FRESH IDEAS FOR MY DILEMMA - SILVERADO CDT 3-WAY INSTALL

ShockTherapy · Post by **ShockTherapy** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:05 am

Hi everyone. I'm racking my friggin brain trying to figure out how to get my mids into some sealed airspace. My doors are a little hacked up from my previous crappy install. I came up with the kooky idea below but realized it wouldn't work. I really need some help here. i'm sure someone here has worked on a Tahoe or Silverado and done something creative. Any help would truly be appreciated. I have about 50sqft of deadener to add to the doors... I was even considering fancying something out of layers of deadener. grrr. HELP!

Post by **ttocs** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:18 am

I caught some flack for this before, but I still support it... have you considered fashoning an enclosure on the back our of tupperware? 3rd row of pics down on the left. It has been done for some time now as they come in almost any size and work if you take the proper precautions.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2395420/7

The important part of it is to dampen the "enclosure" with sound damping and to get a good seal. Be sure to put as large of a piece as you can across the bottom of the bowl so as it will flex and resonate with the speakers cone if you don't.

What I did for mounting was cut some slits in the in the lid every inch and then used those to allow me to flex the top of the enclosure flat to the wood baffle. I put a good ring of silicone around the top and then staples to hole the enclosure to the baffle. To help it seal a littel better I used some second skin and made a strip that I put across the plastic/wood joint. You could probably just glue it to the back of the door panel with some epoxy rather then the wood baffle.

You get some funny looks in the tupperware section holding a speaker and trying to find the right size so I recomend going to walmart. We all know that you can go there and never get looked at strangly, unless you have all your teeth....

Post by **ttocs** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:21 am

I didn't see the first pic. If you can make rings, why not just make your frame and glass it? Get some spacers and you can make it as deep as you can or should.

scottn29 · Post by **scottn29** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:50 am

This is for your little midrange not your midbass right?

dontlookatme · Post by **dontlookatme** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:12 am

What year is ur Rado?

ShockTherapy · Post by **ShockTherapy** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:14 pm

dontlookatme wrote:What year is ur Rado?

99 newer style. They changed the truck mid year. This is for the 4" midrange. CDT says that it needs .04cuft. The midbass will go in the door and the door is going to be deadened twice as much as it is now. I want to get some sort of plan so i can get this done. my door panels are off and I need to be able to drive my truck normally.

I was thinking about taping off a section and a cavity in the opening then glassing a flat. then building a very shallow frame with a ring supported in the middle, then stretch some fleece over it and glass it. wouldnt have to build it up much... its just a 4". lotta work though. trying to do something reasonable.

ShockTherapy · Post by **ShockTherapy** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:18 pm

ttocs wrote:I caught some flack for this before, but I still support it... have you considered fashoning an enclosure on the back our of tupperware? 3rd row of pics down on the left. It has been done for some time now as they come in almost any size and work if you take the proper precautions.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2395420/7

The important part of it is to dampen the "enclosure" with sound damping and to get a good seal. Be sure to put as large of a piece as you can across the bottom of the bowl so as it will flex and resonate with the speakers cone if you don't.

What I did for mounting was cut some slits in the in the lid every inch and then used those to allow me to flex the top of the enclosure flat to the wood baffle. I put a good ring of silicone around the top and then staples to hole the enclosure to the baffle. To help it seal a littel better I used some second skin and made a strip that I put across the plastic/wood joint. You could probably just glue it to the back of the door panel with some epoxy rather then the wood baffle.

You get some funny looks in the tupperware section holding a speaker and trying to find the right size so I recomend going to walmart. We all know that you can go there and never get looked at strangly, unless you have all your teeth....

THIS WAS LITERALLY CAUSING ME A HEADACHE! THIS IS MY DECISION AND PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU THINK. I'M GOING TO DEADEN AND SEAL UP THE DOOR AND HAVE THE es-6 MIDBASS THERE. I JUST PURCHASED A SET OF Q-LOGIC KICKS WHICH I AM GOING TO DEADEN AND REINFORCE. THIS SHOULD GIVE ME THE BEST POSSIBLE IMAGING AND SEPERATION. I'M ALSO INSTALLING A CDT UPSTAGE KIT TO RAISE MY SOUNDSTAGE AND INCREASE IMAGING AND STAGING. WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK???

Post by **ttocs** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:26 pm

I think you need to stop yelling

ShockTherapy · Post by **ShockTherapy** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 6:55 am

ttocs wrote:I think you need to stop yelling

Hahaha, sorry bout that. I'm pretty excited though! I've finally decided on a good way of mounting my components. One question... A tutorial on CDT showed the E-6 midbass mounted at an angle firing towards the dome light. Is this necessary? I've never angled a midbass so some thoughts on that would be helpful. Actually, I've never used or heard kickpanels! I've always used the doors. If what they say is true about kicks these should really give me the imaging i've been looking for. Does anyone have any suggestions on beefing up those kicks? I'm so far going to add 2-3 layers of deadener, then add a few coats of fiberglass resin w/ hardener to the inside... should be like a rock afterwards. Do I need to add deadener to the floor under it? Anyone know any tricks to covering up the holes I havein my doors for the tweeters? I was thinking of getting some old cups and color matching them to blend.

Does anyone have a set or two of the DRT-26A Aluminum tweeters they wanna sell? I just need the pop in drivers of course.

Post by **ttocs** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:29 am

yes you do sound excited... Kicks are great as long as nobodys feet are in the way and are not kickin a hole in them. I love mine most of the time and hate them sometimes too. As for sound daming and then glass I think you need to reverse the order but the glass isn't needed anyway.

As for angling the woofer I would suspect that is because it doesn't have a very good off-axis responce but I am not exactly sure.

To cover the hole, make a piece of wood to go over that entire area under the grill on the door panel, you can even replace the grill with it if you dress it up nicely.

Post by **stipud** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:47 am

We built Ryan's kickpanels out of a plastic cup with clay to deaden it on the inside and outside. A definite improvement over the basic Q-forms, but I find the enclosures a bit on the small side. One day I want to fiberglass them completely over the back to maximize the enclosure size.

Post by **ttocs** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:31 am

how do you plan on getting the glass to bond to the plastic?

ShockTherapy · Post by **ShockTherapy** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:01 am

ttocs wrote:how do you plan on getting the glass to bond to the plastic?

They have this spray coating at the paint shop that will fix that. I'm on the look out for a set of door panels from the wrecking yard. If I'm going the kickpanel route I want my doors looking stock again.

I spent some time yesterday deadening the door. I used (2) 18x36 sheets on each door. and remember that the doors were already deadened. I just wanted to seal them up the best I can so that my midbass gets what it needs.

One last thing. Does anyone have any experience with the CDT upstage kits. I'm going to install the kit to raise my soundstage and improve imaging. We'll see how it works... if it doesn't meet my expectations it will be taken out right away. I'm looking to finally "finish" my install and actually use my truck.

Post by **ttocs** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:07 am

I wasn't aware that glass was able to bond to plastic, I will have to see that spray I guess. It will stick, but not bond and at least for a while but the differences in the expansion rates and all the vibrations will mean that it will eventually seperate. When I have seen or used glass on plastice it was always recomended to drill holes in the plastice to get it to bond through or around the plastic.

Post by **smgreen20** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:20 am

Do your kicks w/the parking brake pushed down. It WILL get in the way if you use it. I rarely use mine so I didn't worry about it, until a friend barrowed my truck for the weekend to go boating. He used the parking brake and damaged my kicks. He didn't know and it was a good excuse to do the door panels I wanted to do.

Keep the tweet and 4" mid as close as possable.

Let me know what you think when you're done. I'm thinking of the Dynaudio 362 set again.

ShockTherapy · Post by **ShockTherapy** » Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:59 pm

smgreen20 wrote:Do your kicks w/the parking brake pushed down. It WILL get in the way if you use it. I rarely use mine so I didn't worry about it, until a friend barrowed my truck for the weekend to go boating. He used the parking brake and damaged my kicks. He didn't know and it was a good excuse to do the door panels I wanted to do.

Keep the tweet and 4" mid as close as possable.

Let me know what you think when you're done. I'm thinking of the Dynaudio 362 set again.

As much as would have liked to fab up some kicks I will be using the q-forms. I will however be deadening the snot out of them. Here's the ones I'll be installing. I have SEM color match paint to blend them.

ShockTherapy · Post by **ShockTherapy** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:29 pm

smgreen20 wrote:Do your kicks w/the parking brake pushed down. It WILL get in the way if you use it. I rarely use mine so I didn't worry about it, until a friend barrowed my truck for the weekend to go boating. He used the parking brake and damaged my kicks. He didn't know and it was a good excuse to do the door panels I wanted to do.

Keep the tweet and 4" mid as close as possable.

Let me know what you think when you're done. I'm thinking of the Dynaudio 362 set again.

The 362 set is very nice. Very smooth and natural sounding. I think this truck screams for a 3-way setup. I should be done in a week and then I will give my honest opinion and review of the speakers. I want to make sure that I cover all the bases. I want to make sure the kicks are set up and deadened nice for the ES-4 and DRT-26. I also want to make sure that the doors are deadened and sealed up the best I can. Until now I ran them on the two front channels of my Arc 4150CXLR. After this the Arc will be bridged to 320x2 at 4ohm for the Euros. I will be incorporating an old school MTX Thunder 240 to run the rear fill. The rear fill is a simple set of 4" MbQuart Reference mids playing low. I don't want to take away from my frontstage.

todd217 · Post by **todd217** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:06 pm

i know how to get glass to bond to most plastics. you dont use resin you use CA like this http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wt ... LXFLA1&P=M

Post by **ttocs** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:11 pm

I am familiar enoug with CA to have used it to glue many thing to me, or me to many things

... Even know of one installer that glued his eye shut with it(insert one-eyed smiley) but never used it to bond glass to plastic. interesting.....

oldskoolmseriesfan · Post by **oldskoolmseriesfan** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:44 pm

Cant you just sand the surface of the plastic to roughen up the surface for the glass to bond too? Im almost 100% positive this works better than drilling holes through, for the glass to bond to the surface, less mess too.

I will ask the installer tommorow at work and see what he has to offer on the subject.

todd217 · Post by **todd217** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:29 am

the bad thing about using large amounts of ca is the fumes it gives off. i have used it many times to bond fg tape to the abs hulls of my rc boats for added strength.

Post by **smgreen20** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:27 am

When resins and body fillers are involved, I doubt fumes from the CA glue will matter.

I've seen those Q-forms before. I just don't like how the mid is angled/looks. When I made my kicks, the soundstage was to low, right at the steering wheel level. The mid bass driver (for me- my opinion) will stay low, but the mid range/tweet need to stay up high.

I have no $$ at this point in time, but the options I'm looking at are:
Dynaudio 362
Eclipse SC8365
Focal 165A3/165KRX3

Or buy seperate drivers to replace the mid bass, mid range drivers, and the tweets.

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:12 am

fiberglass will "stick" to plastic assuming it is cleaned of any oils and dirt much like it will stick to almost anything, but it will not bond to it. This means that for a short time, probably very short it would work but with vbrations and any good impact it will seperate at the joint. That is why people drill holes and then get it to bond around the plastic, through the holes and lock it into place with the piece.

The fumes from CA is different and stronger IMO. It kind of burns my nose and I swear I can almost feel the fumes sticking inside my nose. The large amounts that would be needed to bond a piece to the plastic would take some time. The other concern is that CA is not very impact resistant so if it were to sustain a good blow it could seperate in that are and then grown from vibrations.

Post by **ttocs** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:12 am

wonder if we could mix some ca into the the glass resin?

ShockTherapy · Post by **ShockTherapy** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:02 am

ttocs wrote:wonder if we could mix some ca into the the glass resin?

I think I'm just going to layer it a few times with Dynamat Extreme then add some clay. since I'm using a 4" speaker and the kickpanel will take up to a 5.25" maybe I could add a ring on the inside to screw into??? hmm. I have a machined 3/4" MDF ring made especially for that woofer sittin around... I would like to somehow use it in the kickpanel.