MS275 - revisions

marko · Post by **marko** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:10 am

KUB3 wrote:If I saw a mint white one I'd be so tempted to buy it. Just for the sheer nostalgia and cool factor, even if it wasn't to be used. I bet they are better than any modern ten bazillion watt digital amp! I wonder how a 2250 compares to this for pure sub control?

the colossus was reviewed as a "subwoofer par excellence" amplifier, all about power and control and lots of it too! how it would compare to a 2250 i wouldn't like to say.. i only use about 3-500 watts at the most for my needs and at level both would be awsome!

@ eric, i totally agree but i have also never heard of an ms amp failing with fets as a result of bad design and the wiring niggles is mostly an issue when stripping/rebuilding the things, those rca's on the little fly leads a re PITA

also, fans are a great idea until they fail

then what? toasty amp!

KUB3 · Post by **KUB3** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:20 am

Re: ZX
I mean the cheap case work and overall feel. A fan costs pennies to buy in off the shelf, but a custom made solid metal heat sink costs a lot to manufacture in both time, materials and tooling.

I do remember hearing the intrusive fan noise on sections of music which were meant to be silent. And that was with just one fan going. Maybe the thin sheet casing should have been stuck with dynamat as a cheap remedy.

Re: MS
Sure there are some minor details which can be easily tweeked for improvement. But they don't affect the longevity. I guess the inductor is incorporated into the cable as there is no room left on the circuit board when crammed inside the half sized case. I've not managed to pull any wires off terminals in dissembling many MS amps. But to upgrade a few centimeters of cable will only take five minutes if you really must.

To be honest there are issues with all the PG amps if your critical enough. It's not like the ZX enjoys a reputation for being bullet proof. Plus loads of newer amps are filled with cheaply made SMT from China. Meaning one minor fault and the whole thing goes in the bin! I'll stick to dead simple

ps

Someone is selling a mint 0.3 and 0.5 on TA for absolute peanuts if they're your thing

Post by **Eric D** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:44 am

There is nothing all that special about the MS heatsink. It is just an aluminum extrusion. Zapco, PPI, Soundstream, and nearly every other flea market amp sold on eBay use a custom aluminum extrusion.

The ZX amps required lots of planning to get the steel chassis to fold together. They require each one to be stamped out, bent to shape, standoffs inserted, then prepped for painting. In the case of the MS amps they require a guy with a cut off saw to cut the long aluminum extrusion to length, then prep it for painting. Since every screw on the MS is self tapping there is minimal effort to putting one together.

I know it is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I am quit shocked you feel exactly the opposite as I do in thinking the ZX is a cheap case and has a cheap feel too it. Of all the amps I have ever dealt with the ZX is one of the best fit and finish I have come across and has the best "feel" to it. I know there must be one out there, but I have never seen any amp made the way a PG ZX or ZPA amp is. Or even a M for that matter. I don't think any other company out there used custom sheet metal work.

KUB3 · Post by **KUB3** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:01 pm

One reason I don't like thin steel sheeting is simply it gets damaged too easily and then rusts. You only have to look at the used examples to see this. The change to alloy was a welcome touch and I'd say those cases are far better looking.

Re: MS screw
Of all the screws I just removed from my amps, every single one is a machined thread, not a coarse self tapping type as described. Of course some screws thread into the round tunnels pre formed into the alloy heatsink. But you'd have a very hard time getting a machine screw started into those tunnels unless the hole was tapped (threaded) first. In fact I have the last two brand new unused 275 heatsinks from PG. They have never been mounted. However those round end tunnels are pre threaded

Post by **Eric D** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:10 pm

I have bought new sinks for my MS amps. They are not prethreaded. Those screws are self tapping. They have a triangular cross section to them which allows them to self tap and push metal aside. Your unused heatsink actually are used. The pre threaded holes are the proof. But, if they came from PG there is a good chance they were just used in a demo product, not an actual product.

ZX chassis don't rust any easier than MS endplates do. Both of which are made of steel. Actually MS endplates are prone to chipping on the bottom very easily. PG should have sand blasted these metal parts prior to coating them so the coating had something to grip.

They did not change to alloy, if anything they changed to steel. The MS line is older than the ZX line.

nico boom · Post by **nico boom** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:13 pm

So we can conclude you guys have a total different feeling about these particular amps!

I have to go with Paul; I once owned a brand new ZX450, it had an easy job, only having to push one composet on each channel, after two months it caught fire when driving and almost set the whole car on fire.

Never had any problems with the MS amps whatsoever.
[I also like weightlifting, so I stick to MS amps

].

Post by **Eric D** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:19 pm

Nico, as you probably know, I actually own more MS amps than ZX, so I am probably with you. I just try to acknowledge the very real flaws in them, as I do with the ZX amps as well. KUB3 is the most arrogant person I have ever come across on this or any forum, so really I just enjoy arguing with him any chance I can get and will continue to do so.

KUB3 · Post by **KUB3** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:26 am

Note to self, don't discuss amps with Eric

When I get around to the rebuilds and upgrades I'll start a new thread without the hijacks, for those that don't think MS amps are a pile of crap

Post by **Eric D** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:57 am

I don't think MS amps are a pile of crap, I just think your poor attitude is a pile of crap.

KUB3 · Post by **KUB3** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:04 am

Well I apologize profusely for not agreeing with every single word you utter. I should not have an opinion on amps I have owned. Clearly my mistake. I'll leave you to it.

Post by **Eric D** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:33 am

It isn't you agreeing with everything I post, it is you disagreeing with everything I post, and then making up information I never stated. I make valid points about what is wrong with MS amps, while I also make valid points about what is wrong with any other PG amp. You extrapolate that out to "I think MS amps are junk". Then why do I own MS amps more than any other amp? I guess I just like collecting junk?

Face it, you are only here to buy up all the best MS amps you can get your hands on and then you will disappear never to be seen again. Six months from now you will have decided your plans have changed and you will dump all these MS amps on eBay.

You are basically using all of us and this forum, and we are not even getting a courtesy reach around for it!

I hate to be a conspiracy theorist but countless parallels can be drawn between you, Andy, and JOMA. You are not a collector, you have no passion for the product, or appreciation for the company, and you really could care less about helping anyone else out on this forum.

KUB3 · Post by **KUB3** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:44 am

Sorry you got that impression. But that is not how I am.

I love M and MS amps. I've owned all the M series in NIB or mint, including rare special editions. I've also had a couple of NIB and mint MS previously. There was only one time I tried another make of amp, because I was scared of leaving NIB M amps in my car as well as the room they take up. I regretted it and came back to PG MS for good.

I am spending hours getting these amps as close to perfection as I possibly can. I am buying mint amps just to get a terminal, or a screw, or little part to put on my best four amps, which I will keep forever. I am knowingly paying over the odds in most cases, so the sellers have been happy. Building a perfect set is not a quick and cheap thing to do. I'm not doing it to sell on. It's not like I to go to FF days to hoover up the lot for next to nothing prices. The only parts I will sell on are the less perfect items that are spare. They have always been sold on to fellow old school PG fans. I think only one time I sold a marked amp cheap on ebay as nobody else wanted it. So please don't make me out to be a devil with a colorful rug.

Neither do I think ZX are poor. In fact I like them. It's just they are not my favorite, sorry.

I don't know any of those people so I won't comment.

Post by **Eric D** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:00 am

I apologize then. A lot of your posts in this thread have been slowly digging under my skin to say the least. However with your last post you have earned back a lot of my respect.

KUB3 · Post by **KUB3** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:56 am

Ok hopefully we can be at peace. At the end of the day I come on forums to learn and share experiences. Sometime it's hard to tell what someone is like with just text to read. So maybe I should be more careful with how I phrase things

Post by **Eric D** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 9:59 am

And obviously I need to be less critical of everyone.

nico boom · Post by **nico boom** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:34 am

...what else can I say.