use the x-over or not use the x-overs this is da question

audiogood · Post by **audiogood** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:54 pm

Ok sq guys ... My sp has an 3 way x-over. On it allowing me to run no x-overs on my mids .. tweets and woofers ... Now I know how I am going to run my set up... But how would all of you go with the same choice....

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:06 pm

I think you are asking if you should use active electronic x-overs rather then the passives but honestly its so broken up I am not sure......

do you have the amplifier channels and power needed to run them active? The problem you run into there is that you would need 6 channels of amplification to drive a left/right pair of speakers. That was one reason I liked the design of the diamond hex 3-ways is they offered a bi-amped capability.

audiogood · Post by **audiogood** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:20 pm

I am running an pg ti900.7 .. the vibe space are not bi amp ... But my a/d/s 234is can be bi amped ... The question I was asking is would you run amp direct to the speakers ( not use the x-overs not even on the tweeters)

Nils · Post by **Nils** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:31 am

audiogood wrote:I am running an pg ti900.7 .. the vibe space are not bi amp ... But my a/d/s 234is can be bi amped ... The question I was asking is would you run amp direct to the speakers ( not use the x-overs not even on the tweeters)

Yes you can but NOT without a active x-over, tweets is not happy when they go fullrange

Post by **smgreen20** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:10 am

So in effect, what you're asking is.... Passive or Active?

If you have the means, the tools, and the know how, Active, hands down 9/10 times.

Edit: This should've been posted in the Car Audio section rather the Lounge.

Post by **ttocs** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:45 am

Nils wrote:
audiogood wrote:I am running an pg ti900.7 .. the vibe space are not bi amp ... But my a/d/s 234is can be bi amped ... The question I was asking is would you run amp direct to the speakers ( not use the x-overs not even on the tweeters)
Yes you can but NOT without a active x-over, tweets is not happy when they go fullrange

No you do not want to run the speakers full range......... They are not designed to do that and will sound like crap. Some people will use the internal amplifier cross overs or an external electronic cross over, but you need to feed the freqs that the speakers are designed to play to the speakers while blocking out what it was not meant to play. Playing your tweets full-range would let the magik smoke out of them and then they will not play until you can put it back in, not an easy task.

audiogood · Post by **audiogood** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:16 am

Men u missed the point ... I know how I am going to set up my system .. the question is would u use the x-overs ... I asked this question because I was in to my local shop and they don't think that an system where all the speakers hook stright to the amps is possable .. when I know full dam well its Ben done b4 ... So I ask if your sp has an electronic x-over that limets the band with the amp runs at .... Would u still use the x-overs that came with the speakers ..

audiogood · Post by **audiogood** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:25 am

I run an ma audio deq31 it is my line driver sp and it has electronic x-overs ... Dam good ones to. It alows me to split so I can run tweets of my amp it has an bandpass so I can run just mids and send what's left to the subs ....

Post by **ttocs** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:41 am

to answer that question, I am currently using the cross overs that came with both sets of my diamond audio hex speakers and now plan on using the cross over on the Ti Elites I am replacing them with in my mustang. If you are a tweeker that likes to make adjustments then go for it, if you would rather connect the speakers and then listen to them then that is much easier.

audiogood · Post by **audiogood** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:11 pm

The amps are running ff ... They see an small amount of the full bandwith . In short the x-over is in the preamp side of things with the splits in frequency happen on the preamp in the singnal processer so that the amp never see the full bandwidth..

and thus we can now wire the tweeter to the amp without an x-over neaded... Same goes for midrange... And woofers ...

Post by **ttocs** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:02 pm

I have to read your posts 4 times to try and translate them to engrish and its just too dificult to understand what you are saying honestly. It again sounds like you are saying you will use an active electronic cross-over before the amp which yes is fine if you know what you are doing and know how to tune it, and enjoy doing it. It will take some time to get it right honestly. The high end componants cost more because they spend some time tuning the cross-over to make it sound right which is why I would recomend using them.

I am guessing you are trying to pound this out on a phone er something? Its really hard to understand what you are saying..... between all the dots.... If you could take a little more time, be complete in what you are trying to accomplish we will try to help you better rather then going round-and-round.

audiogood · Post by **audiogood** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:12 pm

Yes I use my phone ...... Next I was not asking for help on how I should hook my stuff up.... II WAS ASKING YOU TO HELP ME PROVE AN POINT ... WITCH IS AN ACTIVE SYSTEM CAN BE DONE AND WHEN IT IS DONE RIGHT NOTHING IS GOING TO BLOW UP . THE BOY,S AT JAM AUDIO IN BRUNSWICK MAINE SAY THAT IT CAN NOT BE DONE AT ALL AND THE SYSTEM WOULD BLOW UP.. The first time I did active sound system in my car I did it with an adcom 4 ch an carver 2ch and an realistic 3 way electronic x-over with a/d/s speakers.. I have Ben installing for 20+ years..

wooferdog · Post by **wooferdog** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:00 pm

my whole system is active,no passive xovers at all on a 4-way set up, so yes you can hook up to the amp w/o sp xovers. one thing to keep in mind tho is some type of tweeter protection cap to prevent blowing a tweet if a turn on/off pop happens or a active xover gets turned or fails and sends fullrange to the tweets.

audiogood · Post by **audiogood** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:13 pm

Thanks for all your input on this ..

Post by **ttocs** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:38 pm

audiogood wrote:Yes I use my phone ...... Next I was not asking for help on how I should hook my stuff up.... II WAS ASKING YOU TO HELP ME PROVE AN POINT ... WITCH IS AN ACTIVE SYSTEM CAN BE DONE AND WHEN IT IS DONE RIGHT NOTHING IS GOING TO BLOW UP . THE BOY,S AT JAM AUDIO IN BRUNSWICK MAINE SAY THAT IT CAN NOT BE DONE AT ALL AND THE SYSTEM WOULD BLOW UP.. The first time I did active sound system in my car I did it with an adcom 4 ch an carver 2ch and an realistic 3 way electronic x-over with a/d/s speakers.. I have Ben installing for 20+ years..

If you have done it already then I am not sure what the word of random people on the net would matter. I have only been at it for a little over 16 yrs but its easy to tell who is an installer by how they talk and what they know. Of course it is possible to do run a system active. It is more difficult how ever and I would also say that you will run the risk of blowing the speakers easier then with the cross-overs. If that is really what the shop said then I would hazard a guess that they were trying to sell you something or possibly didn't know better but that is hard to believe.

audiogood · Post by **audiogood** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:50 pm

They were trying to sell me an rockford fosgate 360

Post by **ttocs** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:50 am

yea like I said... What shops have you installed at?

audiogood · Post by **audiogood** » Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:52 am

The first shop was tweeter ect in the crystal mall watterford conn. Then I moved back to Maine and I worked for frank parmalo and son in agusta ... Then I opened my own shop but that went under do to an bad biz partner ... Now I just work freelance for my self .. there is not an big market for car audio up in Maine .. so no sence to have the big overhead of an shop that may sell two cd players an month and 6 sets of speakers a sub or two and an amp every now and then ... LOL

shawn k · Post by **shawn k** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:54 pm

audiogood wrote: THE BOY,S AT JAM AUDIO IN BRUNSWICK MAINE SAY THAT IT CAN NOT BE DONE AT ALL AND THE SYSTEM WOULD BLOW UP.

Simply put, these guys are clowns... don't waist your time trying to argue with them

audiogood · Post by **audiogood** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:16 pm

So so so true. The only person I would trust at that shop is Dave he dose know his shit. Sadly it was his day off. U have no idea how much stuff I have had to fix that they installed. They have this one guy that works there that insist electricity dose not flow to ground... No joke.

Post by **ttocs** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:49 pm

sure he is not trying to explain the difference in electron theory vs hole-theory to explain the movement of electrons?

audiogood · Post by **audiogood** » Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:58 pm

Oh I am sure .

Post by **ttocs** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:52 am

well because in those theories, one states that its the electrons that move from + to -(electron theory), where as electron-hole theory states that its not the movement of electrons that creates voltage as much as the holes that they create, which go from - to +. These theorys both work in the electronics that we use in theory and its only because they are so small and move so fast that we are not sure if its one or the other, or both....... Once can semi-correctly argue that it isn't the electrons going to ground creating the flow as it is the holes moving towards the pos that creates the voltage

shawn k · Post by **shawn k** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:52 am

Electron flow = NEG to POS

Current flow = POS to NEG

This was one of the first things taught in our electronics engineering course. This was the foundation for some of our first lessons, which was to determine voltage drops (across) and current flow (through) components in a circuit.

audiogood · Post by **audiogood** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:26 am

I gess he may have Ben talking about that but that is not how he explained it.. buy the time we got into that discussion I was so f@#$en pissed that I wanted to take the rockford fosgate amp and crack them in the head with it ... LOL

use the x-over or not use the x-overs this is da question

use the x-over or not use the x-overs this is da question

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Re: use the x-over or not use the x-overs this is da questio

Re: use the x-over or not use the x-overs this is da questio

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Re: use the x-over or not use the x-overs this is da questio

Re: use the x-over or not use the x-overs this is da questio

Re: use the x-over or not use the x-overs this is da questio