get to a point where I cannot afford it any longer, I always have the option of riding my bike. Work now is much closer for me than before, only 25 miles, and the exercise would do me good.

While we are at it, why not throw in a little blurb about minimum wage and gas prices? I would love to see the oil companies raise gas prices $2 a gallon for every $1 dollar the minimum wage increases. Since a raise in minimum wage helps no one, and only hurts everyone by driving up inflation, I would enjoy seeing those who think it helps them (those earning minimum) end up being hurt since they are the ones least likely to be able to afford gas in the first place.

No one has any personal accountability anymore…

How about savings? Does anyone here save any money, or do they spend it all? At worst, higher gas prices just cut into my savings, which has no real affect on me other than the psychological one of knowing I can’t cover myself as long as before.

If gas prices fell by $1.50, that does not mean I have more money to get a cell phone, or other “fun” stuff. It just means I have more money in the bank, and can survive longer in the event I loose my job.

I personally save enough such that if I lost my job Monday, I would be able to cover all my bills (house payment, insurance, gas, food, utilities, etc) for a period of about 6 months. This is assuming no unemployment, or other income. Now, add in unemployment compensation, and some side income from fixing amps, computers, and other items, and I should be able to survive exactly as I do now for a year.

So if gas prices go up, it cuts into my “buffer”, which really just means I have to get off my ass quicker in the event I loose my job, and find another one.

In other words, I guess it makes me more personally accountable for what I do and how it affects my life.

Eric D wrote:This has nothing to do with government. This has everything to do with the consumer. Consumers are willing to pay $4.00 a gallon

For first time I agree w/ Doc. Here...

But the oil companies for the most part are controlled by OPEC which is a cartel and illegal in the USA. Which does in a sense destroy the "free market" on oil...so you could make an argument that they are ripping us off, but to be honest I don't believe. There is still enough of a free market on gas, which allows for supply and demand to run the market. Gas goes up because each year their are more drivers more cars on the road, and the suppliers are sure as hell not growing at the same rate. Simply when Demand increases so does price and quantity. Yes the suppliers can pump less gas, but there is no reason for them to do it.

If government stepped in and regulated things, it would violate the laws of capitalism. The system would fail, just as it has done in countries like Cuba, or Russia.

Once again Doc is dead on... Most Gov't regulation cause more problems for the by putting price floors and ceilings into the market, but I still am in favor of some of them but it's always a catch 22. Like for instance the govt regulating the market for corn, and saving the farms across the nation. Yes the tax payers and consumers did have to foot the bill and their was less corn on the market; but IMO worth it at times to save face for some industries in America.

Russia and Cuba are different situations... USSR little before my time but if I'm correct they did fail due to corruption more then anything else. Also cuba and china (even though now is basically a free market) are still around today. Perhaps the quality of life (but I also think our mass amount of resources has a factor with that too) we have but they are still around...

Also if USA regulated oil prices, it would cause shortages....and we'd repeat the same problems that America had back in the 70's w/ the oil shortages. It's been proven the USA regulation on the market caused the shortage at first then the oil companies tried to sqeeze the same results out of us by decreasing supply, but it back fired. Im little rusty on exactly how everything rolled out, but trying to point out that a govt regulted oil price would cause a shortage.

I look to see gas prices go to $6.00, $7.00, on and on. People are willing to pay it, so I applaud the oil companies for taking advantage of their stupidity.

I agree gas will continue to go up...
I don't not applaud any one for ripping off consumers or big corporations putting profits above all... this would be place which leads me into environmental issues, free trade, globlazation, ect....

But one thing DOC, that is bother me about your logic about this topic. You seem to be so high up on corporations bringing in profits above all and applauding them for it. Yet you hate how America outsources everything now??? seems like a catch 22 to me. I dont see how you can be for one and against the other.... lowering input cost = high profits plain and simple.

1moreamp wrote:

smgreen20 wrote:The gov't CAN do something about it, but as stated, they get $$ back and that's like cutting off your tounge. All I can save is going into an account through the summer to save for gas $$ in the winter. I'm buying a bike to get to and from work. 4 miles one way wouldn't be all that bad. But this gas thing IS/WILL ruin this country. Gas is a necessity, not an acessory.

Your right, we are at War right now, And War is good business, unfortunately someone has to pay for it, and that someone is us. And the big G makes a clean 20% off all those billions in oil profit, thats how you not raise tax's just raise prices and take in the extra taxable income from it.

I agree wars a joke....just keeps pushing econs of scale even further apart.

Anyone hear about haliburton moving their operations to fucking dubi how ever you spell it to avoid USA taxes Put them all on trail for fuckign treason....moving one of americas biggest military contracters out of the country along w/ I think it was 300 some troops who tax payers will pay for.

mr tibbs wrote:So, your OK with the fact that the gas moguls are taking up all of your extra money that could be spent on eating out and geting a phone? I'm not!!! I don't want to have to cut back because I'm over paying these assholes that are putting up record profits every new quarter. I want to be able to spend my money on things I want, not overpay for the necessities.

I honestly don't think they are ripping us off....it can be explained via supply and demande. They may be slightly but not like everyone makes it out to be.

USA Demand for gas keeps increasing thus the PRICE INCREASES too.

Eric D wrote:If I owned stock in the oil company I would be pleased for sure.

buy gas stock at any time high or low and you will make a profit....it's going keep going up no matter what until we find another power supply but w/ the people running this nation so tied up in oil why woudl they want another energy source?

I hate how we outsource everything now, because I work for a manufacturing company in the USA, and I want to keep my job.

I also hate it due to the lack of pride people once had. I remember when I was little it was the rage to buy something made in America, and if you had something made in Japan or even worse, China, you were embarrassed about it.

But above all, I believe in the free market, and if I loose my job due to outsourcing overseas, then so be it. It is my responsibility, and mine alone, to find a new job or switch gears and find a new career.

So, yeah, I am against outsourcing, but I am far more against government regulation of outsourcing.

I am not too happy with companies in China not having the pollution laws we do, and supplying a cheaper part while destroying the environment. But, I don’t think the government should step in to limit unfair practices, I just think consumers should step up to the plate and refuse to buy related products, something they will never do.

Sadly, the average American, and a large portion of people in all the other countries, are all ignorant, something which cannot be fixed.

“You can’t fix stupid”