Car Audio Opinions

Post by **bdubs767** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:46 pm

Well I have not been around for a while on a consistant basis, as I've some what lost interest in car audio mostly because my car is getting old and I didnt want expensive gear in a car that has a good chance of breaking down. Also I've been far to busy with work since graduating from school.

Over the past 2 years I've sold off all of my high end gear and when I say high end I've pretty much owned it all...P9, DRZ, Alpine DVD to h701, PG ms, pg xenon, sinfoni, audison, scan speak, aura, JL, seas, ID ect ect

Now I'm running a simple alpine CDA-9887 to a massive audio 5 channel amp w/ PG RSd6.5 mids and peerless 2.5" full range speakers w/ a jl13w6v2.

Over the past year of listening I've formed a new opinion about car audio....

You put a system in your car to listen to music while driving not sitting in your driveway, thus if your not competing in SQ comps, which are silly any way, lets through out the whole idea of a car with zero floor noise.

When driving I truly feel other than unclipped power, amps do not matter. The floor noise IMO will pretty much cancel out any difference in amp sonic. Also "sq headunits" I feel the same about other than their tunning capabilities.

Second your sub. I also feel that a sub truly isnt that important in terms of of brand from brand. I feel that tunning can truly make pretty much any sub work damn well.

Third, Install and tunning is EVERYTHING. Speakers can make a decent difference but majority of the time if you install and tune your system properly in a car traveling down the road you can get decent speakers to sound damn good. EXAMPLE look at that guy from JBL that used some JBL coax to make what many people consider to be one of the best sounding car every.

Fourth car audio is all about compromise. You cant have everything in a car like you can in a house. You have to pick and choose your battles depending on your preference. For instance like tweets in the kicks or up high in the pillars. In the kicks they can be placed closer to the mids causing less phasing issues, easier to cross, less refelctions but you'll compromise your stage height and start to have that rainbow effect. In the pillars you'll have a great stage height but your image will be hurt in some form and you'll create some phase issues.

Wires other than picking up floor noise and being big enough aka power wire dont matter one bit at all.

For gear I feel DSP is the most important item you can buy, hence when the JBL ms-8 hits the market I think it will be the most valuable gear anyone can buy hands. Put your money towards DSP!!!!!!
That is my ramble please share your thoughts.

fyi this system I have now is the best I've ever had but I'll explain why in a later thread

Audiophiliac · Post by **Audiophiliac** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:03 pm

I just feel that when my system gets to the point where I can get into the music and not think about the pieces of equipment reproducing it, I am done. And it really does not take thousands of dollars of gear to do it. At least for me.

I do not tweak to tweak, or build intricate custom fiberglass pods to aim my mids and tweets with laser precision. I do not need 1000W+ of power for my sub(s). I do not care about tech flex and heatshrink on my power wires and labeling the ground wires.

I just throw a set of speakers and a sub on an amp or 2, play with the EQ and xover until it sounds sweet, then I just drive around listening to my favorite tunes.

I have had this kind of system a few times in my last VW. The M44, Ti500.4AL, SOFAS, Exile X800.4, Xtant 1.1i all pretty much sounded the same to me....awesome. The Xenon 6.5s were the weak point....so I upgraded to ID CXS62 and only moved on from them because of the problems with crud getting in the VC gap and making noises. Even though the Xtec65 sounded better to me, I did not feel the need to upgrade the CXS at all. They were in stock locations coaxially mounted. I was running only 2 ED 6.5" subs in a simple sealed box and it sounded fine for me.

I am going a bit over the top in this next one just because it might be the last time I have a chance to for a long while.

But I am still not going as nuts as what some people think is necessary. I do not think it is stupid for people to spend ridiculous time and $$ on car audio, but it is not for me.

Just put on some old school Metallica and crank it! It sounds "bad" no matter what! lol

deathcloud · Post by **deathcloud** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:31 pm

You get what you pay for. Right now I am saving for my audi r8 and putting all hertz audio in it. hertz MLK2 and 2 millie subs. Jbondox will be doing all the work. Of course this is when I win the lottery.

I feel you on this. I feel like I am always changing things to try to get the best sound. Hopefully one day I will be happy and not have to change anything ever again.

scottn29 · Post by **scottn29** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:34 pm

I gave up on it all to, I had prob 5 grand in gear for the car and have sold it all to go back to a simple KISS install, some passive 6.5" componets in the front with a 15" IDQ sub in the trunk all powered by a PG Xenon 200.4 with an alipine cd player, entry level, with a PG Teq4, it will be so nice to just enjoy the music again and not nit pick over little BS

Post by **Rold Gold** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:52 pm

For me, car audio hasn't lost it's appeal since my first real system sooooooo many years ago. I look at it the same as the engine. Sure "stock" is OK but why not make upgrades......It's doesn't have to be balls-out crazy but something is better than nothing. That's the fun part of owning a car isn't it?????. While I realize that not everybody was born with a wrench in hand as I was, I just can't see how people can buy cars and just drive them. I have to be able to tinker with it or I won't own it. Wrenching is more relaxing to me than almost anything in my world. For those couple hours I'm under the hood or in the trunk, nothing else is important to me except what I'm doing....... Why do all the work under the hood and just throw some garbage in the trunk? Why not put the effort into the trunk as you did the engine bay? IMO, yer car is a reflection of yourself......even if it's a POS. You only get out of it what ya put into it.......

As far as "just any old amp and speakers can sound good"...... I'd agree to a point. I've always heard "buy good shit the first time and don't worry about it". I'll also agree that you don't have to spend tons of $$$ to have a nice system. All said and done, I'll have about $800 into my stereo and I'll be happy as hell with it.

Post by **smgreen20** » Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:48 pm

I'm w/Hobagnuttz

On the point that it's relaxing to me. Building and installing, and the final payoff of listening. I'm hardcore "music" through and through. It has to sound good to me. I've got (out of pocket/paid for) $3100 "invested" in my stereo and though I'm for the most part done, I still want to upgrade the front end speakers to some scan speaks but lack the funds and a job. I'm fortunate enough right now to have a LOT of left over stuff from other installs to tinker around and try different things.

Car audio started out for me back in '92 as a SPL thing. Today that's over rated for me. There's more to music then just Boom Boom. I've always been brought up to save for the "good stuff" and have done so for the most part. I think for some it's just a change in age that makes us change in this hobby. I don't see myself slowing down anytime soon either. I could care less if my car is falling apart or not, IT'S GOING TO HAVE AN AFTER MARKET STEREO IN IT!. We're getting a free car ('93 Honda Accord) from my wifes friend and this thing has 248K miles on it and is starting to rust, hood latch doesn't hold the hood all the way down and the door handles need worked on, but I've got a stereo waiting for it. Eclipse 8443 HU, Memphis Street edge speakers in the 4 corners, a LANZAR Opti150 for the sub which will be either the PG XS104 or the PG XMAX10.

Even in this car it will have to sound good. I wont go all out in this car as would/will my truck. 1) Probably the biggest reason, it will more then likely be the wifes car and she doesn't care if it has all of that high tech gear in it as long as it sounds good to her and she's easy to please on the sound side of things. 2) I can't afford anything else right now and 3) The car really isn't worth spending more money on it for a stereo. If I had not a stereo to put in it then yes I would be getting something, but I keep most of what I use in one vehicle to use in another.

Bottom line is, the car stereo is my escape from the worlds issues it brings me. I can put in PANTERA and play "WAR NERVE" at full tilt if I'm in a pissed off mood and by songs end, I'm no longer pissed. It's my escape from reality in a sense.

jbondox · Post by **jbondox** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:13 am

deathcloud wrote:You get what you pay for. Right now I am saving for my audi r8 and putting all hertz audio in it. hertz MLK2 and 2 millie subs. Jbondox will be doing all the work. Of course this is when I win the lottery.

I feel you on this. I feel like I am always changing things to try to get the best sound. Hopefully one day I will be happy and not have to change anything ever again.

jbondox · Post by **jbondox** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:20 am

bdubs,

I understand what you are saying, and agree with you. which is why i have turned away from the glamorous highlighted installs to the hide the shit away and make it work. which honestly is 10x more of a pain in the ass to complete and more time consuming. when I build a system now, I want the least amount of shit in the audio chain and the only thing for the customer to adjust is the volume regardless of the genre played. it has to have a 3 year warranty, be completely safe to the occupants, and by no means boomerang back to me for issues. It needs to be done and never come back.

the other thing is that there is a ton of BS companies out there that shouldn't be in business, but everyone has a dream and I respect that, but it results in counter productivity for the whole f'd up mobile electronics industry.

as for the MS8... what has been 3 years now? just get the bit1 and call it a day.

Post by **stipud** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:03 am

I have always tried to follow the engineering principle KISS - keep it simple stipud...

Once you start aiming for perfection, nothing will be good enough for you. You could have hand made $5000 10-way components individually run by monoblock audiophile 5tuple darlington amps, but you will never be happy with it.

When I started building my first PG install, I had way too much money living by myself in Sweden, and I was just getting crap sent to my parents house en masse. When I came home I had a elite 9-5-1 set for the front, 6-1 for the rear, a Ti12D and a Ti900.7 and Ti1200.1. For a base model 1985 Corolla Sedan. Lo and behold the 9's would have never fit in the doors, because the window rollers got in the way. I would never be able to lower the windows, in a car with no A/C! So I gradually started selling off gear, until I finally installed my 900.7 with Elite 5's up front, and a Xenon 12 in the back. Most of my trunk was gone, since I built a huge box (2.0cuft with 1" MDF for optimal SQ), amp rack, etc. and flushed it all off. The suspension sagged in the back from all the weight. Never enjoyed that install because of the huge midbass gap. After that I learned my lesson.

Just put in the best components and sub you can afford. Get an amp that suits their load. I think it is silly that anyone would need more than a 4-channel amp most of the time. I love PG's Ti/ZX amps because they have headroom and lots of versatility in their crossovers.

So with my current install, I put in my Elite 6-1's, added a sub, and powered it all off a Ti500.4. That install has not changed once in the last three years, except for swapping out the subwoofer, which is the only thing that can be removed in my install. It's put in a prefab box, so that if I need to utilize the full area of my trunk, I can pull it out. So now I have an enjoyable stereo, which admittedly does not sound the best (but more than adequate for my ears), and most importantly is highly functional and didn't bankrupt me.

dwnrodeo · Post by **dwnrodeo** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:34 am

I'll agree that for daily driving usage, thousands of dollars of equipment is unnecessary. I drive with my windows down most of the time. You know what that does to SQ in a system that was tuned with the windows up, car parked, and engine off? Turns it to shit. But, I hate A/C so I drive with my windows down anyways. Even rolling down the windows when it's parked will give a few db drop off of the tweeters because of reflections. I'm happy with my install and components though because number one, everything looks stock, and number three or whatever number I'm on, the music sounds good TO ME. Not what an RTA tells me, but what I think sounds good. Then again, I've never heard a properly tuned install with thousands of dollars worth of equipment in it...

Post by **Eric D** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:40 am

I think an amplifier is critical to the "usability" of a stereo, not just how good it sounds. All amps cheap or high end fall into one of two types of distortion, odd or even order. One of these affects humans more than the other, and I cannot remember which is which.

Back when I lived in Detroit I drove about 3 hours each way to come home on weekends. At 60-65 MPH, my car had plenty of road noise. I played the stereo at very high volume to enjoy it. When I arrived at my destination, I would always have a headache. This was using Rockford amplifiers. When I switched over to using PG amps for the first time in my life, the headache went away. I tried a few different models of RF amps and PG amps, and always had the same result. Now, I realize I am just one person, but clearly something about the RF amps did not agree with me, and something about the PG amps did.

I read some info on this back when I was dealing with it, and the info kept pointing back to differences between tube amps and transistor amps. Even though tube amps have more distortion, they are easier on the ear than transistor amps.

My experience has caused me to stick with PG amps in my personal stereos, and I will never go back to Rockford. I still recommend Rockford to many people, as they are very reliable, but their type of distortion is not something I can handle. I have also tried other amps more recently and have had great luck with Soundstream and Exile. Both of these must have similar distortion to PG amps, and they do not bother me long term.

I think if someone wants a system in a daily driver, they need to find amplifiers which sound good to them at high volume over the entire length they travel. Chances are it does not take an expensive amp to do this, just one which is compatible with their ears.

Post by **bdubs767** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:44 am

jbondox wrote:
as for the MS8... what has been 3 years now? just get the bit1 and call it a day.

I know....MS8 will be magic if it can do what they say...but I've been thinking about a Bitone lately. how much are they going to tap into your pocket for now a days?