Ti Amps-Any reviews on them yet?

[MW3]

I could believe it when you were producing ms numbers but until you show pics of asian workers with headphones I am tempted to try and borrow a BS card. EVERY amp? How many are you planning on making?

Yes, why is that hard to believe?

MS, M, ZX, ZXti, ZX, ZPA, XS, Tantrum, etc all went through the same test.

Listening test is nothing compared to the Audio Precision testing that goes through an amplifier with a fine tooth comb. I would say less than 2% of the amps coming out of Asia are AP tested. It an expensive piece of equipment and slows the production process greatly, but if you want tight QC you must have it.

[stipud]

I love having Morgan around... He's got the inside scoop on everything, old and new!

It looks like I could fit an S400.4 and S1000.1 into the same footprint as my Ti500.4. That's some serious power in a small package. Compared to my 75x2 + 250x1 it would make 150x2 (bridged) and 1000x1! Let that sink in for a sec!

[eulogious]

I know, that's awesome! If these amps are reasonably priced, I can see some of them ending up in my subie... I can't wait to get the "low" down on these amps!

[Kevin Siegel]

Not only do we test overseas, we also do random testing here in our facility in Florida. This is a good way to make sure quality control is up to spec on all ends.

[Eric D]

When I worked for Rockford I stumbled upon the paperwork for our Audio Precision System One. I believe it was around $50k with the options we had added to it.

[ttocs]

random testing I can fully understand, but again how many Ti amps are you planning on making and how much time is spent listening to them? What does the tech to during the test for the standard production amps, and what is done during the random testing? I noticed you didn't list the xenon or ryval amps above, did they do this test?

If it is done then I will have to give it up to ya, the simple steps are often the most difficult. It too like having the source on here to get the word from the source, thanks for answering guys my usual pessemistic broken record comments.

[Rold Gold]

So...............
Where are the other pix Eric...............

[southfloridaPGlover]

[12voltjunky]

I wanna see more.

[Eric D]

Hopefully later today I will be putting the S1000.1 into my friends car and we will beat on it with his TRF woofer.

[Eric D]

Well, I opened up the Ti800.4 today and I have mixed feelings so far.

The fit and finish is probably the best I have ever seen out of PG, going all the way back to the beginning of the company.

However, I am getting only 22V RMS out of each channel prior to clipping, and that is with no load...

[fuzzysnuggleduck]

Well, I opened up the Ti800.4 today and I have mixed feelings so far.

The fit and finish is probably the best I have ever seen out of PG, going all the way back to the beginning of the company.

However, I am getting only 22V RMS out of each channel prior to clipping, and that is with no load...

That's just a couple watts out of spec @ 4 ohm (121W vs rated 125W) and over spec at 2 ohms (242W vs 200W rated) or am I missing something?

[southfloridaPGlover]

[Eric D]

Well, I opened up the Ti800.4 today and I have mixed feelings so far.

The fit and finish is probably the best I have ever seen out of PG, going all the way back to the beginning of the company.

However, I am getting only 22V RMS out of each channel prior to clipping, and that is with no load...

That's just a couple watts out of spec @ 4 ohm (121W vs rated 125W) and over spec at 2 ohms (242W vs 200W rated) or am I missing something?

You are right, but that means zero headroom.

[Eric D]

Ok, guys, I hooked the S1000.1 up in my friends car on a Rockford Team RF woofer.

I think I can effectively sum up the whole experience with just two words...

HOLY SHIT!!!

The TRF woofer is rated at a nominal impedance of dual 1.4 ohms. He had a pair of Rockford Power 500.2 amps (not the chrome ones I posted for sale a month or so ago, these are the same but black and grind). Each 500.2 was bridged into one voice coil. The Power 500.2 is rated for only 4 ohms mono, so this setup was very inefficient, on top of the amps poor class A/B inefficiency. This single S1000.1 ate them alive.

We paralleled both coils into the terminal block of the S1000.1, for a nominal 0.7 ohm load. We played tones up to the point of audible distortion. We also played bass music with it as well. I measured 40V RMS on my DMM most of the time, with peaks as high as 45V. I know the amp was clipping, but the bass still remained clean (you can clip quite a bit without hearing it at bass frequencies). The amplifier hardly became warm after about a half hour of this abuse!

Do the math, this amp is very powerful...

[smgreen20]

? What am I missing? That's over 2K watts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Clipping yes, but to what extent? Double it's power???

What I get is:
40 volts squared = 1600, divide that by the .7 ohms = 2,285 watts!!!!!

45 volts squared = 2025, divide that by the .7 ohms = 2,892 watts!!!!!

Granted that's test tones, but MOTHER OF ALL CREATURES BIG AND SMALL!!!! That brings us back to our famed "metric assload" of power.

[Eric D]

Those numbers are correct. The only issue is the 1.4 ohm NOMINAL impedance. I need to get a way to determine its exact impedance. Either I need to get a current loop meter or a shunt or something.

[fordtough1]

I got the same thing, figured I did the math wrong...

[fordtough1]

Those numbers are correct. The only issue is the 1.4 ohm NOMINAL impedance. I need to get a way to determine its exact impedance. Either I need to get a current loop meter or a shunt or something.

Ok, you lost me here. Why can't you just measure the resistance across the terminals at the sub. Or at the speaker wire going into the amp? What am I missing?

[Eric D]

Impedance vs resistance. Two similar but different things.

http://www.teamrocs.com/technical/pages ... edance.htm

[fordtough1]

I knew it had to be more difficult than I thought it was. Good info...

[ttocs]

hey morgan, can you go over the tests you are doing on each of the amps before they ship out?

[smgreen20]

Those numbers are correct. The only issue is the 1.4 ohm NOMINAL impedance. I need to get a way to determine its exact impedance. Either I need to get a current loop meter or a shunt or something.

So what you're saying is that even though you're getting 40 volts, because the ohms change w/freq that the 40 volts could be at say ~30 ohms? or 533 watts?

That's more realistic.
I was in the same boat as Ford. I thought I was missing a step, but I had done this hundreds of times before and I had to hit the UGLYS book to confirm.

[Eric D]

I really have no clue what the impedance would be, and 30 ohms could be it. However, this was loud. Really loud. The TRF is known to require gobs of power just to get it moving. I am guessing we were more around 1500W with the 40V readings.

Eventually I will get this right though. We are going to make a new box for more output, and I will use my LMS to run an impedance sweep. We will then know much closer what the impedance is.

I am also looking into current loop meters, so I could measure current and voltage, then calculate an accurate power level.

[waynehead]

This is definately a surprise to me. I meen I expected some decent specs but if that bad little amp is really gettin down like that... I could fit a pile of those things inside the footprint of my xenon 1200.1. I want a set of the S amps just so I can show people and watch their jaws drop when they see the size.