PG will have NO internet sales... piss-poor decision IMO

[NewOldStock]

Well, according to the last thing I read from PG, there will be NO legitimate internet sales of PG gear.

the new Phoenix Gold product WILL NOT be sold through any online retailer or big box store!

Looks like I wont be buying any new PG anything from AAMP unless they sell it directly.

I absolutely REFUSE to buy from Car Toys or any of the other WAY overpriced local stores I have seen carry the PG brand. there is only a small outside chance I would ever buy something from Outrageous Audio... but thats a small chance and assumes they will still be a dealer.

Thats really unfortunate from my perspective. I am sure some of you B&M guys will be happy about the decision, but in this day and age not selling online will keep Phoenix Gold as a tiny niche brand that always struggles to survive and eventually is starved for money, kinda like last time, and the time before that... not that history repeats itself or anything.

I am sure that the internet is a passing fad that surely will die-out and everyone will be forced to go back to places like Car Toys (The cell phone experts) with their horrible salespeople that don't know the products, shitty service and way overpriced gear... after all, that's where I want to go have my new Phoenix Gold 2500.1 and 2 12" TI's installed to compliment my factory head unit and OEM speakers.

Normally I am WAY more of an optimist than this but honestly, when I can buy gear of similar quality through authorized online retailer there is no reason at all to have to drive an hour and a half round trip just to buy overpriced PG gear from some shitty teenager that specializes in cell phones.

Flame on if you must... but even selling through Amazon or Crutchfield would be better than nothing. I dont hear a ton of B&M shops bitching that they cant sell Focal gear because its available at Crutchfield... and I am pretty sure that the items for sale on Amazon right now, didnt put the nail in the coffin for Rodin.

[stipud]

Why do you say car toys? In the very same sentence he also states it won't be at big box stores either... I would condsider them a big box store myself.

It sounds like they want to support all the local car audio shops who are actually passionate about what they do. It's those small gigs that are hurt the most by internet sales as well, not the big box stores.

AAMP will probably have a lot of different Brick & Morter dealers lined up as well, due to their brand connections. So there will probably be an awesome little shop local to you that will sell it.

[ttocs]

I support the decision, they are going back to their roots where they were more successful and popular. From what I hear there are other companies comming back out shortly that are also going to be B and M's, no other details yet but it may suprise you. The car audio industry has been hurt by the net, transhippers, and the race to 0 and needed to make a change to continue its success. Hopefully they will be wise in selecting their dealers that will provide good customer support the way they did back in the day. When my shop had them in the M-Ti line EVERYONE in that store/shop knew those amps in and out and we went above and beyond to take care of our customers in a way no online retailer could ever do.

It would be nice if they could maybe "bend" the rule for the regulars here for one-er-two for our collections but it will be easier to say all or nothing. I assume you are out a ways and just do not have any good shops nearby?

[ez4menyou]

i can see why that would make phoenix gold like a niche brand but instead of getting new customers they will just be keeping the old ones or a few new ones . these days people will shop around for the best deal on stuff they usually check the local shops then online and see were they can get it cheaper. if anything they should sell factory direct that way they dont have to worry about being undercut or anything and still be competitve with amp speaker companys like sundown and others. just my opinion

[Rold Gold]

I can't say I'm unhappy about this....

Car Toys isn't gonna have it anyhow I hear.... Car Stereo City will be getting it back...... OA will still have it and KingPin aswell.....

I'm sure WE will get a deal aswell at some point...... F&F style......

[itchnertamatoa]

I'm sure WE will get a deal aswell at some point...... F&F style......

that'd be great if we did, somehow have first shots at the LE amps
I'm starting the line for 'the one'

[bruther]

I don't really like this idea. I want to buy products for the cheapest price. There is no kid at a store selling me Phoenix Gold that is going to provide "value" to me. I like the factory direct option.

[Stryker]

I know what I want and do not need an "expert" to help me make my decision. That being said I can see why they may be going this way. I'm all about the price in most instances as I have family responsibility's at home, hopefully members of the Phorum will get some sort of one time only special purchase price if they have been a member for "x" amount of time. that would be cool and really prove to me they actually care about us guys who have been long time supporters. Thats just my .02.

[NewOldStock]

I don't really like this idea. I want to buy products for the cheapest price. There is no kid at a store selling me Phoenix Gold that is going to provide "value" to me. I like the factory direct option.

I see Best Buy (I.e. Fosgate) as a big box store that wont get the new PG gear and Car Toys as having too much of a market presence to be ignored... since they have pretty well put 95% of the mom and pop B&M's out of business.

I can appreciate the idea that PG wants to protect their brand by not selling any/many products and building a new client base. I mean, look at how selling tons of products has driven the JL brand into the ground... its shameful really.

As soon as someone here can show me a mom and pop shop that can keep prices low enough to compete with similar quality brands sold online without me having to spend hours and hours building a relationship to get that good pricing (like I did when i was 16) then I will shop them exclusively... otherwise, I see this as another nail in the coffin for PG.

As stated by almost everyone on this site - we buy and install our own gear. We're not the high-school girl that just wants to slam subs into the trunk of her 1982 honda. We want quality products without the bullshit hassle of some pimply faced dipshit trying to sell us garbage that they dont even understand - try asking someone what "strapping" an amp means the next time your at a car stereo shop... when they dont know, just go ahead and leave.

As for the worthwhile B&M's that are passionate about their craft... give THEM a deal on the products. let THEM decide a price point that they can actually sell the items at. Sell the products to online distributors at a different MAP pricing level to protect the dealers that are worth having around. I am CERTAIN there are dealers out there that arent stealerships or that will sell an amp to a guy for a decent price... now I guess I will have to search the internet for THAT... or I can just buy a Focal amp and have it delivered and not have to deal with the bullshit, the drive, the hours to get to know the shop owner, etc... just to get a decent price. Dont get me wrong, I am all for getting to know your local shop owner, some of them are hella-cool people, but with a wife and 2 kids I dont exactly have the time to make an unneeded trip to a dealership to build a relationship so I can buy at a decent price. I dont need to talk to the owner about thoughts on this amp vs that amp. What I need is the ability to get done with my 50hr a week job, spend an hour online while the kids are finishing dinner and order the parts I need for an install. Sound boards are great... but I am not willing to spend more of my $$ or my time to listen to 10% of the available gear and then buy something thats ultimately not on the sound board anyway.

I am as passionate about PG succeeding as anyone and have gotten into it more than once on these very forums about not giving up on the idea that PG could be PG again... the problem is... with this kind of short-sightedness, they are becoming PG again. I want to see PG thrive, not just tread water. Build a strong fan base and a devout following (i.e. JL Audio) Ending their web presence is not the way to do that.

Everything is shopped for online. Everything. I have even shopped for medical services online and the fact that the information is available tells me I am not the only one.

As for the Phorum deal and the F&F type of thing... I fully expect that to be gone forever. While the Phorum might be the official PG forum, we weren't even privy to most new photos of the new gear... they were posted on facebook and we had to find them ourselves, or get told of them a week or two later. We DID get 25 free T-shirts, that was cool... otherwise nothing gives me the impression that the phorum would get anything special, let alone a discount or F&F sale.

[fordtough1]

I read this as well, and I'm very disappointed. I was hoping for an online authorized retailer also. I don't buy hardly anything at local stores anymore. It's just not worth the hassle to me of going there, getting pissed off when some dumbass tries to talk you out of what you came there to buy, and then paying to much for the pleasure of getting to deal with said dumbass. With the exception of groceries, I buy nearly everything online for exactly that reason.

I hope AAMP reconsiders this...

[Jason84]

Wow you guys must have some horrible local stores in your area. Where do you guys live ? Maybe we should open some stores in your area !

I am kind of happy PG is not being whored out all over online and cannot wait to get the new product.

As for online sales I think the main reason I think is people keep going cheaper and cheaper to beat other online prices and it gets to the point where you are selling it for cost +$5 and thats what puts mom and pop stores out of buisness. There is no real way of regulating online pricing I dont care who you are for a company and how many people you have working that department. And they dont want that to happen with the brand.


As for pricing I think the new PG gear is very reasonably priced. If you cant afford to pay retail for something maybe you shouldnt be buying it?


If mom and pop shops went out of buisness what would happen to the car audio industry? It would probably be done..

Who hosts all the car shows/audio competitions ?? mom and pop shops...
If some kid cant figure out a problem with his setup or whatnot where do they go? Mom and pop shops.

no mom and pop shops = dead car audio industry

[Bfowler]

i think every brand needs at least one or two online resellers. the key part is to stay on their ass about sticking to map pricing. where pg spoiled it was whoring out their gear to everyone, at way lower the dealer prices.

i remember getting into a very heated argument with pg about how ridiculous that it was that i could buy their gear cheaper online, then directly from them at my dealer prices. THAT is what put pg out of business. and ruined their relation ship with B&M stores.

[Irongoats]

Just tell me who the hell is going to sell some new shit then I'll decide.

[AVICJR]

I'm hoping PG will change their minds eventually. It's hard to find a legitimate, knowledgeable retailer in my area that isn't a crook.

If they don't then I guess it won't matter as I have all the gear I need and then some. Most of which I bought online and authorized from Sound Domain, with extended warranties. I also bought from "PG Direct", their short-lived ebay store.

Guys like me are the one's getting the shaft from this decision.

[gridracer]

Unfortunately the store I deal with probably won't carry PG this time around as the competitor down the street already sells Stinger and deal with Gentec international which is ironic because when I worked there all they ever did was bash PG to push Orion.(I still had PG in my car though) The good thing is I worked there at still get pretty decent prices on stuff if I deal with some of the guys I worked with that are still there.
I have been talking to the shop that used to sell PG about getting it back and they said they were going to look into it.
I liked to be able to buy it online cheap but I know that is the reason my favorite place dropped it.

[NewOldStock]

Wow you guys must have some horrible local stores in your area. Where do you guys live ? Maybe we should open some stores in your area !

yes please ... like I mentioned above, 90 minute drive to the closest hope of a shop that wont try and rape me with crap products and idiot salespeople.

As for pricing I think the new PG gear is very reasonably priced. If you cant afford to pay retail for something maybe you shouldnt be buying it?

your absolutely right, why would I ever want to buy a superior product for less than absolutely necessary? Next time I go onto a car lot I wont bother to haggle with the salesman, I'll just cut a check for the full amount... Its not about trying to buy at less than MSRP, its about not paying OVER MSRP because the dealer knows that there are limited places to purchase a specific product and therefore can, and will, charge a premium. I am also not against paying a premium price for a premium product, but what I AM against is paying a premium price for services that I dont need or want - such as paying a salesmans salary when they dont need to sell me anything, I have already done my homework, on the internet and just want to walk in, buy, and get out. I dont go shopping, thats what my wife does... I go buying. let the people that need to ask advice pay for the overhead of that advice... not me.

If mom and pop shops went out of buisness what would happen to the car audio industry? It would probably be done..

Welcome to the world of Car Toys...

Who hosts all the car shows/audio competitions ??

Car Toys... the Walmart of car audio chains

If some kid cant figure out a problem with his setup or whatnot where do they go? Mom and pop shops.

I dont know what its like where you live, but 100% of the car audio shops I used to spend my $$ and my time at are gone... the Mom and Pops have virtually vanished. similar to mom and pop grocery stores in the shadow of Walmart.

no mom and pop shops = dead car audio industry

I disagree completely. now more than ever before are people doing installs in their driveway, garage, friends place, etc... and looking to the internet for inspiration, idea's, technical how-to's and even to forums to help solve their technical problems. Dont believe me? take a look at the forum your on/in right now. the Installs section where we show off our work and look for inspiration. How many of those installs were done at a mom and pop shop? How about the How-To/FAQ section? Where we learn how to do new things... or the Car Audio section where we post up the problems we are having and help troubleshoot each others problems...

In what way has a Mom and Pop shop or even Car Toys or Audio FX or any of those shops helped any of us find, fix or install any of our old-school PG gear? The internet has brought all of us together under the common thread of a car audio brand we love... and obviously we are all passionate about it... seems to me that neither Mom and Pop shops or Walmart-like chains have anything to do with it. At least not for most of us.

[NewOldStock]

i think every brand needs at least one or two online resellers. the key part is to stay on their ass about sticking to map pricing. where pg spoiled it was whoring out their gear to everyone, at way lower the dealer prices.

Absolutely right... it would take slightly more effort but not having a web presence is a bad idea.

I am 100% for giving B&M's a better/deeper discount than online retailers - let the B&M's compete for pricing. give online retailers a different level of MAP pricing, give the B&M a deeper discount so they can make a couple % more and cover their overhead... instead of having to charge that same % more on top of MSRP to cover that overhead and killing their profit margins.

As for the worthwhile B&M's that are passionate about their craft... give THEM a deal on the products. let THEM decide a price point that they can actually sell the items at. Sell the products to online distributors at a different MAP pricing level to protect the dealers that are worth having around

[Rold Gold]

As for pricing I think the new PG gear is very reasonably priced. If you cant afford to pay retail for something maybe you shouldnt be buying it?

Spoken like a true retailer.........
I try to support my local B&M every chance I get but it's hard paying $5 per foot of 0/1g at the store when I can get the same wire for $2.50 shipped online..... Ya know what I mean.......
Not to sound cheap but there ain't that many people these days not looking to get the best deal they can find......on EVERYTHING WE BUY And to be honest, my collection of PG gear has me set for the next 6-8 cars I buy....... much like alot of the guys around here I could stop buying now...... but don't want to.....

[SolacE]

much like alot of the guys around here I cannot stop buying......


There you go Roldy I fixed your last statement for you.

[gridracer]

much like alot of the guys around here I cannot stop buying......

So true

[ttocs]

has anyone noticed the corrilation between the rise of the internet, and the falling out of so many car audio companies? I am not talking about B and M shops but major brands like eclipse and panasonic just to mention a few, now throw in all the B and M shops that failed as well and I think we might be onto something. The rise of the internet and all the trans-shippers it made coined a term I think I heard bondo correctly call the race to $0. Everyone online is just trying everything they can, to undercut the next guy, charge less and race to $0 where no one makes any money and all our toys go away...

I have rarely had a problem going into a B and M shop, explaining my situation and what I was willing to pay and why, and getting what I wanted. Yes they will try and add something on but for christ sakes at mcdonalds they are gonna ask you if you want an apple pie too! If you can't go into a shop and sell the fact that you know what you know, which may be more then the kid at the counter or may not then I do not know what kind of shops you have around you. Worked in a few and been in a bunch but never experienced what you describe.

[fuzzysnuggleduck]

has anyone noticed the corrilation between the rise of the internet, and the falling out of so many car audio companies? I am not talking about B and M shops but major brands like eclipse and panasonic just to mention a few, now throw in all the B and M shops that failed as well and I think we might be onto something. The rise of the internet and all the trans-shippers it made coined a term I think I heard bondo correctly call the race to $0. Everyone online is just trying everything they can, to undercut the next guy, charge less and race to $0 where no one makes any money and all our toys go away...

I have rarely had a problem going into a B and M shop, explaining my situation and what I was willing to pay and why, and getting what I wanted. Yes they will try and add something on but for christ sakes at mcdonalds they are gonna ask you if you want an apple pie too! If you can't go into a shop and sell the fact that you know what you know, which may be more then the kid at the counter or may not then I do not know what kind of shops you have around you. Worked in a few and been in a bunch but never experienced what you describe.

I'm not certain it's "the Internet" that's correlated closely to the race to 0. It's markets in the western world in general, even those where online sales aren't a factor. Fast food, for example. Each chain races to have the cheapest product. Wal-Mart, again a race to 0. Neither are primarily Internet based.

It's western society.

[dontlookatme]

every b&m shop that sold pg tried to rip me off. i always ended up forking out the money and being bitter because i wanted the gear. yes i was happy with the product but hell no i wasnt happy i paid more than i should of. its like paying 3.50 for gas driving a block away and seeing gas for 3.25. if i go ape shit over 25 cents on gas imagine how ape shit i go over the amount of $$$ i over pay at b&m. im glad they arent being sold in a big box but PG is already on thin ice. we dont know how amazing they really are. everything is amazing on paper and web but until i see and hear ill stick with the oldies n goldies

As for the worthwhile B&M's that are passionate about their craft... give THEM a deal on the products. let THEM decide a price point that they can actually sell the items at. Sell the products to online distributors at a different MAP pricing level to protect the dealers that are worth having around

[/quote]

i completely agree with u but mep pricing is like communism... it only works in theory. if everyone actually did map pricing it would be amazing and everyone would benefit and DEVOTED PHORUM MEMBERS AND PG OWNERS WOULDNT BE COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS (hint hint AAMP)

[Pillow]

A lot of great points here, so I will not rehash too much. I strongly agree that an online presence is necessary to survive and thrive. It seems that some manufactures are ONLY selling on the internet and are doing well!

Example just from yesterday. I needed some white undershirts and black dress socks. I know exactly what I wanted (as I buy the same thing all the time) and so I went online and purchased the items from JCPenney.com with free shipping and an online discount... The actual JC Penney store is 15 minutes away. Why do I want to go to a mall? Why do I want to drive somewhere unnecessarily?... On the flip side there are plenty of clothing items which I will not buy online like shoes, dress shirts, ties, suits and so forth which require proper fitting.

My vote is for regulated online sales... Otherwise brands like Audio Pipe, MB Quart (discus amps), Sundown, and JL will continue to dominate with the sell a lot and sell it cheap online game plan. And amazingly enough some of these products are excellent values as well for quality products (Sundown).

You either market to the kids (boomers) or get in with the SQ crowd with amazing features and clarity over the competition... Like the ZX450/Ti500.4 which is/was packed with features.

Hopefully our opinions get heard buy big brother I still suspect the sales team will bundle AAMP goods, so whoever sells Stinger will have to take PG as well and so forth. You will not just be a PG dealer, you will be an AAMP dealer.

[fordtough1]

I completely understand the need for Mom and Pop stores, and I think they are a good thing. They are not however a perfect fit for everyone. Alot of people spend hours and hours researching this stuff themselves so they can make an informed purchase when the time comes. I use the internet to get opinions of gear before I buy it, from the people who are using it. Going to a Mom and Pop store isn't going to give me the info I need to make an informed decision, but I have to pay their markup for the priviledge of talking to them.

I like Apple's way of doing things. They set the prices you pay for their stuff. That way no matter where you buy it, from their online store to Wal-mart, you pay the same price. Seems like a good way to sell electronic gear, or anything else to me...