15F Powercore DOA

Post by **mhyde71** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:26 am

tom shoot me your addy for mailing part to you...

so I show tom and bert are only two wanting one- wasnt there a third?

i have three prepared ready to go...

two accounted for- one left

trl2112 · Post by **trl2112** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:14 am

Hi Matt, I was #3. PM'ed you with my addy.

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

Post by **mhyde71** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:06 am

all connector pieces have been mailed as of yesterday

i also included the screw, lock washer and nut.

FOC (per gratis)

merry xmas guys!

on thier way !

Post by **stipud** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:13 am

You rock!

Post by **mhyde71** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:27 am

TiEcs · Post by **TiEcs** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:09 am

Matt,
Thanks for all dude !!!
The screws arrived, now just install the whole install.
But need to wait until it get's a bit hotter. It is -10°C at the moment, brrrr.

Greetzz

gbody805 · Post by **gbody805** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:52 pm

Hi new from MI here.
I've lurked here for awhile and read alot of good info.

I've read thru all 9 pages.
I went out and unistalled my PC and below are some photos if I can get them to load.

I had it installed in a 98' Durango with two Xenon 1200.1 and one Xenon 200.4 amps.
I have a 0ga from the battery to the PC and 4 ga to the amps with inline fuses.

I upgraded to a 240 amp Alt. and did the big three with 4 ga.

I opened the PC and found the cap body to be in very good shape.
It is the cap with the small tabs not the long tabs.
The only thing I see it a crack where the Neg tab exits the case.
The tabs seem to exit out of what looks like a hard gel instead of black plastic like the rest of the body.
The crack or cracks begin right where the tab exits and extend out in both direction.
Both tabs have some corrosion.
The neg tab has more then the Pos and it seems there is corrosion in both cracks. I can't tell if this is corrosion or something from inside trying to get out. It is white in color.
I'n not sure if I should keep this and reinstall or try to rebuild.
Thanks for any input.

I'm sorry for the photos but it's the best I can do with the camera I have.

Post by **kg1961** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:57 pm

its leaking like allot of them
see if matt has or can get more of the new cap area
sorry to see it

davewaibel · Post by **davewaibel** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:40 pm

just clean the copper and it will be fine, the problem is the bullshit copper straps, thats why alumapro doesnt do that, pg did it to keep it in a neat easy to install package- if the black- gell or whatever you want to call it is cracked that is pretty much fine as long as there isn't white residue coming out of the cap itself- the cap sit behind about a 1/4 of that material, the pictures you showing are electrolysis/oxiding of the copper straps, a little clean up and you will be fine, you can just dress them with a file, there is plenty of copper down there, if you happen to loose a strap to the capacitor itself, you can easily solder that connection back together and use a little expoxy to stablize it- the reason these things cause fire is the stress of the strap versus what it bolts too, and when it fails it falls down onto the case and dead shorts-

Post by **stipud** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:19 pm

That one looks ok to me. Just a bit of corrosion.

Pedi · Post by **Pedi** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:29 pm

davewaibel wrote:just clean the copper and it will be fine, the problem is the bullshit copper straps, thats why alumapro doesnt do that, pg did it to keep it in a neat easy to install package-

OK, now I am not following you here...

Copper straps? I cannot recall seeing copper straps?

Or do you mean: "copper straps = straps (plastic) keeping the copper wires together" - soory about the language issues here....

Post by **ttocs** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:05 pm

look at the pics

Tiger · Post by **Tiger** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:34 pm

Yikes!

The conclusion I'm drawing with this is to pretty much check ANY capacitors/powerbanks that have been lying around or have been unused.

It almost puts me off buying caps altogether! I'm under the impression of upgraded wiriing/alternator/battery wont deem it necessary to get a cap anyway. But having said that, good points were brought up when it only works for particular audio applications that require that little bit more power assistance

Pedi · Post by **Pedi** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:34 am

ttocs wrote:look at the pics

What?

I have looked at the pics, and did not figure. I have never ever heard of copper straps, only iron- and plastic straps...

So that is why I asked....

gridracer · Post by **gridracer** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:20 am

pedi they are talking about the corrosion on the copper buss bars in those pics.

Pedi · Post by **Pedi** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:43 am

gridracer wrote:pedi they are talking about the corrosion on the copper buss bars in those pics.

Thanks, I just figured it out myself...

I still cannot understand why they call power buss bars for straps??

Anyways, now I understand more of the discussion, thanks...

Tiger · Post by **Tiger** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:10 am

I'm curious to know if this is one of the "repaired" ones, or one of the ones yet to be "repaired".

Post by **stipud** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:27 am

Tiger wrote:Yikes!

The conclusion I'm drawing with this is to pretty much check ANY capacitors/powerbanks that have been lying around or have been unused.

It almost puts me off buying caps altogether! I'm under the impression of upgraded wiriing/alternator/battery wont deem it necessary to get a cap anyway. But having said that, good points were brought up when it only works for particular audio applications that require that little bit more power assistance

Most of these 15F capacitors are very reliable and will never have problems like this. I'm not sure what exactly caused our issues but it definitely seems to be out of the ordinary. Corrosion on the buss bars I have seen in nearly all of them, and it doesn't affect their usability. The problem with ours is that they somehow bulged, cracked and exploded out the case. They may still work in this condition but I would rather not find out and risk a grenade going off in my boot.

Getting a capacitor is very worthwhile, but not for the reason most people will tell you. Traditional farad caps don't work well as a "temporary storage" of power, or a bandaid for an uneffective charging system. What they can do extremely well is filter out ripple on your DC power inputs. This keeps your amps powersupply working in optimal condition, which improves SQ by a good margin in a well built system. For this you generally need at most 1-2 farads, and you want the lowest ESR possible (lower ESR = able to filter smaller ripples).

Massive megafarad capacitors like these do a little bit of both. To get their high capacitance they give up ESR. So they can help as a temporary storage, as well as filter out some A/C ripple. With a proper charging system though you would probably be better off with a small cap and lower ESR.

There were also the 20 farad powercores which were just a massive array of small capacitors. Those are the best of both worlds... amazingly low ESR and a huge capacitance bank. Problem is, with that many capacitors, having one leak and short out your entire cap is a very high risk... perhaps even causing fire! That's why PG stopped selling them, and switched to the safer carbon aerogel capacitors.

Pedi · Post by **Pedi** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:33 am

Stipud...

Thank you for your input above. I do agree to what you just wrote.

I remember back in the days, we had an average rule: 1 Fahrad per 1000 watts..

But... Why did a serious company as PG "build/sell" a capasitorbank with 15 and 20 Fahrad? Most guys do not have 15000+ wattage in their car... And companies do today, like Soundstream, have hybrid capasitors with 40 Fahrads... 40000watt in an "common" install ??? I do not get it...

But my real question is:

What if we are talking several capasitorbanks in parallell?? Like 3 or 4 of 15/20 Fahrad units... Will it do any good at all, or is it only waste of funds and space?? I have never given it a REAL thought...

Post by **stipud** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:15 am

That would be a huge waste of money, for sure.

Pedi · Post by **Pedi** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:53 am

stipud wrote:That would be a huge waste of money, for sure.

But how much do you estimate?

I am still the 1 Fahrad equals 1000 watts.

But why did PG sell 20 Fahrad banks? I do not get this, for sure...

Damo95 · Post by **Damo95** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:40 pm

because they could? and for power distribution as well...

Tiger · Post by **Tiger** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:09 pm

stipud wrote: Most of these 15F capacitors are very reliable and will never have problems like this. I'm not sure what exactly caused our issues but it definitely seems to be out of the ordinary. Corrosion on the buss bars I have seen in nearly all of them, and it doesn't affect their usability. The problem with ours is that they somehow bulged, cracked and exploded out the case. They may still work in this condition but I would rather not find out and risk a grenade going off in my boot.

Getting a capacitor is very worthwhile, but not for the reason most people will tell you. Traditional farad caps don't work well as a "temporary storage" of power, or a bandaid for an uneffective charging system. What they can do extremely well is filter out ripple on your DC power inputs. This keeps your amps powersupply working in optimal condition, which improves SQ by a good margin in a well built system. For this you generally need at most 1-2 farads, and you want the lowest ESR possible (lower ESR = able to filter smaller ripples).

Massive megafarad capacitors like these do a little bit of both. To get their high capacitance they give up ESR. So they can help as a temporary storage, as well as filter out some A/C ripple. With a proper charging system though you would probably be better off with a small cap and lower ESR.

There were also the 20 farad powercores which were just a massive array of small capacitors. Those are the best of both worlds... amazingly low ESR and a huge capacitance bank. Problem is, with that many capacitors, having one leak and short out your entire cap is a very high risk... perhaps even causing fire! That's why PG stopped selling them, and switched to the safer carbon aerogel capacitors.

That makes sense in a nutshell. Thanks for that

I used to be under the same impression that Pedi thought aswell: 1000W = 1 Farad required.

Well, I'll assess my setup once it's all in and SEE if it's necessary or not. I think alot of people actually get a cap for "wank factor" in an install.

gridracer · Post by **gridracer** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:21 pm

most places that sell caps use the 1000w/1farad rule of thumb too as a marketing tool to take kids money. I think I only ever sold 1 or 2 caps when I was still working.
I never really believed in them there is 2 reasons I have a powercore
1. for power distribution and
B I got it for like $76 BNIB

Tiger · Post by **Tiger** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:30 pm

Bargain!!!

I think that was a VERY bad marketing weapon for caps too! It worked though :p

15F Powercore DOA

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