Stipud's SAAB 9-5

Post by **stipud** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:39 am

I finally finished installing those Tang Bands. I must say, I was very skeptical at first. I had problems with them making weird noises, hitting Xmax, distorting, etc. All of that went away after installing them properly.

The speakers themselves are bigger than the stock locations, so it took a bit of "coaxing" with a framing hammer to get the hole to be big enough for them. It was a very ghetto way to do it, but the only way I could think of, given the highly limited space between the speaker mount and my back window.

I bought a couple kits of cheapy Dynamat, and put it around the speaker holes, along the wires, and backside of the amplifier. Also put some extra dynamat chunks in the inside of the subwoofer "enclosures", and did my best to seal them off.

They also use different mounting screw locations. To drill the new ones, I had to get a special flexible drill piece, which lets you drill in the small space. Once pre-drilled, I had to tap the screws in by hand using a 1/4" ratchet driver (screwdriver didn't fit). I tried using the flexible drill piece, but it couldn't handle the torque, so it wrapped around my hand, put a small hole in a speaker, and slashed up the tint on the back window. Oops. Luckily it juuuust missed the antenna, so I can have it retinted later without any more extensive damage.

With everything properly dynamatted, the shelf put back together, and the seats up.. Holy fuck, these things are just about as loud as the RSD (louder on higher notes, a bit quieter down low). Keep in mind they are a 4 ohm load rather than the 2 ohm RSD. They don't sound quite as good, and are more stressed to play low notes, but all around an awesome compromise, especially considering they take up zero space. I installed a beefy DPDT switch on the speaker wire, so that if I remove the RSD, I can switch it over to the 6x9's easily.

I recommend these woofers if you have stock rear 6x9 locations, and are willing to cope with the install. It took me about two days to do a proper job (also including running Mastiff's Knuconceptz RCAs and making it all pretty), where I installed a typical subwoofer box in about 15 minutes (route the wire, connect it, done!)

I added a bunch of other pictures to my directory.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:23 pm

I have to say that I was pretty dang surprised when Tom gave me a listen to the final product. Not that I wasn't expecting them to sound good but they sound better than I thought they would.

I think part of my skepticism came from the two previous "tests" Tom did with them including sealed enclosures that couldn't hold airtight (the TBs were basically destroying the boxes) and the free air runs. They sound pretty horrible in the enclosures and only OK at best sitting in the 6x9 spots without actually being mounted yet.

But now that it's all said and done, I think it's pretty good. Especially the fact that Tom can now remove the RSd from the trunk for space or what not and still have some bass worth talking about.

It probably was more work than it should or could have been considering all the "little" slip ups until the final product but meh, isn't that always how it goes?

Anyways, nice speakers Tom.

Post by **Bfowler** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:30 pm

thats pretty baddass that you have a toggle swich for them!

Post by **Bfowler** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:47 pm

so uh....anything new with your install tom?

Post by **stipud** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:02 pm

Why yes Brain, yes there is!

I hired Mr. Fowler to make me a good box for my RSDC 12. He made me an excellent one for my RSD10 already, but I liked the comp 12 much better in my setup. Of course Brian couldn't just make me another awesome box like he did last time... he stepped it waaaay up!

Here's the result... a fully constructed box. He bondoed over the holes, sanded it down, and painted it Ti to match my gear! Holy moly!

And like the 10" box, its built to clear the hump at the back of my trunk, so it takes only a few inches of trunk space!

Post by **stipud** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:06 pm

And no package from Brian is complete without a couple of prank gifts as well... and the tradition is that I take an embarrassing picture of myself with them.

So here you go

Rose tinted glasses
XL JL shirt (I think Brian wants me to fill out a bit)
McDonalds fanny pack
Kids toys
And of course some good reading
There was also a half eaten box of valentines chocolates (which were disgusting, BTW), and several other books and nic-nacs that didn't make it into the pic.

Post by **Bfowler** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:56 am

tee hee hee, you look so american! god damn thats a sweet fanny pack. and a helpful book! be safe!

also you probably noticed the terminal plate was flushed in! (thats what took a long time!)

i covered the bondo in house wall joint filler for extra smoothness, a couple cans of black primer, then i used truck bed liner for the texture and some sweet silver enamel for the finish.

looks like the angle is a little closer on the back of the seats too!

glad you like it and thanks for stroking my ego.

Post by **mr tibbs** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:00 am

stipud wrote:There was also a half eaten box of valentines chocolates (which were disgusting, BTW)

Please tell me those chocolates were not "filled"

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:25 pm

Holy crap, that's the best Tom photo EVAH.

twisted · Post by **twisted** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:25 pm

ROLF

Post by **joerg** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:31 pm

You guy´s are too damn funny!

And for sure the most american thing is the black guy on THIS book!

Post by **stipud** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:28 am

So over the labor dabor I got a much needed kick in the ass to start on sound deadening. And let me just say the results are amazing so far! All of the peaks I used to have on the elite mids are GONE... the flattest EQ setting in my car is now with the EQ completely off! The only "downside" of this is that my front stage now sounds much louder than the sub, so it doesn't get as rowdy as it used to. Oh well, still perfect for my ears!

Only managed to do the front doors and trunk lid so far, but those were the two most important areas as far as I was concerned. This whole job probably took at least a good 20 hours so far. The hardest part, by far, was getting the vinyl on the doors. That stuff is seriously heavy and quite inflexible, so it needed a lot of heat gun action in order to form to the contours nicely.

Without further ado...

Inside of the doors deadened completely, with a square foot of vinyl mat placed behind the speaker to act as a deflex pad by absorbing the back wave.

A shot looking up into the door.

I siliconed some fiberglass mesh over the doors...

...and applied resin to them to make a more solid backing for the mat to adhere to.

From there it was another layer of sound deadening.

And then hours and hours of vinyl sculpting!

The finished product:

The back of the doors were sprayed down with cascade deadening. The foam chunks at the bottom needed to be cut down (since they inserted into the door), and then painted over with latex to keep it from flaking off.

Finally I did the trunk lid. This is the only place I had any rattles to speak of, and I killed most of them. I'll have to go back in to retighten my right taillight, but otherwise the rest is SOLID. Most areas here have THREE LAYERS of deadening on them, because the lid was definitely rattle prone.

Extra thanks to Brian, Harold, Errin, Tabor and Paul for helping out and giving me the support I needed to take this on! It wouldn't have happened without you guys!

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:35 am

are those drywall screws holding the amps up?!

Amazing the difference a shitload of damping does huh? the doors of my truck sound like wood doors when you shut them...

Post by **stipud** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:54 am

ttocs wrote:are those drywall screws holding the amps up?!

Amazing the difference a shitload of damping does huh? the doors of my truck sound like wood doors when you shut them...

Nope... self tapping sheet metal screws unfortunately

. I even drilled pilot holes for them. What a geek, eh?

The doors were already pretty solid, so I don't notice a big difference when closing them (although the locking mechanism and door handle are far more silent). However, sealing them and applying the mat over the surface did a ton of good to the sound of the midranges, which were my least favorite part of the install (but are now the best

). The trunk on the other hand sounds a bajillion times more solid when you shut it now. The bassline really tightened up from it, and it was already quite tight to begin with.

Now I have two large chunks of vinyl left and I am wondering what the best place to put it is... probably on the firewall and the rear fenders. Any opinions? The rear doors are so damn quiet I don't really care about them sound-wise, although that's another big place for road noise to come in, so I may put it there as well. I probably only have enough matting to do two of the three locations though.

Post by **Bfowler** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:43 pm

i know it wasnt much already...but what are your impressions of roadnoise on the freeway?

and how pronounced was the speaker sound difference WHILE driving?

Post by **stipud** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:48 pm

Bfowler wrote:i know it wasnt much already...but what are your impressions of roadnoise on the freeway?

and how pronounced was the speaker sound difference WHILE driving?

Like night and day. Similar perceptions as while parked. Just way cleaner and less fatiguing on the whole. I listened to it cranked the whole way home and it was just singing!

The main difference is around the notes I had to tame with the EQ before due to reflections. Those frequencies are now fully present without being harsh anymore.

Post by **smgreen20** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:59 pm

fuzzysnuggleduck wrote:Holy crap, that's the best Tom photo EVAH.

DL'ed it to my computer.

tonym · Post by **tonym** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:06 pm

nice work....I just did my Jeep a few weeks ago ...sounds alot better and lees noise movin

Post by **stipud** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:16 pm

I just took Errin's suggestion of swapping the phase on my left tweeter... so now my setup is:
LT - 180
LW - 0
RT - 0
RW - 180

Holy crap

It images way better, and the harsh tweeter resonances mostly disappeared. Between this and the deadening my stereo is sounding better than ever!

Post by **Bfowler** » Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:19 pm

so, go ahead and drive back down so's i can hear it.

Post by **ttocs** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:31 am

swapped the polarity of one tweeer? not sure I understand just one? I have heard of doing both but never just one.

The only part that bugs me about the sound damping is how bad it makes the trunk lid look. I had ao make a cover for it after doing mine as it was just too much to look at.

Post by **smgreen20** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:11 am

Due to path lengths, sometimes switching the phase of one speaker 180* out of phase is all that's needed.

In my '90 Beretta I had, I did the trunk lid and behind the tail lights and that plastic trim between the rear lights w/Dynamat. What I did to the trunk lid was sprayed primer over the mat and then sprayed it w/a Black textured paint. Didn't look at all bad. Hell of a lot better then that shinny look.

Post by **stipud** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:56 am

smgreen20 wrote:In my '90 Beretta I had, I did the trunk lid and behind the tail lights and that plastic trim between the rear lights w/Dynamat. What I did to the trunk lid was sprayed primer over the mat and then sprayed it w/a Black textured paint. Didn't look at all bad. Hell of a lot better then that shinny look.

My trunk lid has a panel that fits over the whole thing (well, except for two inches at the bottom on either side where I fucked up laying the mat too low, but couldn't physically remove the material anymore). It should be possible to cover the entire car without having any of it visible. The Saab interior is really well put together with lots of easy to use covers and access panels everywhere.

Regarding the phase, I just swap it all around until it sounds better. Sometimes running out of phase sounds phenomenally better, and sometimes it does not. So with my midranges, when I put them out of phase with each other, the imaging and midbass was much better. Same for the tweeters; the imaging and tone improved substantially, because there are less cancellations and peaks from the intersecting waves.

One rule of thumb I have heard is that when firing tweeters straight up off of the glass like I do, you should run them out of phase, since the windshield reflection will flip phase on them. So essentially by having the left tweeter 180 and the right tweeter at 0, and the left mid at 0, and right mid at 180, I am running my whole right side "out of phase" with the left side. That just seems to work best for me due to my cavernous car and the way the signals intersect.

Same thing goes for the sub too. With some subs it times and blends much better out of phase. The RSDC is the only one in my car that sounds best in phase.

Give it a shot in your cars! You may be surprised with the results.

Post by **ttocs** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:37 am

so I assume that might help the sound on the drivers side, but wouldn't it mess it up on the passenger side? I know we are not tuning our systems for the passengers necessarily but this is still the first I have ever heard of flipping just one speaker. IF you are worried about the phase being flipped on the tweeters bouncing off the glass, don't you meant they are out of phase from the mids?

Devils advocate, hope you don't mind as I am learning I think...

Post by **stipud** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:42 am

ttocs wrote:so I assume that might help the sound on the drivers side, but wouldn't it mess it up on the passenger side? I know we are not tuning our systems for the passengers necessarily but this is still the first I have ever heard of flipping just one speaker. IF you are worried about the phase being flipped on the tweeters bouncing off the glass, don't you meant they are out of phase from the mids?

Devils advocate, hope you don't mind as I am learning I think...

Wendy was sitting in the passenger seat testing along with me. The improvement in her seat was even better than in mine. That seat had a huge issue with an overly bright and loud tweeter (she even brings earplugs in her purse for when I listen too loud), with damn near no imaging. That has been vastly improved by fixing the phasing issue. She said she could never hear the left tweeter before, but now she can. I assume the waves were intersecting right in front of her, and this caused a ton of spikes and cancellations which were no longer present when run out of phase.

I still run my balance towards the right side of the car so you get a perfectly centered image in the driver's seat however, so it's still somewhat unbalanced in the passenger seat. But much better nonetheless!

On an unrelated note, I just went back and edited all my posts so that the images are shown in-line rather than having to click links for everything.