M Series rack design feedback requested.........

ShockTherapy · Post by **ShockTherapy** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:59 am

The TI setup looks fantastic! It looks very modern. With a dark carpeting those leds would pop! The M-series amps are beautiful! Ive never seen those shrouds... wow! If it were my choice I would use the TI amps.... they just look fantastic in that rack!

Do they make a shroud for the M-25? because I'm doing a system currently on a friend's civic. It consists of an M25 running a set of RSD components and an M50 powering a single 12" RSD12. I'm using an audiocontrol 3xs for processing. The source is an older Alpine CDA-9815. I'm almost done and all I can say is wow! a simple system like this sounds better than many $$$$ systems I've heard. sorry for the threadjacking! had to get it off my chest.

USE THE TI AMPS PLEASE!!!

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:58 am

yes there is an m25 shroud as well.

Post by **stipud** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:28 am

ttocs wrote:not to sound snarky right back but yes.

When eq'ing from the trunk alone for example you decide you want to add 1.5 to 16 khz, you get to open your door, run back and open the trunk, find and adjust 16k, shut the trunk then your door and listen again and then repeat until you think you are satisfied. This of course can last for hours depending on if you are ever happy and I never am. If you could make the eq reachable from the back seat he could probably just lean his seat back, make a quick adj and then be done. I personaly can almost never keep myself from making small adjustments(I am a tweeker) so I need to have it easy to reach.

And this is why I use an RTA!

No more guessing, and I can put it in the trunk along with the EQ to adjust all the sliders and view the curve re-shaping on the fly

Post by **Eric D** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:50 am

stipud wrote:
ttocs wrote:not to sound snarky right back but yes.

When eq'ing from the trunk alone for example you decide you want to add 1.5 to 16 khz, you get to open your door, run back and open the trunk, find and adjust 16k, shut the trunk then your door and listen again and then repeat until you think you are satisfied. This of course can last for hours depending on if you are ever happy and I never am. If you could make the eq reachable from the back seat he could probably just lean his seat back, make a quick adj and then be done. I personaly can almost never keep myself from making small adjustments(I am a tweeker) so I need to have it easy to reach.
And this is why I use an RTA!

No more guessing, and I can put it in the trunk along with the EQ to adjust all the sliders and view the curve re-shaping on the fly

Same thing I do. Adjusting my EQ took about 30 minutes, most of which was getting the equipment out to the car.

However, you need a body in the seat to absorb sound, so I usually have someone sit there while I adjust, so when I get back in the car it sounds the same.

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:52 am

isn't the bass responce with the trunk open different from when it is closed?

HoseHead · Post by **HoseHead** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:58 am

Yes, trunk lid will make a huge difference. The size of your trunk and what's in it will as well - any change in the trunk's "free air" volume.

I have an RTA. SO perhaps designing a rear shelf for the BA XOver's that can be modified to accept a pair of Eq215x units ....

HH

HoseHead · Post by **HoseHead** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:21 am

Eric D wrote:Bruce,

You can go active it you like, but the 6.53 crossover is a testament to great audio engineering, and I really think it would be a shame to skip it.

A M100 has only 6 power supply MOSFETs, and if yours is factory stock (I assume it is), they are pretty primitive MOSFETs by today's standards. When it comes to comparing Class A/B amps, it pretty much all boils down to how stout the power supply is. With only 6 MOSFETs, I think you would fry the amp in time on 1.3 ohms. Even with the shroud, 2 ohms mono will be hard on it, unless you run it at or below clipping (which is easy to find, as the built in clip lights are accurate).

I know you have a lot of these amps, do you have 3 M100s? How about some M50s? I personally would put at least an M50 bridged into each side of a 6.53 set (two amps needed). A pair of M100s would be better still. Then use what you have left over on the subs.

What are your personal preferences for this setup? If I remember right you never considered yourself much of a "bass head", and I think you preferred hard rock, metal, etc? If so, I really think you will be pleased with the most power you can muster into those components, and a more conservative amount of power into the subs.

As far as using the tantrum stuff, you might have a better setup there. A T600.4 on the components bridged would be a great start, a pair of T500.2s would be even better.

Do you have the components installed in the vehicle? I think you should get the components in there, and two subs. Then setup a temporary space in the trunk to try different configurations of amps. When you have as many amps to choose from as you do, it is hard to settle on anything. A M100 on the subs, and a M44 bridged into the components may be everything you want it to be. If you find you need some more bass, work on that side of it. If you need more power on the components, then you can fiddle with that.

I personally always had an idea to use 3 M50s in an installation. I like the M50 as it has the most power per square inch of size (no crossover to take up space internally). I would put one on my left component, one on the right, and one on what ever sub setup I had.

Eric,
Thank you for sharing your very comprehensive views and experience.

My main listens are rock, jazz, a little country and some pop. SQL is definitely my target. I found, for my LF, running triple XMax12's from a 2125 through an EpiCenter and 406A, I had much head room and my controls generally stayed in the 40-65% range, including amp gain. No LPL. The result was nothing short of awesome.

I will start with:

M100 - bridged - Qty 2 BA 10.5 LF @ 4 ohms w/ LPL
M44 - bridged - Qty 2 BA 6.5 LF woofs @ 3 ohms - BA XOver LF input
M44 - bridged - Qty 2 BA MR 4 and BA tweets @ 3 ohms. - BA XOver HF input

This would be the "easiest" of my options to build. I will design it with the ability to swap out and/or add:

- Qty 2 Eq215x
- Bassube or EpiCenter
- Qty 2 bridged M50 vice M44 for BA 6.5 woofs
- Qty 3 BA 10'5 LF subs vice qty 2

I'm off to do an in-car mock up now ......

Again, thank you everyone who has made comments and suggestions. A team effort on this one for sure.

Bruce

Post by **Eric D** » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:20 am

ttocs wrote:isn't the bass responce with the trunk open different from when it is closed?

It sure is, unless in a case such as mine, I sealed off the trunk compleatly from the rest of the car. Running curves with the trunk open and closed made no changes to my response. The smaller cabin size made for more bass output as well.