Phoenix Gold Phorum

motherfuckers...they are gonna pull it off

capitalism doesn't work if you dont let it run its course....grrr. these bailouts piss me off so very very much

Is this commercial for real???

If so, that was a cool one !!

lol, no sadly its not real...but its oh so true.

Damn, what the fuck is wrong with our government??!!

Hi US Government, I want to buy an iPhone. Can you please give me $1 billion? Thanks, Tom

I dunno, I think Ford has been doing some decent things recently, and their escape plan seems to be the most solid by far.

GM has really been leaking like a stuck pig for years, and I don't think the bailout is going to make a bit of difference to them in the long term.

And Chrysler just needs to die. End of story.

I need to know where I apply for said bailouts. My company is in the shitter because of the "mortgage crisis" and I think I should be in line for some of this bailout money. Why the hell not??!!

mr tibbs wrote:I need to know where I apply for said bailouts. My company is in the shitter because of the "mortgage crisis" and I think I should be in line for some of this bailout money. Why the hell not??!!

Ah, but you don't employ thousands of people!

This is a weird paradox... we can't let these profitless companies die because they employ too many people... but we can't keep propping up profitless companies indefinitely because it's not sustainable.

America is going to implode.

oh...i think we can let them die. people will adapt. not saying it will be easy. but the difficult decision is often the right one. the bailout is only prolonging the inevitable.

people still need cars. if the big 3 die, other companies that manufacture in America (bmw, Toyota come to mind) will have market share to take...and need employees to do it.

Bfowler wrote:oh...i think we can let them die. people will adapt. not saying it will be easy. but the difficult decision is often the right one. the bailout is only prolonging the inevitable.

people still need cars. if the big 3 die, other companies that manufacture in America (bmw, Toyota come to mind) will have market share to take...and need employees to do it.

yep, yep. What people are not considering is that the big 3 can still claim bankruptcy and still operate. But that will mean that they have to change their way of doing business and they simply do not want to do that. Why change the way of doing business when the govment is handing out money by the fist fulls??!!

exactly....Even Phoenix gold has gone bankrupt a couple times!

... ford:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NO0hCILrgNA

The sad realization is that the bailout will only delay then inevitable, a couple months down the road they will be in the same situation unless real restructuring of the business takes place (i.e. retirement plans handled by someone else, quit paying for rediculously overpriced union labor, huge bonuses for exec's, etc...). And what's worse is it is the tax payers dollars that are being used for the bailout, and if they go under then we're out the $$, not the government.

The legalization of marryjane is what will save us all........... OR keep us from taking to the streets except to get munchies and blunt wraps.....

Our auto pact is trying the same thing up here. The big 3 whining for public coin as Toyota opens a billion dollar plant just down the road. Sumtins fucktup. Actually Ford of Canada just needs a guarantee, they can get hrough with their own money. GM and Daimler are hurting.

I agree, let the market determine whether you're building a viable product.

HH

I concur. If this really is a free market, we should let the market run it's course and collapse any aging giants that cannot stand on their own.

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:I concur. If this really is a free market, we should let the market run it's course and collapse any aging giants that cannot stand on their own.

Sounds good until you realize that the government would in one way or another have to still support the millions of people that the failure of the "Big 3" would leave unemployed. It's not just the auto workers, think of the entire supply chain that would collapse or suffer a considerable decline in business.

I'm not a big fan of any of the auto "bailout" deals, but it is the least ugly of the options. I do think Ford or GM should absorb Chrysler, and get rid of everything but the Jeep Wrangler. Then have an upper management restructuring and purge those with the mentality that got them into this situation.

This country was built by Ford and GM medium and heavy duty trucks. None of the other manufacturers are even close to stepping up for the commercial trades.

The sad part is that this $15 Billion dollars will only sustain GM and Chrysler until March, that's March of 2009, about 3 friggen months!

What's going to happen then? Nothing, they will shut the doors and we will be worse off than we are now.

The "bailout" money should go right past all the manufacturing and supplier costs and go straight to the employees as a pay-off, and way of sustaining the soon to be unemployed employees for a couple years to get new jobs, and keep thier families fed.

Let them die, perhaps somebody can create something from the ashes that can compete.

I didn't buy stock in GM recently because I don't feel they're going to turn a profit. So why is the government buying billions of shares FOR ME?

The "bailout" money should go right past all the manufacturing and supplier costs and go straight to the employees as a pay-off, and way of sustaining the soon to be unemployed employees for a couple years to get new jobs, and keep thier families fed.

You mean the emplyee's that get 90% of their pay even when they're laid off? I don't know about you, but 90% of 20 some bucks an hour is quite a substantial income for someone who is not working. One of the main problems with GM are the costs for employee benefits and high wages. I agree with several others here and say let the free market run its course, someone will take over and maybe they can do a better job.

Jim Truett wrote:

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:I concur. If this really is a free market, we should let the market run it's course and collapse any aging giants that cannot stand on their own.

Sounds good until you realize that the government would in one way or another have to still support the millions of people that the failure of the "Big 3" would leave unemployed. It's not just the auto workers, think of the entire supply chain that would collapse or suffer a considerable decline in business.

I'm not a big fan of any of the auto "bailout" deals, but it is the least ugly of the options. I do think Ford or GM should absorb Chrysler, and get rid of everything but the Jeep Wrangler. Then have an upper management restructuring and purge those with the mentality that got them into this situation.

This country was built by Ford and GM medium and heavy duty trucks. None of the other manufacturers are even close to stepping up for the commercial trades.

I understand the massive economic and social shockwaves that would result from these companies coming down. I'm not trying to undermine that, however we've built a system where companies almost constantly have to GROW to stay alive and when you're so big and lumbering that you can't keep up that pace, things are going to implode.

I did include the words "If this really is a free market...", that was to leave it open. I don't believe there are any true free markets, but we always like to call the US market that anyways.

All I'm saying is the logical conclusion of a company not being able to make money in a free market is for that company to collapse. Whether that benefits people or not, even in the long-run, I don't assume to know.

amen to fuzzy!! but definately ... they wouldnt bail out any other small business in danger of going under.. only these cuz of jobs.. and as much as i feel for someone losing their job.. its the companies mismanagment that is at fault.. not the people or government.. sad sad time..

I see both sides of it...I don't think its a the governement's problem that the greedy bastards of the big three screwed up their companies to the point of collapse. I don't think they should get the bail out just because their biz is tons bigger than mine...however, a good friend of mines father worked on the chrystler assembly line for 30 years...he knows what acollapse would do to his retirement and pension...he knows what it would do to suppliers and other parts manufacturers etc etc...

while it blows to think about these guys getting out of dodge (no pun inteneded) scott free , can our economy really shoulder their collapse? and as far as Im concerned, if they only make it till march...at least they can't whine that the government did nothing for em, which is the popular trend these day...and the good news if they flop...cheap trucks

Im going to go with the minority vote on this one. Our economy will be overwhelmed with unemployed. I've heard that if GM alone goes under with thier tier 1 suppliers, unemployment will jump another 6% (double what it is now). Also, consider how much in taxes GM employees pay each year. As much as i like to say, "they are taking my tax money!" the fact is that the auto workforce has paid more to the government that I ever had.

Also, the whole 'US auto companies build crap cars' isnt the whole story that ruined them. Granted, they did have years that they fell behind the asian companies, however that statement is exaggerated greatly now. The benefits and retirement packages that they had to pay is one of the reasons for the substantial money usage. I suppose they could just be like Toyota, and literally work their engineers to death (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,379301,00.html), at least they wouldnt have to keep paying the health benefits!

I know allot has been said on this but
make a good car and don't pay your staff $40 a hour if they don't do a good job
let one or 2 of the 3 fail and give aid to one make sure some of there tool staff etc are moved to make a company that might stay alive
love how my tax dollar will go to bail them out...
shit Im a diabetic and I have to pay for my needles test strips etc so when It slow maybe the goverment should give me some cash... ya right
and drug people get them for free???? this world is so fucked!!!