ZX500 or Ti600.2

knightrider358 · Post by **knightrider358** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:26 am

Ok guys I was wondering which one would be for better SQ. I have a 600.2 but I took the cover off it and it doesnt look like it has a darlington board like the ZX line and before. So Im assuming the ZX line has better SQ. Now was the Ti line built with the intentions of save costs for PG or because they are more power output, etc,etc. Now I know this will be a biased feed but I wanted to know facts why and not preference u know chevy vs. ford thing. Anyways any input woulf be greatly appreciated thanx again. Oh yeah this amp either of the two will be used for my RSdC12 is that makes any difference and probally ran @ a 2ohm load on either one. Id rather run it @ 8ohms but I dont have the funds to buy a 600w amp at a 8ohm load.

Audiophiliac · Post by **Audiophiliac** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:57 am

ZX has the gold plated board. Ti does not.

Post by **stipud** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:27 am

The ZX and Ti have the same overall circuit design, but the Ti uses SMD components instead of through-hole, and has more reliable pots. They also scaled back the headroom on Ti amps to stop people from toasting them like the ZX amps.

So a ZX is only better because it makes a bit more power than Ti, and is easier to replace things other than caps and transistors on. Ti's are more reliable. Their sound is identical, and I doubt you would be able to hear the difference in power.

Post by **kg1961** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:30 am

I have used both and I 100% agree with tom

knightrider358 · Post by **knightrider358** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:38 am

thanx guys I appreciate ur knowledge

Post by **Jacampb2** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:30 pm

They are both triple darlington output stage. They are about 99% identical. Cosmetics, and power supply changes are about the only difference. I believe the Zx500 and Ti600.2 both share the same rail voltage (I'm going from memory here, but would be more than happy to verify if you like), so overall the same output potential. I believe the reason the Zx500 gets sighted as "having more headroom" is due to some information found in the old PG web faq. The faq said that the Zx's power supply would not limit rail voltage unless is saw a sustained high current draw for IIRC 100mS, where the 600.2 article says 50mS is where the set point is. This makes the 600.2 theoretically more reliable, but at the loss of some head room. This only really applies at very high output and very low impedance. For a SQ setup, I doubt you will ever even be able to tell the difference.

Now, all that said, I think the ZX line is the better looking amp. The case is a bit more plain, but I would rather have a smooth case than all the Ti dimples and rolled edges. The biggest thing that does it for me is the gold plated boards in the Zx. Evidently there were a few Ti amps with gold boards, they exist at least in the published information for the ZxTi amps (the year before the Ti line). However, I have never seen one except for in the pictures. I would give my left nut for a GP ti amp...

Later,
Jason

Audiophiliac · Post by **Audiophiliac** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:38 pm

Wellll...you could make a GP Ti amp.....ZX board, Ti case....but it would not be the same.

mrblob · Post by **mrblob** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:05 pm

I think the ZX/ZXti runs full power with only 13.8V while the TI's require 14.4V to run at full power.... Most of the car's I've sen always have lower performing alternators that only reach 14.1V MAX

Go with ZX -- but if you rather have the titanium finish, the ZXti line was the best because it's a ZX with the titanium finish.

wash with gasoline · Post by **wash with gasoline** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:16 am

i have a zx600ti, ive had it forever. the case has the typical rust and its been back to phoenix gold for repair once. ...this may sound dumb, but do i have to take it apart to see if the board is gold on the bottom or would i see it threw the windows? mine does not look gold threw the windows.

Audiophiliac · Post by **Audiophiliac** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:16 am

The ZXTi amps did not have the gold plated circuit board. However it is entirely possible, and has been mentioned previously, that a few early models may have been built with "leftover" parts from the ZX models. What would be the best IMHO would be a couple of AL Ti amps with ZX boards.

Post by **Jacampb2** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:57 am

Check out this tech sheet for pics of the GP ZxTi's:

ZxTi_tech Clicky

I am fairly certain the ZX boards will not fit a ZxTi or Ti case, I will check today, I have some downstairs. If you look carefully at the boards in the pics in that PDF, they dont look like ZX boards, I think it is more than likely that they were simply the prototype models, and the GP, as well as the green torroids got axed for cost cutting...

Also, we have been through the ZxTi, Ti comparison a hundred times. The amps are the same, it was only a name change. There were also some minor changes in board layout and silk screen, but no design changes.

Later,
Jason

Post by **stipud** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:17 am

Jacampb2 wrote:I believe the Zx500 and Ti600.2 both share the same rail voltage (I'm going from memory here, but would be more than happy to verify if you like)

Eric tested the rail voltage on his ZX amps to be much higher than the Ti's. Thus the thought was that the rails would sag a bit when loaded, but for dynamic peaks it would have more headroom.

I would be curious to see if you got the same results as well...

mrblob · Post by **mrblob** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:28 am

If the ZXti is the same as the Ti's then go with the ZX.

Post by **Jacampb2** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:14 pm

stipud wrote:
Jacampb2 wrote:I believe the Zx500 and Ti600.2 both share the same rail voltage (I'm going from memory here, but would be more than happy to verify if you like)
Eric tested the rail voltage on his ZX amps to be much higher than the Ti's. Thus the thought was that the rails would sag a bit when loaded, but for dynamic peaks it would have more headroom.

I would be curious to see if you got the same results as well...

Here you go, a ZX500, ZX600ti, and Ti600.2 for your viewing pleasure:

Zx500

Zx600Ti

Ti600.2

Not much difference, but the interesting thing is that the Ti amps are both a bit hotter than the Zx. Who knows, maybe I got a pokey Zx and some hot Ti's...

Supply voltage was 14.1Vdc. All amps were tested from the same supply.

Later,
Jason

Post by **stipud** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:23 am

Interesting! Very interesting! So we might have been wrong all along...

Well, this makes me happy because I have a large supply of Ti amps

Thanks Jason

Post by **Jacampb2** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:04 pm

stipud wrote:Interesting! Very interesting! So we might have been wrong all along...

Well, this makes me happy because I have a large supply of Ti amps

Thanks Jason

The rail voltage will vary somewhat based on several variables. I believe this is why you see some amps that "birthed" higher than others. I think the "nominal" voltage for all of these models was +/- 50Vdc. I seem to recall the post you mentioned by Eric. IIRC, he had a Zx500 that was pushing somewhere near +/-60Vdc on the primary rails. I think it was 58Vdc. It makes me wonder what the actual transformer ratio is, and if it is simply a feedback loop change required to get them to come up a bit higher. 8 more volts is a fair amount more power...

Later,
Jason

ZX500 or Ti600.2

ZX500 or Ti600.2

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