Product Suggestions

[audiophyle_247]

I think this is awesome news!

1 thing I would love to see again would be all of the accessories designed to complement the amp lineups. I remember how many people bought the Ti amps just because they could get all the dist blocks, Tidd5/10, etc that matched. A lineup of equipment stylized after the RSDs would really sell well, and possibly restart a trend since no one seems to offer such products these days.

Re-invention of past product lineups seems to be the norm these days too, so add a lineup above the RSD & reintroduce an old time favorite with a slight modern update to cosmetics. As long as the product could live up to its reputation there should be considerate success, and not just among PG die-hards.

Also agree the PG logo is great, but the full name should be reintegrated.

[Glenntsc]

Couple comments:

- Cosmetic and specific parts for older amps are becoming more and more scare. Its pretty slim pickings at this point keep in mind some of these amps are 10 to 15 years old now.

- LPL will not change.

- I agree RSD stuff is very nice. Speakers sound great.

Great input keep it coming.

Gee, thanks Morgan about the speakers. I worked hard on those.

Glenn P.

[Bfowler]

whoa, thanks for coming by the forum glenn!

[cyberpunky]

PG to me was all about overkill and quality. The ZPA/ZX/cyclone/XMAX era was (again to me) the pinnacle of the PG products. While everyone else was using ICs PG was going with Triple Darlington arrays, big Caps and bus bars you could run a train down, and then putting a window into amp so all this goodness could be seen.

At the end of the day PG was overkill for a simple reason and that reason was uncompromised sound. If the new PG does high end stuff and sticks to the old PG design style of quality and overengineering, then the future should be bright. As soon as the focus is just cosmetic, the gear just looses its soul. PG was built on gear that had a soul, and although cosmetically pleasing, the design was always function over form

I agree with going back to the old PG logo as it wasn't broken, and although everyone shortens everything these days, that only make sense when ppl know what it is in the first place. If the current car audio buyers don't know what Phoenix Gold was, selling it as PG means they are unlikely to find out. Phoenix Gold has a history it should exploit, and using just the initials just sells that history short IMO.

Anyway if you avoid gimmicks and build honest products that over deliver, then PG will no doubt rise again from the proverbial ashes.

peace
Cyberpunky

[jbondox]

you should call Larry and get him on payroll also... he told me you went to Aamp

Well I am an Audison/Hertz guy now, too much time wasted over the years with PG, I can say at least the best thing I got from PG was my wife

Anyways being with Aamp, today's market, today's business thinking, today's consumer, today's retailers, today's installers... would it really matter what we say?

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that every businessman would say overseas production, and you can't argue with it, although i would talk to companies of various goods still making due with USA production, be it a widget to a broom handle...

Marketing is another abortion in this industry, the industry fails to market to the people with money, they just concentrate on the kiddies, BS shops, and BS installs

I could go on all day but by the end of the day the company would be still broke (unfixable) plus the budget would depleted.

you would need a round table meeting of professionals, and not like the BS round table where Harley Davidson comes in, but from the lowliest peon to the upper end... and diversify... with a clue and clueless... the later will be easier to find

Also aligning the company with shops that will promote the product solely. shops that have 10 brands are going to do what for you? sell their buy ins off really cheap!

distribution across america so it is a next day thing or 2 the most would be great for dealers

higher standards for shops... if it is a shit hole then your reputation is a shit hole brand

installation techs need to know WTF they are doing... they need to be authorities on acoustics and installation... and held to a higher standard

unilateral pricing and quarterly agreements so as if the company was whoring shit out they can be discharged in less than a year, and yes, congress now allows it but the industry whores will never step up to the plate

1 online retailer with no discounts or free shipping or free amp kits or any other bull shit...

a dealer locator

dealer spot light

weekly news

inside look to the company

go back to the old logos

come out and say why a part is used and why it is better than the competition

new design of amps that have optical or HDMI inputs

scratch the speaker line unless you are going to align with a company that does it for a living besides ho chi min, such as morel or hertz.

give everyone here something for nothing because of their loyality especially stupid.

Make this the unofficial official forum of PG, if you start your own, and cock block this forum, I'd ensure.... never mind. of course he would need to be paid handsomely for his years of dedication... and I can stir some shiet also where everyone here would band wagon

OH yeah the first time I hear DB drag yada yada yada ... I will throw a hissy fit because all they want is something for nothing and throw a shit fit if they didn't win and talk trash about the gear

purely custom factory vehicles that travel with new car autoshow addressing consumers, and have different dealers there different nights. Hell i turned my company around to being a multi million company within 2 years and have did it solely with 70% from the autoshow and know what to promote

As for the old school stuff, in house repair and refurbishing needs to be done, if you can't go back to the roots then you are going to have a huge identity problem.

Please don't turn it into another Exile company

there I wasted more time

[Irongoats]

Wow, was that being helpful or just ranting? hahaha Nice.

[dwnrodeo]

I too enjoyed the cosmetics of the new Exile amplifiers, something subtle and classy! Now, here are my thoughts.

1. PG's High-End Line Amp should include the following: 24db/oct crossovers (preferrably the Xenon detented types that allowed you to know the frequency you selected), LPL, selectable configuration settings that allowed highpass, lowpass, bypass, and bandpass much like the Ti's or the Xenon's, a x10 frequency multiplier would be welcomed to run active, and a RMD port. Also possibly a large monoblock amp for the bassheads around here. I for one enjoy the cosmetics of the new RSD line, but did not like the irregular shape of the amps, which is why I chose to purchase a Roadster. The Roadster (IN MY OPINION) is probably my favorite cosmetic LE amplifier yet! I know this might seem blasphemous to MS/ZX/Outlaw-Bandit people.

2. PG's economy amp line should include the following: 18db/oct or higher crossovers that are at least continuously variable, LPL port, and configuration settings such as highpass, lowpass, and bypass. Cosmetically, do something subtle yet refined. I know this is all opinion, but I have always been a fan of the XS cosmetics. Nothing fancy, just a understated design in a small chassis that can put up with some abuse.

For what will sell, I think you've hit the nail on the head with the RSD component speakers, and the RSDC subwoofers. Relatively inexpensive, great sounding, reliable speakers that are gathering a large following even outside the phorum members, because of word of mouth praise about how great they are. A high-end speaker line such as the Ti elite series would be a welcome addition for high-end speakers. Also, a 8" or 9" midbass driver (either a 8" RSDC woofer made for small enclosures or a dedicated midbass driver) would be a huge welcome! I know many people around here looking for Ti 9's, XS 8's, Xmax 8's, etc... for dedicated midbass woofers, myself included.

The new accessories are great, (dist blocks, battery clamps, etc...) keep those. A TDD5/DD10 would be awesome to have, as well as a basscube, and linedriver. Most head units now have decent EQ'ing so a standalone EQ might only be for the select few audiophiles.

I think if you build reliable, over-built amplifiers with decent cosmetics and use Phoenix Gold's previous reputation of building excellent amplifiers and accessories, you can revive the company and turn it into something great. Don't skimp on small details like when they tried to use 8 gauge power connectors on the new RSD line (thanks Errin!), it's the small details that make the product great. I know you will still have people who won't buy it because it's not "Made in USA" or "it doesn't look like my MS" but for the most part if it is a good product, it will sell. Hell, keep selling them endplates and connectors and plexi's then, that way they can keep their old school amps that everyone loves.

Most importantly, try to reduce the amount of products going to ebay, like jbondox said, one online retailer and market the new stuff!

[Mackenzie]

It would be nice to see 15s go back into production. 15s sell more these days then people think. Just about every company I can think of offers 15inch models. I would like to see them back like when the ti's were in production. Also would like to see another big 12, and 15 inch sub. 1000+ watt range to replace the elite. Keep the looks lassy, no flash.

Also why not bring a 2kw amp to the mix? Even the companies that arent spl based generally have large amps ( zapco for instance). New highend speakers. Would like to see pg hook up with morel again, or some other great company.

[Rold Gold]

An RSdC15 would be nice.

[stipud]

I thought one of PG's biggest problems, especially during the Xenon series, was the high grey market availability, in combination with refusing warranties on anything bought through that venue.

IMO the warranty should be priced in with the amp before it even goes to the distributor. That way you can offer warranties, regardless of where they are purchased. Even better if you make the warranty transferrable between customers within the warranty period with no bullshit... stand behind your product and your customers will stand behind you.

You may even look into removing the "must be dealer installed" caveat. Make the amp completely idiot-proof, then allow people to install it themselves (you can include a set of install requirements, i.e. MUST have 4 gauge power and ground or something, and force them to prove the work was done properly). Especially in the audiophile niche, not many people want to have a dealer install their gear. Personally I have seen the damage their typical mongoloid staff can do to cars, so I would not take my car to one even if they offered me a free install.

Xenon was undoubtedly the most controversial amp line... so much potential, yet so much tarnish. The first batch of cold solder issues was easily remedied by your FANTASTIC repair team in Portland. However, because of all the amps sold on eBay, a ton of online shoppers ended up with broken NEW amps that would not be fixed. So the people buying online are obviously the people who will be the most vocal on forums as well. Word of mouth is very dangerous in this case, and it was a HUGE argument against you moving your production overseas. If the warranty was there, or if you even did a recall on those amps, i'm sure people would have been a lot happier.

I think an improved warranty is actually something you should boast as a selling point, since that's one area all the other brands seem to suck at as well.

The RSD line you have right now is a fantastic "meat and potatoes" middle line for the typical user (that would be most of us here as well). We here on the Phorum absolutely LOVE the RSD components and subs. KUDOS TO GLENN! They prove that you don't have to be overly expensive to sound great. The word of mouth from here has reached other forums (especially DIYMA), and they seem to be the de-facto suggestion for a budget SQ system.

My only major beef with the RSD line (besides lack of LPL on the 4 channels and the 18dB XOs) is the amplifier cosmetics. Your amps have to look good in all cars... from 60's muscle to imports. I thought the Ti line did a perfect job of that. A refined, muscular look, yet very simple and installer friendly. The odd shape of the RSD amps makes integrating multiples very difficult to do seamlessly. Having all the connections on different sides makes it tough to install. And I just haven't seen a car that they seem to "fit" with. An amp should look like it belongs with the car.

In addition to the meat and potatoes RSD lineup, there also needs to be an exclusive tier as well. A total outlier that draws customers AND PRESS to the brand. It can be extremely limited production, and you don't even have to build it yourself (the outsourced PG Elite components were a prime example of this).

My best stab at what would make a successful PREMIUM brand, is to look at premium brands in other fields as well. Apple computers, BMW/Audi/Merc cars, etc. What makes them appealing is their simple, timeless industrial design, good quality throughout the whole range (no cutting corners on the bottom of the line gear!), and their outliers (e.g. Mac Pro, BMW M, Mercedes AMG, Audi R, etc).

RSD and Ryval are a solid offering in the low and middle lineups... you just need a top tier amp that will get people talking again. Especially with the new ownership, and PG's current DOA status, you really need to kickstart the brand. Set it off with a bang. The Phoenix rises again from the ashes, and brings a kick-ass new amp line.

On an unrelated note, stop laying off the customer service representatives! It was awesome having Tad representing you back on the original PG soundoff forum. Errin did a great job of picking up where he left off. But it seems like everyone who has sat in the CSR seat since Tad left has been laid off, or quit very quickly. Considering these are the guys we talk to every day, it's nice to talk to the same person consistently, especially when we are trying to make big parts orders, etc. The audiophile niche you are trying to target seems to be mostly online, so get some good representation here and on other forums.

My final suggestion is... consider giving Brian Fowler back his distributor purchasing priveleges. PG took them away after he publicly complained about the grey market leak on the forum. But Brian is the one who sold to all of the core members on the forum. Cutting him off cut off the rest of us as well. It is hard for me to organize a demo ring if I am forced to buy your gear out of my pocket from a dealership for MSRP! When I did a demo ring for SSA, they offered me their sub below cost, and even built me a custom sub as a thank you!

Better yet, offer a sample of your new amp lines for a demo ring on the forum. Guys like Eric do lovely detailed looks into the engineering of the amplifier, which tells SO much more about them than what your marketing teams do. Tad used to give us all this info straight from your engineers whenever a new line was being conceptualized. The more information we have about WHY your amps are superior, the more we can tell other people.

[MW3]

Guys this is all really good input. I can say we are thinking along the same lines.

Things can't change overnight, but some things do need to be changed (and some don't). We can't make everyone happy and the market has changed since the 90s, but I agree we need to focus on the core themes you have all brought up here.

Jimbo. Long time no talk. Hertz/Audison is a great line I agree. Don't blame PG for you getting married, you needed to settle down!

Morgan

[jbondox]

Settle down? she gave me 3 more kids on top of the 50 I have running around through out this world... j/k it is 48

I wish you guys luck!

BTW shed some insight on what some of the in house planning is going on... like hey guys what would you think along the lines of...

[ttocs]

you guys have not seen james worked up. That was not a rant, its called constructive critisism. If he was pissed, you guys would have no doubt about it......

[Bfowler]

hehe....i have seen james worked up! yeah, that was constructive! love him or hate him...you will at least always know where he stands!

[jbondox]

I did hold back... I figured I would only waste a little bit of time on it, unlike the old PG forum... long drawn out responses and poof... gone... all the time invested... gone!

[Bfowler]

so i just realized something... james shields...relation of ex PG alum Julie shields?

[jbondox]

no idea what you are talking about

[Bfowler]

lol, then that probably means no!

she was PG's accounting/purchasing for like 12 years

[dedlyjedly]

I thought one of PG's biggest problems, especially during the Xenon series, was the high grey market availability, in combination with refusing warranties on anything bought through that venue.

IMO the warranty should be priced in with the amp before it even goes to the distributor. That way you can offer warranties, regardless of where they are purchased. Even better if you make the warranty transferrable between customers within the warranty period with no bullshit... stand behind your product and your customers will stand behind you.

Obviously the biggest problem was the lack of control over the distribution channels. The warranty issue certainly compounded the frustration to many end users, but it really wouldn't have been an issue if products weren't being dumped all over the internet. Strictly enforcing the warranty policy was the only thing the manufacturer could do to help protect the authorized retailers once they "let the cat out of the bag" with their distribution headaches.

I think you'll have to build a superior product and start small with specialized independent retailers to really re-build the reputation of Phoenix Gold. This would have to include limiting the number of accounts relative to AAMP's current dealer base. Make it extremely special so that customers and in turn dealers are actively seeking for your products. As important as the brick and mortar dealers will be to the re-building of the brand, the relationships AAMP chooses to develop or reaffirm with their online retailers will be some of the most important decisions the company has to make. Many difficult decisions will have to be made in order to make this re-birth successful, and it will take time to do correctly. Hopefully AAMP has the patience and resources to overlook the sizable initial investments and can keep their eye on the prize as far down the road as it may be.

It's great to see you on board for this endeavor Morgan. That definitely gives us a great first impression that the big wigs are at least trying to go down the right path for success. But I'm extremely curious as to what happened with Exile. Care to share?

[Mackenzie]

I thought one of PG's biggest problems, especially during the Xenon series, was the high grey market availability, in combination with refusing warranties on anything bought through that venue.

IMO the warranty should be priced in with the amp before it even goes to the distributor. That way you can offer warranties, regardless of where they are purchased. Even better if you make the warranty transferrable between customers within the warranty period with no bullshit... stand behind your product and your customers will stand behind you.

Obviously the biggest problem was the lack of control over the distribution channels. The warranty issue certainly compounded the frustration to many end users, but it really wouldn't have been an issue if products weren't being dumped all over the internet. Strictly enforcing the warranty policy was the only thing the manufacturer could do to help protect the authorized retailers once they "let the cat out of the bag" with their distribution headaches.

I think you'll have to build a superior product and start small with specialized independent retailers to really re-build the reputation of Phoenix Gold. This would have to include limiting the number of accounts relative to AAMP's current dealer base. Make it extremely special so that customers and in turn dealers are actively seeking for your products. As important as the brick and mortar dealers will be to the re-building of the brand, the relationships AAMP chooses to develop or reaffirm with their online retailers will be some of the most important decisions the company has to make. Many difficult decisions will have to be made in order to make this re-birth successful, and it will take time to do correctly. Hopefully AAMP has the patience and resources to overlook the sizable initial investments and can keep their eye on the prize as far down the road as it may be.

It's great to see you on board for this endeavor Morgan. That definitely gives us a great first impression that the big wigs are at least trying to go down the right path for success. But I'm extremely curious as to what happened with Exile. Care to share?

I am curious about this aswell... I still havent sent my x5 in to get fixed

[Bfowler]

just got off the horn with Brian Kelsey at exile. they are still rockin, and just moved to a new bigger warehouse

[Rold Gold]

Here's an idea for a LE/re-birth amp...... BOFAS!!!!!!! "The Bride of Frank"......... http://phoenixphorum.com/bride-of-frank ... ight=bride ..... Great idea IMO.

What a way to fire up interest in PG again and get people talking. I know there are a few guys that are rolling eyes at this idea but who amoung us wouldn't want 1......a raise of hands.......I don't think so.... Make them super limited......500 units or less. Coffin, bag, straw, diodes, xover........the whole nine yards.

Maybe not next year or even 2011.......but 2012....year of the Bride....

[kg1961]

I say yes please and if they did the first limited run of 300 just like frank and son.....

[joerg]

I really hope they are going to catch up with that idea Fuzzy! I would be in for buying #62 next seccond

[Pedi]

I say yes please and if they did the first limited run of 300 just like frank and son.....

Are both FAS and SOFAS limited run of 300?

As far as I can see, the FAS is more rare (much more!!) on the market than the SOFAS...