PG will have NO internet sales... piss-poor decision IMO

reallyxxxxxxloud · Post by **reallyxxxxxxloud** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:37 am

fordtough1 wrote:I completely understand the need for Mom and Pop stores, and I think they are a good thing. They are not however a perfect fit for everyone. Alot of people spend hours and hours researching this stuff themselves so they can make an informed purchase when the time comes. I use the internet to get opinions of gear before I buy it, from the people who are using it. Going to a Mom and Pop store isn't going to give me the info I need to make an informed decision, but I have to pay their markup for the priviledge of talking to them.

I like Apple's way of doing things. They set the prices you pay for their stuff. That way no matter where you buy it, from their online store to Wal-mart, you pay the same price. Seems like a good way to sell electronic gear, or anything else to me...

Yes a good Idea forcing back good service. I'll definitely travel further if it means I'm going to get better service etc...

NewOldStock · Post by **NewOldStock** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:48 am

ttocs wrote:I have rarely had a problem going into a B and M shop, explaining my situation and what I was willing to pay and why, and getting what I wanted. Yes they will try and add something on but for christ sakes at mcdonalds they are gonna ask you if you want an apple pie too! If you can't go into a shop and sell the fact that you know what you know, which may be more then the kid at the counter or may not then I do not know what kind of shops you have around you. Worked in a few and been in a bunch but never experienced what you describe.

Thats kinda the problem ... the number of B&M's that will actually talk with you versus sell you something has dwindled to the point that to find them, you have to be "in the know" or make an extra trip somewhere needlessly.

I am not saying I know everything about car audio - I think thats pretty clear by the questions I still ask in the forums - but I can guarantee that I know more about the specific products I want to buy than the high-school kid walking around selling cell phones at the closest Car Toys and after my last trip to NBA car audio here in the couve where the owner talked me up about I should let him do my install and I could get a "normal" install in my 98 Tacoma for 7k or his "signature" install for 10k (where he signs my subs) I wont be going back there for anything... ever. and just for the record, my "install" consisted of splits in my doors, 2 8" subs and 2 2-channel amps - all of which I already owned. no big bad fiberglass and mirrors, no LED's... for $7,000.00.

I also remember being young and wanting badly to buy my first PG amp, an MS275. the shop I had spent months and months at (if you added all the hours I had spent there) wanted 1200.00 each for them. I bought Orion gear instead... So, if I had the option of looking to PG themselves for pricing versus going to a dealer, I would have been able to afford my MS amps, I just would have bought them from PG directly. PG would have gotten my money (and who knows how many others) and might still be in business.

Post by **Rold Gold** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:23 am

If PG modeled their site like JL and put in a store it would make most of us happy. JL doesn't whore gear out but they do offer support and keep prices in check..... And in turn keep B&M's under control....

Maybe AMMP should be the ONLY online retailer and leave it at that..... All MSRP pricing and free shipping......done..........

Post by **kg1961** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:25 am

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:If PG modeled their site like JL and put in a store it would make most of us happy. JL doesn't whore gear out but they do offer support and keep prices in check..... And in turn keep B&M's under control....

Maybe AMMP should be the ONLY online retailer and leave it at that..... All MSRP pricing and free shipping......done..........

X2

NewOldStock · Post by **NewOldStock** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:40 am

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:If PG modeled their site like JL and put in a store it would make most of us happy. JL doesn't whore gear out but they do offer support and keep prices in check..... And in turn keep B&M's under control....

Maybe AMMP should be the ONLY online retailer and leave it at that..... All MSRP pricing and free shipping......done..........

X3

fordtough1 · Post by **fordtough1** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:48 am

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:If PG modeled their site like JL and put in a store it would make most of us happy. JL doesn't whore gear out but they do offer support and keep prices in check..... And in turn keep B&M's under control....

Maybe AMMP should be the ONLY online retailer and leave it at that..... All MSRP pricing and free shipping......done..........

x4

fordtough1 · Post by **fordtough1** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:50 am

reallyxxxxxxloud wrote:
fordtough1 wrote:I completely understand the need for Mom and Pop stores, and I think they are a good thing. They are not however a perfect fit for everyone. Alot of people spend hours and hours researching this stuff themselves so they can make an informed purchase when the time comes. I use the internet to get opinions of gear before I buy it, from the people who are using it. Going to a Mom and Pop store isn't going to give me the info I need to make an informed decision, but I have to pay their markup for the priviledge of talking to them.

I like Apple's way of doing things. They set the prices you pay for their stuff. That way no matter where you buy it, from their online store to Wal-mart, you pay the same price. Seems like a good way to sell electronic gear, or anything else to me...
Yes a good Idea forcing back good service. I'll definitely travel further if it means I'm going to get better service etc...

I agree with you to a point. I do appreciate good service, but not at the expense of getting bent over on pricing...

Post by **Rold Gold** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:52 am

Well,
Like everybody is saying, we all install our own shit..... All I want is support when I have questions and warranty when shit fails...... End of story.... That shouldn't cost me %25 over msrp.......

Post by **ttocs** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:51 am

I think you guys are jumping the guns to tell the truth. They are going to tell us that there will be NO internet sales right up to the point that there will be and they announce their official retailer. At this point it sounds like they have not picked the B&M shops yet, let alone a HUGE decision such as WHO would be their authorized dealer online.

Unfortunatly the only place that only half way protects its prices is crutchfield and you are not going to save much $$$ there just the trip to the store that so many of you dread.

Can I also take a moment to point out the humor that we are complaining about having to drive our cars for an hour or more to get to enjoy a stereo in them? It seems almost as funny as complaining that you have to park too far out in the parking lot when you go to your gym.... Am I the only one that doesn't enjoy that day that you decide that you are going to go to the store and buy what you have been waiting for? I enjoy that much much more then tracking its travel online for a week and hoping that A.)when it gets here I will be here to recieve it B.) I know that it will look like the throwers at usps or ups had a kickball party with my new toy! I do not see them hurting your favorite shirt in shipping by I know that if I ordered a "ONE" amp that it would look like it was taken out of a car in iraq.......

Post by **Rold Gold** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:17 am

As a matter of fact ttocs.....
Per my contacts, they have already chosen most of the dealers (in my area atleast) and are just trying to get afew more onboard.......Not to mention that they're trying to get the gear off the boats to get it out to them..... I was also assured that they had NO PLANS for any online retailers................. I'll trust what my good friend Jorge Fornos says as he would know........

dontlookatme · Post by **dontlookatme** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:19 am

Actually it's sometimes cheaper to buy apple products at walmart... But that's beside the point

Mackenzie · Post by **Mackenzie** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:53 am

I will be the first to complain about driving to far. There hasn't been a pg dealer within 200 miles of where I live in along time, and I'm certainly not driving that far... Pg really needs to step the game up. Right now I'm not impressed.

dontlookatme · Post by **dontlookatme** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:42 am

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:If PG modeled their site like JL and put in a store it would make most of us happy. JL doesn't whore gear out but they do offer support and keep prices in check..... And in turn keep B&M's under control....

Maybe AMMP should be the ONLY online retailer and leave it at that..... All MSRP pricing and free shipping......done..........

x5

Don't waste my time and I won't waste a shops time, a shop will get their clientele from other brands and first time pg buyers. I'll pay msrp direct from pg

dwnrodeo · Post by **dwnrodeo** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:17 pm

Frequently Asked Questions

General
Where can I buy Phoenix Gold products?
Phoenix Gold electronics, speakers, and accessories are widely available from traditional car stereo retail stores, as well as from online dealers and national distributors. To find a dealer, try our dealer locator.

Straight from PG's website. Typical PG typo's? I for one would be for AAMP selling PG direct online. I don't even think there's a PG dealer in MI. At least I can't think of one within hundreds of miles of me.

Pug}{maN · Post by **Pug}{maN** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:02 pm

Mackenzie wrote:I will be the first to complain about driving to far. There hasn't been a pg dealer within 200 miles of where I live in along time, and I'm certainly not driving that far.

im in the same boat, if its not on line i cant get it here...

Pillow · Post by **Pillow** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:21 pm

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:

If PG modeled their site like JL and put in a store it would make most of us happy. JL doesn't whore gear out but they do offer support and keep prices in check..... And in turn keep B&M's under control....

Maybe AMMP should be the ONLY online retailer and leave it at that..... All MSRP pricing and free shipping......done..........

x6

bruther · Post by **bruther** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:31 pm

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:If PG modeled their site like JL and put in a store it would make most of us happy. JL doesn't whore gear out but they do offer support and keep prices in check..... And in turn keep B&M's under control....

Maybe AMMP should be the ONLY online retailer and leave it at that..... All MSRP pricing and free shipping......done..........

x7

Audiophiliac · Post by **Audiophiliac** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:00 pm

I agree with the direct online store concept as well. It especially makes sense for those without dealers near them. As far as I know, there is not one here. My friend at Aspen Sound carries Stinger products, so maybe there is a chance, but I am not holding my breath.

As far as pricing concerns go, people are used to being able to find dirt cheap prices on stuff because it gets whored out all over the net (not just with car audio either). They feel entitled to these same cheap ass prices everywhere they shop. It is ridiculous. If you have a $500 budget for an amplifier, you should be shopping for $500 amplifiers...not shopping for $700 amplifiers for $500.

If PG was able to control their distribution in the past, no one would have been paying any different to buy their stuff online vs. B&Ms anyway. So you should not expect to save much $$, if any, if PG were to distribute through authorized online retailers that stuck to pricing policies.

If your B&M will not sell you products at MAP, then you either have a douche of a sales person or you are the douche and he is trying to give you a clue to go away and do not return.

NewOldStock · Post by **NewOldStock** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:31 pm

I am willing to admit if I am wrong, if you can tell me of 1 car audio company that doesn't sell online that owns enough of the car audio market to compete with the likes of Kicker, JL Audio, Rockford Fosgate or even Clarion.

JL audio gear isn't priced that much differently than PG... they have a MASSIVE following, sell TONS of product and are pretty well the "coke" of car audio. And sure enough... they sell products online and somehow still manage to maintain brand loyalty, dealership loyalty and price.

NOT selling online is a mistake that will cost lost $$ in sales, lost market share and ultimately a loss in fan-base.

How many people buy from B&M stores anymore when they can go to crutchfield and buy the same stuff for the same price without the hassle?

We can argue all day how nice it is and how cool it is to buy from a B&M but the reality is that a MASSIVE portion of the car audio industry doesn't now and never will go back to shopping at a B&M. There are hundreds of marketing studies that show what I am talking about... Even Walmart, the biggest B&M of all time has online sales for god sakes. Not selling online guarantees that PG will never tap into that MASSIVE market share and therefore never get a cut of the billions of dollars spent online. Ignoring the billions of dollars and the proven market trend of online shopping will without doubt lead to financial problems for PG, just like it has for hundreds of other companies that have gone out of business because they didnt pay attention to the market.

Take the time, build a strong dealer base, sell the products factory direct, control prices, make money and build a loyal following with high quality gear that can be had at decent prices anywhere.

I may not be the best installer on the planet, but I have built, owned and sold my own company before... a TINY little startup that sold products to B&M dealers as well as "factory direct". We maintained a low profit margin to dealers and sold direct for the same price that we set at MSRP, plus shipping and made an unbelievable amount of money through volume. It didnt diminish the brand because we made high quality parts. We didnt advertise, we relied on word of mouth. Ended up making enough money to put both my kids through college (in about 2.5 years, with a limited product lineup) before selling the company to a massive conglomerate that whored out the products and dropped the name. I spent countless long days in dealers all around the Pacific Northwest getting our products in the door, guaranteeing the dealers that their prices would be protected and therefore their profit margins. Visibly superior product for slightly lower prices than the competitor... JUST like what PG is trying to do. We never scavenged business from our dealers because the guys buying online were never going to go to a dealer, they were just going to buy someone elses products...

KyferEz · Post by **KyferEz** » Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:19 am

FuzzyHoNutz wrote:If PG modeled their site like JL and put in a store it would make most of us happy. JL doesn't whore gear out but they do offer support and keep prices in check..... And in turn keep B&M's under control....

Maybe AMMP should be the ONLY online retailer and leave it at that..... All MSRP pricing and free shipping......done..........

X8

GlasSman · Post by **GlasSman** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:54 pm

Jason84 wrote:

As for pricing I think the new PG gear is very reasonably priced. If you cant afford to pay retail for something maybe you shouldnt be buying it?

That is an outright offensive and ignorant statement.

Post by **Bfowler** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:06 pm

hmm, yeah i dont think i have ever paid retail for anything audio related ever.

gridracer · Post by **gridracer** » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:45 pm

I haven't either.

GlasSman · Post by **GlasSman** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:00 am

Bfowler wrote:hmm, yeah I don't think i have ever paid retail for anything audio related ever.

I never have....and don't plan on it.

It's funny....the same guys that complain that no one is paying retail and the B&M business is dying are the same guys that'll use their employee discount.

I can look at the issue from both sides of the fence...as a consumer and as a retailer.....the consumer side of me always wins......because I love this hobby and can be objective which apparently is lost to some people that work in the industry.

bryceovataamp · Post by **bryceovataamp** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:45 pm

I can see that this is a fairly heated topic and many of you have brought up very valid points.

Right now, we are standing behind our sales and distribution policy (read it at http://www.phoenixgold.com/internetSalesPolicy.aspx ). But, your thoughts, opinions and feedback is valuable to us - otherwise myself, Kevin and Morgan wouldn't be on here on a daily basis. That said, I would not rule out a "slight modification" in the future based on some of the recommendations made here.

PG will have NO internet sales... piss-poor decision IMO

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Internet Sales