1990 Subaru Loyale Wagon Install!

Post by **Bfowler** » Wed May 12, 2010 12:38 pm

there should be a knob that controls that labled something like aux config

it uses a flathead "slot" that points to the config

it should read something like: bp/bp hp/bp hp/lp (and a few more

the top number is the amps crossover function, the bottom number is the aux out. so just turn the dial to hp/lp

Post by **stipud** » Wed May 12, 2010 1:19 pm

How are you using your Tantrum now? Just the front channels on a component set with the rear channels unused?

The aux signal comes from the REAR channels, not the front. However, the rear channels can steal the signal from the front, so what you have set up can work.

RCA -> Front input
Front Freq dial : set this wherever you want your front speakers crossed over

Input Select : F (this feeds the front RCAs into the rear channels)
Config : HP / LP (this means your rear channels are highpassed, and the aux out is lowpassed)
Rear Freq dial : set this wherever you want your rear speakers crossed over, and everything below this frequency will be sent out your aux-out

On the XS2500, leave the crossover turned off. It is no longer needed, unless you want to use a different crossover frequency. If you have an LPL, plug it into the Tantrum, and it will raise/lower the signal going to the XS2500.

With the rear channels you also have the option of running some midbass up front. You could set the config switch to BP/LP, which would send everything below the front crossover, and everything above the rear crossover to the speakers on the rear channel. Everything below the rear crossover would be sent to the subwoofer. What this means is you could run something like this:
Components 20kHz -> 200Hz
Midbass 200Hz -> 60Hz
Subwoofer 60Hz -> 20Hz

If there was an X10 multiplier you could use it to run your components actively, but alas, there isn't.

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Wed May 12, 2010 1:22 pm

Bfowler wrote:there should be a knob that controls that labled something like aux config

it uses a flathead "slot" that points to the config

it should read something like: bp/bp hp/bp hp/lp (and a few more

the top number is the amps crossover function, the bottom number is the aux out. so just turn the dial to hp/lp

Yup, I got it configured correctly like that. Let me clarify a little. Right now I have the lowpass working correctly, and my LPL that is connected to the tantrum is controling the sub that is powered by the XS, so I have it configured correctly.

My question is, on the tantrum, which freq adjustment do I use for the lowpass?

From what I read and understand from the manual, is that the front adjustment controls the high pass for the front speakers, and the lowpass for the aux ouput when configured properly, which mine is. So does that mean that if I set the adjustment on the front frequency control to 112hz, that means that the lowpass will cut off anything above 112hz, and the highpass will cut off anything below 112hz? That's what I think it means, I just want to make sure...

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Wed May 12, 2010 1:35 pm

stipud wrote:How are you using your Tantrum now? Just the front channels on a component set with the rear channels unused?

The aux signal comes from the REAR channels, not the front. However, the rear channels can steal the signal from the front, so what you have set up can work.

RCA -> Front input
Front Freq dial : set this wherever you want your front speakers crossed over

Input Select : F (this feeds the front RCAs into the rear channels)
Config : HP / LP (this means your rear channels are highpassed, and the aux out is lowpassed)
Rear Freq dial : set this wherever you want your rear speakers crossed over, and everything below this frequency will be sent out your aux-out

On the XS2500, leave the crossover turned off. It is no longer needed, unless you want to use a different crossover frequency. If you have an LPL, plug it into the Tantrum, and it will raise/lower the signal going to the XS2500.

With the rear channels you also have the option of running some midbass up front. You could set the config switch to BP/LP, which would send everything below the front crossover, and everything above the rear crossover to the speakers on the rear channel. Everything below the rear crossover would be sent to the subwoofer. What this means is you could run something like this:
Components 20kHz -> 200Hz
Midbass 200Hz -> 60Hz
Subwoofer 60Hz -> 20Hz

If there was an X10 multiplier you could use it to run your components actively, but alas, there isn't.

I was replying when I you replied…

My tantrum is powering all 4 speakers at 4ohms, so I am going for what you said…

I don't have any components yet, just coaxial all around, so I was just going with highpass to all speakers, lowpass to the sub. What you mention is exactly what I want though, I just need new speakers all around, including the sub

I just blew my wad on this amp and my 500.4 so they will have to wait, and I will have to make do with what I got, which really isn't THAT bad, all things considered

Right now it's configured like this:

Front Config: HP
Rear/Aux Config: HP/LP (rear/aux)

So I think you answered my question saying that the rear frequency adjust is what control the aux frequency.

BUT… This is not what the manual says, and this is were my confusion comes in. The manual doesn't talk about thre rear frequency adjust at all. Just the front, and it says that the front control is what adjust the highpass/lowpass for the front and the aux…

Now I am really confused…

Thanks for the help so far!!

Post by **stipud** » Wed May 12, 2010 1:58 pm

eulogious wrote:BUT… This is not what the manual says, and this is were my confusion comes in. The manual doesn't talk about thre rear frequency adjust at all. Just the front, and it says that the front control is what adjust the highpass/lowpass for the front and the aux…

That's probably a typo... PG usually has lots of errors in the manuals so this wouldn't surprise me. Turn the knob and see for yourself... you should hear a distinct difference on the subwoofer. I know for certain all other PG amps use the rear crossover selection on the aux out, so why would the Tantrum be any different?

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Wed May 12, 2010 2:26 pm

stipud wrote: That's probably a typo... PG usually has lots of errors in the manuals so this wouldn't surprise me. Turn the knob and see for yourself... you should hear a distinct difference on the subwoofer. I know for certain all other PG amps use the rear crossover selection on the aux out, so why would the Tantrum be any different?

Ok, sweet. That's what I figured. I haven't really had a change to play with adjusting it too much, so I will tonight in my works parking garage

I should be able to make it as loud as I want and not disturb anyone, I will fiddle around with it then.

I will say this, wow. I really like this XS. Once I figured out that I was adjusting the bass boost instead of the gains, it sounds much better. Man, it gets LOUD with 75 watts RMS going to the inside speakers! It's been so long since I sold by Saturn that had basically this same setup in it. Man, it's good to have good tunes again!

Thanks for the quick replies all. I really appreciate it!

Pics (Cell Phone)!!!

It needs to be cleaned up, but it all works. I will tidy it up here in the next little bit, but for now, I will enjoy my new amps!

Post by **ttocs** » Wed May 12, 2010 2:37 pm

zip/wire-ties are your friend my man

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Wed May 12, 2010 2:43 pm

ttocs wrote:zip/wire-ties are your friend my man

I work graveyard and have been up for far too long to work on this anymore

Trust me, all the wires will probably be under the board, so then you won't be able to see the zip tie jungle when I am done

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Thu May 13, 2010 11:23 am

Just to confirm, the rear frequency adjustment controls the frequency of the aux out when configured to do so. I spent some time adjusting it all to sound good, and tested that out to confirm. So the manual is wrong

Go figure. Oh well.

Man I really like this setup. I think it's perfect. Not too loud, but way loud enough when I want it to be. With some better speakers all around it will sound great!

Tomorrow I will upgrade my battery to engine ground with some smoke 0awg wire that came in the mail. I also got a bunch of connectors that should make working with 0awg a little easier. Hopefully that will get rid of my alt whine that I have

If not this is a needed upgrade anyways!

str3atwarrior · Post by **str3atwarrior** » Thu May 13, 2010 11:26 am

Tie-Rap with autostick bases are the best, but they don't stick well on wood or carpet... I usually screw them down in wood, makes such a clean job

But still you install looks pretty good to me!

Post by **Bfowler** » Thu May 13, 2010 11:30 am

you know...the xs2500 has its own crossover...and lpl port. you could bypass that headache all together!

also....are you going spade-less on the xs2500's power terminals!

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Thu May 13, 2010 11:32 am

Like I said, I am not done, I am just tired, so this will wait for a little bit. That and I am now out of money. I spent all my wad on amps and install goodies, so now I just have to wait until money comes in. I will tidy it up a bit more, run the wires under the board and try to hide it all, but I won't paint it and what not for a little bit. Thanks for the compliment though

After this I have to buy all the stuff to do this to my wife's kia. That should cheap

Dug myself into a hole though by telling her one of the amps I just picked up is her's

Oh well, at least she didn't get pissed at me buying an amp for myself this way. I figure, one for me, one for her and she can't get too pissed off at me

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Thu May 13, 2010 11:33 am

Bfowler wrote:you know...the xs2500 has its own crossover...and lpl port. you could bypass that headache all together!

also....are you going spade-less on the xs2500's power terminals!

Connectors just came in, geez!!

Oh, and the xover is working great, not really a headache at all

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Fri May 14, 2010 7:50 am

Ok, so I am now trying to isolate my amp noise, and I am really confused now. So the first thing I did was unplug the RCA's, one at a time from the amp. I unplugged the top one (left) and the noise went away. Unplugged the bottom one (right) and still no noise. So I then plugged the left RCA into the right input to see if the RCA was at fault. No noise. I then took the right RCA, which never had any noise on it, and plugged it into the amps left input, and I got noise. The noise is coming from the front left amp input

I then proceeded to take my HU out and move RCA around to see what that did, it was always the same result. The left amp input makes noise, no matter the RCA

What does this mean? I replaced the 4 input caps, could I have gotten a ground wrong, or my solder didn't make a good connection? I really don't want to open the amp up again, but if I must… HELP! Thanks

Post by **stipud** » Fri May 14, 2010 8:11 am

Hmmm maybe the RCA shield is broken on the left amp input? Not really sure man...

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Fri May 14, 2010 8:18 am

What do I look for? This is were my inexperience with amps kicks in

Post by **stipud** » Fri May 14, 2010 8:52 am

You would have to check conductivity between the RCA shield and the circuit board where it mounts to.

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Fri May 14, 2010 9:01 am

Damn, it's got to come out and apart *sigh* Oh well. Thanks for the starting point, I will start there and see what I find. Can I test this in the car to see? I tried ground the RCA end to something else, and nothing changed, but that might not be the same thing...

Could it be the ribbon cable by chance? Any other ideas??

Thanks for the quick replies!!

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Fri May 14, 2010 12:53 pm

Any help with the amp noise, refer to this thread I started for the noise:

http://phoenixphorum.com/post153707.html#153707

This way I am not talking between two threads and double posting

Back to installing… Once I fix the amp noise, I will start cleaning it all up!

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Sun May 16, 2010 10:28 pm

I fixed the amp noise!

I think it was a factory defect. One resistor wasn't sitting right on its pad

Oh well, no more noise!!

I was also able to grab a single memphis reference 6.5" to replace my 4" speaker in my drivers door. Granted the speakers don't match, but at least they are both 6.5" and coaxial, so it sounds alot better up front now

Now I just have to get some components to go up there, but that's aways away.

I also got some new toys that I will be installing as well here in a few weeks, but more on that later

Now I will at least upgrade my ground from the battery to the chasis, so that will be done. I think I will grab some paint and paint it up as well. That will make it look better too!

As a side note… I went up to bellingham on saturday (3 hour drive) and I listened to the music pretty loud, and my amps never shut off, so the fans must be doing something! I was worried that the XS might get super hot, but it didn't, so that made me feel better as well. That's all for the update now, more to come soon!

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Thu May 20, 2010 12:17 am

So I made some more progress! After a shipping mix up I got all my install pretty stuff in, and I got around to installing some of it

Pics!

Here's my new 300amp circuit breaker. I used heat shrink along with some dielectric grease to help prevent moisture from getting into any of my connections:

Here's my new ring terminal. Much better to work with

Here's my new ground cable that I will run from the battery to the trans(engine). I was going to use some of this ground for my cap, but I didn't read the auction and thought I was getting silver, not smoke. But it worked out because this amout of ground wire was the exact amount I needed, so it's ok. I just have to go get a foot of 0awg silver and that stuff ain't cheap

I think this is the only ground going from my battery to the chasis/engine in my car, I will have to verify that, but I don't think I have another one...

Here's my battery terminal with my new 0awg ground wire. It looks good, but it's cheap

The screw to tighten it to the battery post is now stripped, so I will have to remove the allen screw that's in there and replace it with something better. Annoying as hell. At least I don't plan on removing the battery anytime soon

Here's it all done...

I also decided to swap the locations of my amps. I am getting a ti400.2 to replace my xs2500, so the 400.2 needs more space on the top of it because it has a fan, so I just swapped the amps location. Here's what it looked like before:

And now:

The manual says the the 400.2 needs about an 1" clearance for proper ventilation, so it now should have it

That does it for now. This weekend I am picking up my 400.2 from fuzzyhonutz (thanks!) and I will be installing that in place of the xs. I am in the process of a trade for my xs, so I might be getting a new sub/box here alot sooner than I thought I would, but I still have to wait to see if that deal is going to go through or not. We shall see!

dwnrodeo · Post by **dwnrodeo** » Thu May 20, 2010 3:33 am

Looking good. My only concern is the 300A circuit breaker is pretty high for the amps you have or plan to have.

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Thu May 20, 2010 4:00 am

dwnrodeo wrote:Looking good. My only concern is the 300A circuit breaker is pretty high for the amps you have or plan to have.

I am running 0awg wire, so I can use a fuse/breaker up to 325amps to protect the wire within 18" of the battery, which mine is. In my distro/fuse block in the back, I have two 80amp fuses right now and both my current amplifiers have built in fuses so the distro/fuse block is only protecting the wire and 80amps is more than enough for 4awg wire. When I get my 400.2 installed, I am lowering the one fuse powering it to 60amps so that amp will be fused properly and within 18" of the amp because the 400.2 doesn't have builtin fuses

Remember that the fuse off the battery is only to protect the wire, not the actual amplifiers themselves. You need to deal with amplifiers separately if needed.

Thanks for the compliment

Slowly but surely I am getting it done!

Post by **ttocs** » Thu May 20, 2010 6:28 am

yea you are really fusing it too high to be honest. Those amps will never take more then 100-120 amps if you were ever lucky so if you put a 150 amp fuse in there. 300 amps will do ALOT of damage before it will blow if it should ever happen to ground out....

I would also try to figure out a way to get fresh air in there. There is not much space in there so once it heats up you can keep circulating hot air but it will not help.

eulogious · Post by **eulogious** » Thu May 20, 2010 6:46 am

ttocs wrote:yea you are really fusing it too high to be honest. Those amps will never take more then 100-120 amps if you were ever lucky so if you put a 150 amp fuse in there. 300 amps will do ALOT of damage before it will blow if it should ever happen to ground out....

I would also try to figure out a way to get fresh air in there. There is not much space in there so once it heats up you can keep circulating hot air but it will not help.

Do I really need to quote myself again? *sigh* Not to be an ass but I have answered this already in this thread no less...

eulogious wrote:I should also add that the lid is coming off that compartment, and so is the carpet. So it will be exposed to open air for now. Then I will install a piece of plexy with the fans in the plexy.

So as it sits right now, this is WAYYYYY more cooling/airflow than it had in my MR2. In my MR2 it was mounted behind the seat, with the seat only an inch off the amp, and they were sheep skins seat covers on them as well Hardly ANY airflow. This was dumb now that I look back Gotta love hind sight. So anyways it will have lots more cooling than it has in years, so I think that it will be ok for a few months until I can save and get another amp. An well if it blows, I have 8 more transistors kicking around, I will just replace them

And about the fuses:

eulogious wrote:I am running 0awg wire, so I can use a fuse/breaker up to 325amps to protect the wire within 18" of the battery, which mine is. In my distro/fuse block in the back, I have two 80amp fuses right now and both my current amplifiers have built in fuses so the distro/fuse block is only protecting the wire and 80amps is more than enough for 4awg wire. When I get my 400.2 installed, I am lowering the one fuse powering it to 60amps so that amp will be fused properly and within 18" of the amp because the 400.2 doesn't have builtin fuses

Remember that the fuse off the battery is only to protect the wire, not the actual amplifiers themselves. You need to deal with amplifiers separately if needed.

Thanks for the compliment Slowly but surely I am getting it done!

My amps are FUSED!!!!!!!!!! TWICE!!!!!!!! My distro block has fuses in them!!!!! 80AMP!!!!!!!!!! There's nothing to be destroyed between the 300amp breaker and my distro. Just the wire and a cap, and that won't even be destroyed because 0awg wire can handle 325amps!! Is this really a difficult concept?

If you really need an expalnation on proper fusing and what fuses do here's one:

http://www.bcae1.com/fuses.htm

Please read this and understand this before correcting me on my fuses. After you read that and I am still doing something wrong, please correct me then...

I don't understand why you guys think this is an issue, it's NOT!! That breaker is only there to protect the wire and the wire can handle 325amps, geez...

Sorry, I hate repeating myself, especially when I just stated the facts to back up my previous statements...