SQ and 140+db...anyone?

[kg1961]

OMG I have a 12w6v2 in my wifes car off a jl slash 500/1 its very very loud

[waynehead]

Yeah for real, one 12 is about all I need. But anyway i will slighty change my previous recommendation since it seems you like alot of bass. Im assuming you have a car, and you like having some trunk. im only guessing from the fact that you run 1 12. So maybe try a TB with a couple of 15's such as the FiIB's or the IDQ's. That way you are working with alot of cone area, you will need less power, and your low end extension will reach to the brown note all while keeping some trunk space.
Edit: and i just noticed that you have two ti1000.2's. Maybe look into an Fi Btl. I have seen some videos on the internet of those things flexing cars like pop cans but you must say goodbye to your trunk and hello to an extremely upgraded charging system.

[12voltjunky]

Yeah for real, one 12 is about all I need. But anyway i will slighty change my previous recommendation since it seems you like alot of bass. Im assuming you have a car, and you like having some trunk. im only guessing from the fact that you run 1 12. So maybe try a TB with a couple of 15's such as the FiIB's or the IDQ's. That way you are working with alot of cone area, you will need less power, and your low end extension will reach to the brown note all while keeping some trunk space.
Edit: and i just noticed that you have two ti1000.2's. Maybe look into an Fi Btl. I have seen some videos on the internet of those things flexing cars like pop cans but you must say goodbye to your trunk and hello to an extremely upgraded charging system.

I do have a trunk and I do like a Lot of Bass but I must ask...what is a TB? Is that a Tuned "ported" Box I ask lots of questions cause I don't know squat

I have a new 140amp alternator and a new/parts store battery. The Big Three upgraded w 4 ga which also feeds my amps and ground connections. The ti1000.2 draws an assload of current. I might could put one in - but two

[waynehead]

Sorry about not specifying. Im lazy andI find myself abbreviating alot. TB is trunk baffle. If you have ever read about a speaker intended for infinite baffle this is how it is used in an automobile. Essentially you have the speakers firing into the cab through either the rear deck, or the back seat opening if you have the capability of lowering your seats, or for the extremist taking them out. Basically you are using your trunk as an enclosure. What you do is make a baffle that seals the cabin from the trunk. It is still used alot in SQ setups because it reduces standing waves and it gives you very accurate response. I have been wanting to do one for a long time. Its not going to give you the pound of a ported box will near the tuning frequency of the box but rather give you a flatter response, and most often flat very LOW.

[waynehead]

The is an example. Its not going to yeild as much output as a ported box with the same woofers but it will sound very good if done correctly. And with 2 15's on a ti1000.2 I dont think you will need the extra output. Dont be like Tom and run like hell if you hear the word fiberglass.(just messing with ya brother) It really isnt that bad, other than the sanding....I'll be honest it kinda sucks. TB isnt for Spl exactly, but when you said your spl box sounded like donkey, I just knew you care about more than loud bass. I meen we all love love bass here. But we have some folks hear that like loud, clean, accurate, make you shit your pants bass. Welcome to the club.

[waynehead]

For real bro, TB is not for everyone.Its alot of work. But its a good way to utilize alot of cone area while still leaving usable trunk space and sounding great.

[ttocs]

does the rear pass 6 x 9 even play mounted like that?

[waynehead]

I would have to guess that it does. probably doesnt sound good. If it was my ride I wouldnt have them. Thats just me.

[waynehead]

Another thing to think about, i have heard alot of good about these, and a peice of bad from someone on this forum but for the money it would be worth checking out. The sealed box specs are insane for a 15 so you could have 2 and still keep some trunk.1.5 cuft sealed Anyway, I have read alot of places that they reach low and I would have to think they get pretty loud, and i have heard that they sound pretty good.
http://www.woofersetc.com/p3416/RWE352- ... woofer.htm
serious spl and sq isnt easy when you arent dealing with a couple thousand watts. Spl takes either big woofers(which are power hungry and take up space) or multiple woofers which end up needing alot of power and space as well. As much as i dont like how much a w7 costs I would almost recommend one because of the output vs space needed. They really are a freak of nature. I really couldnt imagine one getting a whole lot louder than a pair of w6's though. You could always pick up and Fi q 15 and build a t line for it. Who needs a trunk

[12voltjunky]

anyone have expreience with t-lines?

[waynehead]

I have read about them, but I am not going to say i can cad one up for you. I am interested in them as well. I think what you are basically doing is making a port with the same area as your speaker and as long as the frequency is.

[12voltjunky]

I have read what I can find online about t-lines.
There is also someone offering to custom build a
mass-loaded t-line for me at $155 usd. I have heard
several of his enclosures and seen lots of his work. He
is definitely good but I have always built my own

I might have too much pride to let someone else build it?

[gridracer]

does the rear pass 6 x 9 even play mounted like that?

Even if they do I hope they are in seperate chambers otherwise all they would do is pop from the subs.

[gridracer]

complete overkill..........

I forgot to mention I also put 8 JL 12's into a 2 door suzuki swift I will have pics when I get home from the hospital. This car placed 2nd at PG's slamjam in calgary in 1998.

[reallyxxxxxxloud]

davewaibel wrote:
2 jl 1000/1
2 jl 450/4
1 jl 500/1
1 jl 300/4

2 jl12w7
3 jl10w6
mb quart 8inch 3ways
2 mb quart 5.25 q component set
6.5 quart component set
2 quart soft dome mid ranges
4 mb quart 25mm tweeter sets
2 pg 232 eq
2 pg 215 eq
2 alumapro 15 caps
kinetik 800,1800,2000, and a marine cell equivalent to two 3800 kinetiks

This hits above 140 and sounds very clean- costs a fortune in wire and interconnects though-

reallyxxxxxxloud wrote: Seriously with so much gear it would be a total nightmare to tune if not near impossible. Being driver alignment/psychoacoustics with also problems of multiple drivers of the same and of different sizes playing the same frequencies. It maybe loud but I doubt its SQ.

thanks for all the comments on how my system is shit- too bad your not hear so you can listen to it- I never said it was shit- I said I doubt its SQ...with 14 channels of equalization, I can pretty much do whatever I wish to do-I have an audiocontrol rta mounted in my vehicle. WTF has that got to do with PHASE or psychoacoustics corrections- "nothing" All that will correct is a response curve?
I suppose I could have a single pair of utopias', for 5 grand and then I would have a hole that you could drive a truck through not necessarily but you'd have more of a chance of getting things right "KISS for a reason", and a system that is relatively fragile and expensive to repair- too each their own- I say a lot of cynical crap on my posts- but I have never said that someones idea was totally wrong, especially if I never heard it- I was going to post up the other day, but decided to keep my keyboard quiet- I agree if I had a suburban and had all of this in there would have some time alignment issues- I do not have enough space to have time alignment issues- no driver is more than 4 ft away from me well a 282.5 Hz wavelength is 4 ft and as you go up the frequency it gets shorter-what your not listening to anything above 280 Hz?- just my thoughts on the whole thing- and well two different size subs = Cancellation effects, if using different sizes of woofers playing the SAME audio signal at slightly different phases and spl levels (I will say if this only applies if you are using then to play the same frequencies)

davewaibel wrote: thanks toc- but you were not the one that was chapping my ass- No I was and for the reasons above. as we have had this discussion in system 2.0- now that we are at 3.0 most everything has changed- was at the shop the other day and a golf was in there and they were installing a set of utopias, and a funky woofer set up, any way 10k later I sat in the car and listened to it, and it was very, vvvverrrry disappointing- the install was fine, everything was where it was supposed to be, but ridicously thin- especially for the investment- when you spend utopia focal kind of money you are expecting 'perfection', or at least near perfection- hopefully the owner was buying it for posing, and not sound quality- but it really had nothing going for it, other than staging- pretty difficult to screw that up with 4 drivers in front of you Do you want a bet I've seen plenty stuffed up let alone poor acoustics of the car.- either way, just tired of folks who have read 3 issues of car audio magazine telling me that I am totally wrong- and this and that are impossible to achieve- Seriously mate I've never ever read a car audio mag !!! and yet I've a $40000AUD stereo that is a pure hell to set up but I've been building big Demo cars for 20 years so what would I know... Yes I am breaking with conventional wisdom, sometimes you lose and sometime it works out ok-any way buddy, I always respect what you have to say-

just my thoughts on the whole thing

I never said it was shit just not SQ. I'm just going off basic physics and what you have got is nearly impossible to tune for SQ-might RTA flat but that's nothing... Sorry if I'm being to real for you but it is what it is.

Hey and by all means it may sound great to you and well- it was your money and if you love it... That's all that matters regardless of what I've said. See I'm not a total prick

[Half-Fast]

Alpine 7995 HU
ARC KS 125.4 bridged
Ti Eite 6s
Hifonics Brutus 2608D
FI BTL 15 in 4 cuft box tuned to 33Hz

Metered 141 running stock 100 amp alternator so def. not full power.
My Iraggi 260 amp shot craps, so need to get it rebuilt and try again.

[tonym]

Nice stuff here guys....

Im adding new set of Direct LXD's from AVI...They are loud and have very good SQ (I think)

2 m50's 1 for left 1 for right (pushing 2 sets of direct LXD's and 1 set of AVI FRM-70's

m100 for subs (2 JL 13TW5-3)


I like it loud and clean to

[12voltjunky]

bump bump bumpin'

tonym and half-fast,
what's the latest on your systems???

all you guys have inspired me to try and accomplish the title of this post
and to do so using one 12" sub. that's right one 12" sub.

[dvnt88]

davewaibel wrote:
2 jl 1000/1
2 jl 450/4
1 jl 500/1
1 jl 300/4

2 jl12w7
3 jl10w6
mb quart 8inch 3ways
2 mb quart 5.25 q component set
6.5 quart component set
2 quart soft dome mid ranges
4 mb quart 25mm tweeter sets
2 pg 232 eq
2 pg 215 eq
2 alumapro 15 caps
kinetik 800,1800,2000, and a marine cell equivalent to two 3800 kinetiks

This hits above 140 and sounds very clean- costs a fortune in wire and interconnects though-

reallyxxxxxxloud wrote: Seriously with so much gear it would be a total nightmare to tune if not near impossible. Being driver alignment/psychoacoustics with also problems of multiple drivers of the same and of different sizes playing the same frequencies. It maybe loud but I doubt its SQ.

thanks for all the comments on how my system is shit- too bad your not hear so you can listen to it- I never said it was shit- I said I doubt its SQ...with 14 channels of equalization, I can pretty much do whatever I wish to do-I have an audiocontrol rta mounted in my vehicle. WTF has that got to do with PHASE or psychoacoustics corrections- "nothing" All that will correct is a response curve?
I suppose I could have a single pair of utopias', for 5 grand and then I would have a hole that you could drive a truck through not necessarily but you'd have more of a chance of getting things right "KISS for a reason", and a system that is relatively fragile and expensive to repair- too each their own- I say a lot of cynical crap on my posts- but I have never said that someones idea was totally wrong, especially if I never heard it- I was going to post up the other day, but decided to keep my keyboard quiet- I agree if I had a suburban and had all of this in there would have some time alignment issues- I do not have enough space to have time alignment issues- no driver is more than 4 ft away from me well a 282.5 Hz wavelength is 4 ft and as you go up the frequency it gets shorter-what your not listening to anything above 280 Hz?- just my thoughts on the whole thing- and well two different size subs = Cancellation effects, if using different sizes of woofers playing the SAME audio signal at slightly different phases and spl levels (I will say if this only applies if you are using then to play the same frequencies)

davewaibel wrote: thanks toc- but you were not the one that was chapping my ass- No I was and for the reasons above. as we have had this discussion in system 2.0- now that we are at 3.0 most everything has changed- was at the shop the other day and a golf was in there and they were installing a set of utopias, and a funky woofer set up, any way 10k later I sat in the car and listened to it, and it was very, vvvverrrry disappointing- the install was fine, everything was where it was supposed to be, but ridicously thin- especially for the investment- when you spend utopia focal kind of money you are expecting 'perfection', or at least near perfection- hopefully the owner was buying it for posing, and not sound quality- but it really had nothing going for it, other than staging- pretty difficult to screw that up with 4 drivers in front of you Do you want a bet I've seen plenty stuffed up let alone poor acoustics of the car.- either way, just tired of folks who have read 3 issues of car audio magazine telling me that I am totally wrong- and this and that are impossible to achieve- Seriously mate I've never ever read a car audio mag !!! and yet I've a $40000AUD stereo that is a pure hell to set up but I've been building big Demo cars for 20 years so what would I know... Yes I am breaking with conventional wisdom, sometimes you lose and sometime it works out ok-any way buddy, I always respect what you have to say-

just my thoughts on the whole thing

I never said it was shit just not SQ. I'm just going off basic physics and what you have got is nearly impossible to tune for SQ-might RTA flat but that's nothing... Sorry if I'm being to real for you but it is what it is.

Hey and by all means it may sound great to you and well- it was your money and if you love it... That's all that matters regardless of what I've said. See I'm not a total prick

I can vouch for Dave's system and have seen / heard it in person many times and can tell you that the SPL and SQ are both there . Listing comps you have is all fine and well, but if you don't tune it (by ear or equipment), it will sound like ass and everyone's opinion is different . The system I just installed in my sig would easily hit 140db, but why would I want to do that and risk damaging the stuff I have , not to mention blowing out a back window for that matter. If your doing SPL drags and the like, then your really not worried about the SQ portion of it and vice versa, but to have both takes a good ear (and Dave DEFINITELY has that) as well as taking into consideration all points in the install . Too each their own, but until you actually hear someone's system, it's all speculation as to how it'll sound. Just my .02c and knowing that Dave and others on this phorum have been installing car audio for a shit load of years shows their love for the game and it's either do it right or go home, there's no half-assed ways around a great loud and clear system without knowing what you're doing.
Dave - Can't wait to hear and see the new set up and I challange anyone ...and I mean ANYONE on this phorum to try and match what they have to yours, and can without a doubt say that they'll all be put in their place and have their doubts crushed after just a few minutes of SQ listening enjoyment.

[davewaibel]

Thanks bryan! I appreciate the words of encouragement- as far as the latest 'mod' to the system, I am with you, cant wait till I get that on line- I am sure that will be breaking some acoustic nono's, but should be fun, none the less-

[smgreen20]

On the TL mic, I am JUST over the 140dB mark at around 142.

My set up is strictly SQ now, but I have 8 EQ presets in which I can adjust to varying tastes.

HU: Eclipse AVN6620
Amp: Audison LRx5.1k -it's the only amp too
Tweeters: PG Elites
Mids: 6 1/2" Silver Flutes
Subs: Two 12" TREO SSi12.22's
Processing: Audio Control DQS, PG BassCube

Set up: Tweets are in the A-pillars
Mids are in door pods sealed ~.15 cf
Subs are in a 3 cf ported box tuned to 37Hz

Hope that helps.

My install link is in my signature below. Have a look/see.

[12voltjunky]

smgreen,

your install looks great to me and i believe your testimony on its performance.
i have yet to cut into my sailpanels and have the tweets temporarily mounted there,
however, i am considering taking on a pillar install similar to yours. it will push and test my skills

I have played in live bands off and on for 20 years and appreciate SQ (im a friggin audioNUT)
but i have to really feel the music and i crank the shit out of it everyday. besides, im prob half deaf anyway?
im a bass player. i love hammond organs, i love gibsons and mesa-boogie amps. I like exotic home audio systems
and like spending hours in recording studios. i don't blast my tunes in neighborhoods or in my driveway or garage. i even have an
abondoned car-wash where i often go to tune and tweak my setup, as not to disturb others. i carry a gun...

so enough about me, let's crank that shit UP!!!

[tonym]

bump bump bumpin'

tonym and half-fast,
what's the latest on your systems???

all you guys have inspired me to try and accomplish the title of this post
and to do so using one 12" sub. that's right one 12" sub.

latest is my shit is loud and proud..sounds GREAT...need to install the ms8 still...only true dif I heard with it in there was the sound stage...but then again I prolly had the wrong settings for my AVI's

[Jerome]

i had in my old golf, for the front a 2 way comp Focal 165K2p on a bridged ZX450, and a bass reflex enclosure (170l ported at 32Hz) with a Oxtgen jet 18 subwoofer on a soundstream tarantula amp. Very nice sounding, and very loud. never measured.
Now i'm building a new setup in my '95 hatchback civic :
front : Focal 165KRX3 run active on 2 ZX450 (a bridged one for the woofers and the other for mid / high), using a altos mobile ucs pro processor. for the subwoofer, an PG Audio SPL Line 12" DVC2 on a ZPA0.5... should be really loud again.

[smgreen20]

Thanks 12volt,

The A-pillars were super easy to make. I used cardboard to get the frame/structure and then put body filler all around it to get the final shape and a sh!t ton of sanding, touch up filler, sanding, touch up filler, sanding...... You get the point.

I also wanted to add that the amp is staggered in power, chs 1 and 2 are 50 watts each class A biased, chs 3 and 4 are 160 watts each class A/B, and the 5th ch is 1150 watts class D. Chs 1-4 are at 4 ohms and ch 5 is at 2 ohms.