Revisiting RSD Comp Sealing

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:55 pm

As it turns out, with spacers, I will have quite a bit of room behind my front door panels for speakers. A different person that I posted below mounted a pair of Pioneer TS-C720PRS midranges that have a 2 5/8" mounting depth with the same spacers I have and left them open air to the inside of his door from what I can tell. Because of this, I think the car can definitely handle some sealed RSd comps.

Since I have an inch in spacers, I feel like it would be a good base/frame to seal these bad boys. I would like to make a shell soon since I may not install the speakers for a while yet but I have never really used fiberglass on my own. I would also like it to be something I can just screw right into the door once the panel is off.

How would I form the bowl that the speakers will seal in? How much space do I need to leave under the woofer magnet to allow this woofer to breath?

I know I have asked these types of questions before but I never had as easy a basis to work off of in my other applications so thank you in advance.

If I seal the midranges, do you think that I could get away with dynamatting around the speakers mounting surface and inside of the panel versus dynamatting the entire sheet metal and panel?

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:19 pm

tupperware dude........ I used them on some 6.5" diamond audio hex speakers. I used some additional sound damping(second skin damplifier pro) to help to make them a little more sturdy and to keep them from flexing. The only side you really have to be concerned with is the flat back part. The curved bowl shape will keep that part from flexing. Between the enclosure and the second skin on the door I think it made a big difference. MAke sure to use some type of foam to seal the speaker to the baffle/enclosure. Most smaller speakers(6.5 and below) do not come with the foam backing to do this but it is important.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2395420/8

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:55 pm

ttocs wrote:tupperware dude........ I used them on some 6.5" diamond audio hex speakers. I used some additional sound damping(second skin damplifier pro) to help to make them a little more sturdy and to keep them from flexing. The only side you really have to be concerned with is the flat back part. The curved bowl shape will keep that part from flexing. Between the enclosure and the second skin on the door I think it made a big difference. MAke sure to use some type of foam to seal the speaker to the baffle/enclosure. Most smaller speakers(6.5 and below) do not come with the foam backing to do this but it is important.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2395420/8

Nice man! And not too difficult. So you kept the tupperware as it was and fashioned it to that wood baffle which kind of reminds me of the spacers I have. How did you seal the tupperware to the baffle?

How much room did you leave behind your magnet on those comps?

A while back when I had my vw, I spoke with some of the phorumers about using pvc to house the woofers but at that point, I couldn't find pvc piping large enough...tupperware might have worked : ).

Do they sound nice and tight with the tupperware and second skin?

I would love to glass a little pod but I know it would be more challenging than it seems to do that..unless I found some kind of cardboard bowl shaped item to use as the base. Using pipe cleaners and fiberglass mat could work but I think it would be more messy.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:42 pm

You probably don't want to do what I did, but mine aren't just sealed, they are dead heavy, too.

http://phoenixphorum.com/post7150.html#7150

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:30 pm

you could make a glass enclosure the same shape by just sandwiching some resin soaked fleece inbetween two of the same sized bolws.

I had probably around 2" behind the magnets, they are vented for cooling. I helped to seal the bowl to the baffle with silicon, and then used staples to hold the two together. Another thin bead of silicon on both sides helped to make it clean. I finally sealed the two together with one strip of second skin that went completely around the rim of the baffle and went down into the bowl.

I am not going to say these are the worlds best enclosures, but I have heard these speakers with no enclosure and liked the difference they made. I have bought enclosures/baffles for customers before and they were cheaper then the tupperware and would do little more then keep moisture out. With the tupperware the only part that really flexes is the bottom/flat part. With a piece of damplifier pro on both sides it was vertually eliminated. If you don't like them, you can always 86 them and just go the usual route.......

dedlyjedly · Post by **dedlyjedly** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:58 pm

To be honest I've never been a huge fan of sealed enclosures for midrange drivers. I would be primarily concerned that your spacers provide a mounting baffle that is as rigid and dead as possible.

If you decide to fiberglass some pods you could skip the fleece step and just glass some chop mat directly to your Tupperware mold. The resin won't bond to the plastic and you'll be able to cleanly separate the two after it cures.

dwnrodeo · Post by **dwnrodeo** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:08 am

http://phoenixphorum.com/and-so-it-begi ... t5991.html

Check out my install here. I used a 6" PVC pipe plug to make my sealed enclosures. I didn't have much room to work with because of the window, so my enclosures were undersized and due to that fact, the midbass suffered greatly. I ended up drilling holes in the back of the PVC later on using a hole saw and the results were fantastic. If you're going to do a sealed enclosure, make sure you have enough room to provide a big enough enclosure. I would recommend deadening your door and sealing it off then run your midbass drivers open air. I think you'll be happy with the results as opposed to a sealed enclosure.

Post by **stipud** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:06 am

In my experience the RSD components work better unsealed in a deadened doorpanel than they do in a small sealed box. If you do seal it, you should make it as large as humanly possible, or try to work in some sort of aperiodic membrane or something.

Post by **bdubs767** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:49 am

stipud wrote:In my experience the RSD components work better unsealed in a deadened doorpanel than they do in a small sealed box. If you do seal it, you should make it as large as humanly possible, or try to work in some sort of aperiodic membrane or something.

Tom if memory serves me right the qts on the rsd driver is far to high for an AP enclosure. I could b wrong though.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:17 pm

Well first off, thanks for the great turnout! I was afraid you guys would be sick of talking about this. Awesome.

I thought sealed was the way to go but if that's not the case, perhaps I will hold off on the enclosures...because I can't make them very large and I definitely want the best sound possible out of them.

I have room but not room enough to make a larger sealed comp enclosure, it would be a relatively small one.

Thanks for all the info.

So...for deadening the door, do you guys recommend just doing the entire sheet metal panel as well as the entire inside of the plastic panel that covers the sheet metal?

Stipud, have you done anything to your doors besides deaden them? Dwnrodeo mentioned sealing the door but that doesn't sound too simple. I would be willing to deaden the entire doors for sure if it will work very well with the RSd comps.

And Fuzzy, yours look great but I am trying to avoid anything out in the open, I want to keep everything stealth and factory looking. Kicks are always awesome though.

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:00 pm

Phoenixcolt wrote:And Fuzzy, yours look great but I am trying to avoid anything out in the open, I want to keep everything stealth and factory looking. Kicks are always awesome though.

Yeah. I wasn't suggesting building kicks, but just taking a look at how I built a sealed and dead enclosure. You could do something similar with your mounting rings but in your situation, I'm not sure I would recommend it. Other suggestions are probably better for you (such as not sealing it).

Post by **ttocs** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:22 pm

I show the deadoning that I put in the door on that same page. I would recomend using as much as possible. I put a few strips on the inside of the door skin as well as a complete later on the door panel. I went one step further on my truck and put a closed cell foam on the inside as well.

I have had my hands on most sound deadoner and recomend second skin damplifier pro if money is not matter.... The regular damplifier is still better then extreme and cheaper as well.

Post by **stipud** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:35 pm

Phoenixcolt wrote:So...for deadening the door, do you guys recommend just doing the entire sheet metal panel as well as the entire inside of the plastic panel that covers the sheet metal?

Stipud, have you done anything to your doors besides deaden them? Dwnrodeo mentioned sealing the door but that doesn't sound too simple. I would be willing to deaden the entire doors for sure if it will work very well with the RSd comps.

The more the merrier. The most important is a layer covering the entire top face of the door panel. It helps if you screw some panels over the holes in the door, so that you can adhere the deadening mat to them. Sound deadening inside of the door will help make them sound better as well. Basically the idea is to turn your entire door into an enclosure, or at least minimize the amount of sound that can come from the back of the door out the front.

Phoenixcolt · Post by **Phoenixcolt** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:32 pm

stipud wrote: The more the merrier. The most important is a layer covering the entire top face of the door panel.

By top face, do you mean like the picture of this other guy's car that I showed in the beginning of the thread? The sheet metal panel that the plastic interior door card covers? I posted another pic of this other guy's car below.

stipud wrote:It helps if you screw some panels over the holes in the door, so that you can adhere the deadening mat to them.

What would you use for this? Something very rigid like thin wood? Thicker cardboard?

stipud wrote:Sound deadening inside of the door will help make them sound better as well.

If I can get in there through whatever holes the door has, I will do my best to get the inside of the door panel as well.

Sorry to get so specific with all this, I am very particular and when I had my RSds in my vw, they didn't sound that great so I thought you guys would be best to get sound deadening material application tips from. The vw speaker openings were way too tight so I didn't mess with them a lot, I just mounted the comps the best I could...but was never happy. I want to be as happy with my system as it develops as I am with the motor in my Rex

.

I am liking the Damplifier mat from what ttocs tells me. I have always used dynamt extreme in the past but it is definitely thin.

Post by **ttocs** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:00 pm

the only problem I have with that pic is that it looks like it was not pressed on very firmly. When it is rolled on with a roller it will look exactly like the door panel. If you mention that when ordering the second skin sometimes they will include it.

Post by **stipud** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:15 am

Phoenixcolt wrote:By top face, do you mean like the picture of this other guy's car that I showed in the beginning of the thread? The sheet metal panel that the plastic interior door card covers? I posted another pic of this other guy's car below.

Yup.

Phoenixcolt wrote:What would you use for this? Something very rigid like thin wood? Thicker cardboard?

Yes, or aluminum sheet metal, or anything else that will stand up to the elements.