1990 Subaru Loyale Wagon Install!

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed May 05, 2010 4:35 pm

i really really really dont recommend running that amp at 2ohms bridged. it probably wont die if you add a cap and cooling fans...

without those two extras....just dont recommend it at all

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Wed May 05, 2010 9:26 pm

ttocs wrote:what kind of rca's?

They are tsunami rca's. I bought them back in the day (about 7 years ago). They are the four in one going on and that is awesome. Much smaller wire to run! I like them alot.

Damo95 wrote:The idea of running all your wiring thru the loom tubing is a good one..

i like it... might adopt that in my car...

coming along nicely there!!

I am SOOOO glad I used the loom. Made WAY easier to run the wires and stuff through the car. I did the same thing on the other side when I had to run 6 new runs of 16awg for my paddle shifter project on the other side, and it worked so well I used it for the stereo stuff and it worked great again!

stipud wrote:
eulogious wrote:Front speakers run off the front channel on the amp under a 4 ohm load (75 watts rms x2) and then bridge the rear channel to run my sub on a 2 ohm load (300 watts RMS x1) and then run the rear speakers off the deck power for now. That will give me plenty of power up front to power the mids and the highs, and then the sub will have plenty of noise to be able to hear it as well. This is basically the same setup I had in the MR2 before I blew the amp, and then gutted it for it's wires.
My only concern here... bridging the sub to 2 ohms especially in a poorly ventilated area is probably not a good idea. Don't forget bridged 2 ohms is equivalent to 1 ohm stereo. Your amp is only rated for 2 ohm stereo and 4 ohm bridged. While it should be able to handle it for awhile, you may very well end up damaging the amp again. If this is the same setup you were running before, odds are that is what caused your very problem.

Also with 1 ohm stereo on the rear channels and 4 ohm stereo on the front you have a high load imbalance that will draw much more power to the rear of the amp. The power supply of the amplifier provides enough power for all four channels going full swing, but with a load imbalance like this you risk unloading all four channels worth of power supply through only your rear channels. End result: fried transistors.

That explains alot

Thanks for the info. I thought that I was running it correctly, but apparently not. I am not really that concerned about it tough. I ran it this way for over 4 years when it was in my MR2 and it was my DD and I listened to it loud and it got HOT, but it lasted 4 years before it blew

So if I only run it for a few months this way I should be ok.

Also keep in mind I am going to be installing fans as well, along with a temperature control circuit to kick the fans on when the amp heats up. So that will help out alot with the cooling. I think that I am going to use some 120mm lower RPM fans to keep the noise down, but move lots of air over the amp.

Thanks for explaining that to me! Now I no what NOT do to

Tomorrow I will run the power wire and see if I can hook it up!

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Wed May 05, 2010 9:28 pm

Bfowler wrote:i really really really dont recommend running that amp at 2ohms bridged. it probably wont die if you add a cap and cooling fans...

without those two extras....just dont recommend it at all

I am adding my cap as well, so ya

I am also thinking about adding a SLA battery, but I haven't decided on that yet...

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Wed May 05, 2010 10:51 pm

I should also add that the lid is coming off that compartment, and so is the carpet. So it will be exposed to open air for now. Then I will install a piece of plexy with the fans in the plexy.

So as it sits right now, this is WAYYYYY more cooling/airflow than it had in my MR2. In my MR2 it was mounted behind the seat, with the seat only an inch off the amp, and they were sheep skins seat covers on them as well

Hardly ANY airflow. This was dumb now that I look back

Gotta love hind sight. So anyways it will have lots more cooling than it has in years, so I think that it will be ok for a few months until I can save and get another amp. An well if it blows, I have 8 more transistors kicking around, I will just replace them

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Thu May 06, 2010 1:35 am

Well I just looked at the amps manual and saw the specs, and I think that the sub is actually 4 ohms, but I don't really know. I don't see why I would ignore the manual and wire up differently, but I very well could of. I its been so long I don't remember.

Either way I will just turn the gains on the amp down for the rear and play it safe. This is just a temporary solution until I get another amp, so it doesn't have to pound the hell out of me. Anything is better than what I have in there now. That and I really have a lot of faith in the amp since it ran this way for 4 years without any problems. And adding the fans is just going to cool it down even more, but I will keep an eye on the amp to see hot how it gets either way. Thanks again for setting me straight. It's good to know that I am not doing something right, even if I continue to do it. At least then I am not ignorant, I just do what I want!

Post by **stipud** » Thu May 06, 2010 6:23 am

Is the sub a dual 4 ohm maybe? Dual 4 can only be wired to 2 or 8 ohms. If it's a single voicecoil 4 ohm then the amp will have no problem with it.

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Thu May 06, 2010 6:27 am

It's DVC. I believe it's dual 2 ohm, but I can't remember. It's a solobaric 8" L7, I just don't know the ohmage on it. I could measure it, but I really don't care. I rocked this same setup for a few years, so I will just turn the gains down to "play" it on the safe side. If I hadn't used this same setup before I would be concerned, but a few years after the fact I find this out, it really doesn't bother me

I just don't want to buy new stuff right now, and this is what I have so it's got to work!

Going home soon to start running the power wire

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Fri May 07, 2010 3:16 am

I got the power cable run, what a pain in the arse to work with 0 gauge

but I got it done! My car is still torn apart, but it works! I tested it for about a 1/2 an hour to see how hot the amp would get. It really didn't get hot. I also didn't have any 30amp fuses on hand, so I put in some 10amp fuses in, and about 10 min into testing it I blew them, go figure. I then but in some 15amp fuses, and continued to listening and test it loud for about 20 - 25 min, and I didn't blow the fuses, so I can't be pulling all that many amps, which would lead me to believe that the amp and sub should be ok. I will have to test it longer with some 30amp fuses in, but if I didn't blow the 15amp fuses, I am not pulling TONS of power.

I will post pics once I get it my car drivable again. But lots more progress!

Post by **stipud** » Fri May 07, 2010 7:11 am

eulogious wrote:It's DVC. I believe it's dual 2 ohm, but I can't remember. It's a solobaric 8" L7, I just don't know the ohmage on it. I could measure it, but I really don't care. I rocked this same setup for a few years, so I will just turn the gains down to "play" it on the safe side. If I hadn't used this same setup before I would be concerned, but a few years after the fact I find this out, it really doesn't bother me I just don't want to buy new stuff right now, and this is what I have so it's got to work!

Going home soon to start running the power wire

Come on now, don't be lazy. If it's a dual 2 ohm the options are 1 or 4 ohm. You need to make sure it's not at 1 ohm at the very least. Hook up a multimeter to your terminals and measure DC resistance and let me know what you get.

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Fri May 07, 2010 7:14 am

It's 2ohm

I checked it yesterday after I tested it. Oh well. It won't be in there for too long. I am eyeing a 12 rsdc that I want to throw in. That 8" just ins't cutting it. I will just keep the gain turned down, and I will check to make sure it's not frying it's self either.

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Fri May 07, 2010 1:54 pm

Ok, got it all put back together

Pics will be coming soon. to tired to do it now.

The one issue that I really have is HORRIBLE alt whine

Totally sucks. So I am going to ground my rca's and see if that helps. What else should I look at? My ground is about a foot and a half, and grounded well. Any help with the alt whine would be appreciated!

Post by **stipud** » Fri May 07, 2010 2:09 pm

http://phoenixphorum.com/trouble-shooti ... vt178.html

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Fri May 07, 2010 11:03 pm

stipud wrote:http://phoenixphorum.com/trouble-shooti ... vt178.html

Thanks for that... I was super tired and I didn't even search

I will try some of these tonight/tomorrow. Thanks!

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Fri May 07, 2010 11:46 pm

Ok, so here are the pics! It's not completely done at all, but it works and I lost no room in my car! I had to consolidate, but everything that was in my car before I started is still in there. I also had to clean up my parents garage before they got home and get out, so I will have to pretty up the install later becuase I ran out of time, but that will be a slow process anyways since I am trying to do it nice for the first time

I ran the power through the fender so I didn't have to punch through the firewall and what not. This was way easier for sure...

This is the factory grommet for the engine wiring harness, so I have lots of extra room to poke through

Feeding it through and running it back

Where I installed my cap. Still don't have a ground for it

Connecting it to the battery

It's all wired up and ready to go!

Testing it...

My car will probably never be this clean again. That and it's so empty...

My LPL

All back together again.

Here's an idea of what it will look like with th top removed. Needs to be prettied up, but you get the idea.

I ran into some other issues was well. One pair of my RCA's is broke. The end has a bad connection on it

At least that's better than my rear inputs not working on the amp which was what I originally thought it was. So I will get some new end for RCA and see if that fixes it. I still have the alt whine, but I am going to look at that soon. I am going to be ordering up some more install pretty stuff soon as well. I am going to replace a bunch of my older stuff with new, but I just want to get something in there for now. I also need to adjust the amp as well. I haven't had time to fiddle with the sound, so that will be happening soon as well.

Other than that it sounds great (minus the alt whine)! I am happy I can finally hear the bass again. What a difference a sub makes for sure!

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Sat May 08, 2010 4:00 am

Wow, what a difference it makes to adjust the amp! It sounds so much better now

Now that all my gains are adjusted, the alt whine is that bad. I just had the gains turned up to high for the front. It's much better now. I am still going to try to get rid of it, but at least its tolerable now. I seriously forgot what music was like with bass. Soooooo much better

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Mon May 10, 2010 3:55 pm

I made some more progress

I got one of the pieces of wood put down, and the amp screwed to it. I also installed a relay and a fan as well

Here's some pics…

Here's the wood I found for $0.51

Here's it installed for now.

Here's a pic of the fan and the relay.

So I used butt connectors for now just to make sure that it all works, and when I button it all up with two amps and paint it and all that jazz I will solder all the connections. But for now, it's looking cleaner and better every day!

I might be getting some new toys here tonight… we shall see

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Mon May 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Have you considered hitting that area where the amp sits with Flat black spray paint? it would match the amp and prolly cost ya less than ten bucks. The contrast of the white against the amp and wires makes it untidy looking.

str3atwarrior · Post by **str3atwarrior** » Mon May 10, 2010 6:17 pm

Wow, i gotta say i like you deck! This install looks clean so far!

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Tue May 11, 2010 12:01 am

Stryker wrote:Have you considered hitting that area where the amp sits with Flat black spray paint? it would match the amp and prolly cost ya less than ten bucks. The contrast of the white against the amp and wires makes it untidy looking.

I will just quote myself

eulogious wrote:So I used butt connectors for now just to make sure that it all works, and when I button it all up with two amps and paint it and all that jazz I will solder all the connections. But for now, it's looking cleaner and better every day!

It's on the list for sure. I was waiting until I got another amp to finish up the little things...

str3atwarrior wrote:Wow, i gotta say i like you deck! This install looks clean so far!

I LOVE this deck. I have had it since 2003, and my wife has had the one that I bought her since 2004 and they both still work great! I really like kenwood decks alot

So the craigslists gods have shined down on me, and I picked up these beauties today for CHEAP!!! I couldn't resist pickin'em up!

I got a XS2500 that looks like new! It's used but it works!!

This is probably going to be my wifes eventually, but for now it's going to power my 8" solobaric!

Then I got a Tantrum 400.4 that works as well! This will be going into the wife's car for sure.

So I was able to run up to Seattle and pick both of these amps up tonight, and I still made it back in time to go to work. Gotta love craigslist! I got them from two different sellers, but got'em both for super cheap! I can't wait to install the XS2500 into my subie!

Is there anything that I should check on these bad boys? I know that the tantrum's caps should be fine, but what about the XS? Both of them were pulled out of working systems, so ya. I am going to test them before I install them, but I just want to know if there is anything that I should look for before installing it into a car. Thanks!

Post by **Bfowler** » Tue May 11, 2010 7:49 am

damn, nice xs2500! i love those things. fairly small, good 4ohm power. simple looks. and people pretty much sell em for a your childhood alliance. nice find. getting read to put one in my girlfriends Mazda wagon

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Tue May 11, 2010 7:58 am

Bfowler wrote:damn, nice xs2500! i love those things. fairly small, good 4ohm power. simple looks. and people pretty much sell em for a your childhood alliance. nice find. getting read to put one in my girlfriends Mazda wagon

I am super stoked about it actually. Once I saw it I was happy. It came out of a BWM 5 series and hardly has a scratch on it! It's really clean

I believe that the XS is similar to the tantrum, correct? Because I was/am looking for a 500.2 (broke now but that's what I want to complement my 600.4) but this looks like its the same amp, minus the variable xover. But I don't mind, since my tantrum has a variable xover that works on the line out, I can use the tantrum to adjust the frequency, and then the XS will just bump it. It works out great! Man, I really do dig Phoenix Gold stuff, very thought out and high quality. It's great!

Now off to finish my amp rack so I can get that XS bumping!

str3atwarrior · Post by **str3atwarrior** » Tue May 11, 2010 8:17 am

Wow thoses looks great too!

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Tue May 11, 2010 10:22 am

str3atwarrior wrote:Wow thoses looks great too!

Thanks!

So I got the rest of the amp rack made and fitted in, and I mounted the XS2500, but I didn't wire it in, I am too tired right now for that. That will come tonight/tomorrow

Pics!!

I didn't think I would see this pretty sight for a few months! Thanks craigslist!! I am by no means done with this, this is just the rough test fit before I button it all down, so keep that in mind. But it is starting to come together like I imagined it would, and I like it alot

So ya. It's coming together for sure! I got some more silver 4awg, and I still have some blue, so it will match. I also picked up 140 feet of 16awg speaker wire brand new for $30!! I am just coming across deals left and right yo! It's friggin' christmas in May for me!! Now it's bedtime...

Post by **Bfowler** » Tue May 11, 2010 10:34 am

yup, the tantrum is a evolution of the xs. very similer.

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Wed May 12, 2010 11:52 am

Ok, so I got it all wired in and working!!

The XS does work and bumps! Pics to come later, it's not pretty at all, but it's functional.

I do have a question about how the tantrum's xover works. Here's my config. I have only a front set of RCA's at the moment for the input, and then I have the XS connected to the Aux Output of the tantrum to allow me to adjust the lowpass frequency. On the tantrum, which freq adjustment do I use for the lowpass? From what I read and understand from the manual, is that the front adjustment controls the high pass for the front speakers, and the lowpass for the aux ouput when configured properly, which mine is. So does that mean that if I set the adjustment on the front to 112hz, that means that the lowpass will cut off anything above that, and the highpass will cut off anything below that, and then the lowpass signal goes to the aux output? That's what I think it means, I just want to make sure. Might be a dumb question, but I just like to know if I am doing things right or not. Then I take it the back are adjusted using their own adjustment? I just want to make sure I have this configured properly so I can tune it in correctly. Does that make sense? Thanks!