Cutting diodes on zeropoint 0.5 ?

[Eric D]

Wow, have I been missing a lot.

To start with, I challenge anyone (not just "The Golden One") to find one post where I claim Fosgate is better than PG, or even a post where I say I prefer Fosgate over PG. Good luck with it, because I don't even like Rockford Fosgate. They sold out and now produce junk. Back in the day I did own plenty of RF gear, a lot of which I still do, but there is a reason why little to none of it ever goes in any vehicle of mine these days. PG just sounds better to me, as I found in my A/B comparison noted above.

I do have some RF favorites from way back when, but they are few and far between. I am a fan of the non complimentary designs which also used the George Foreman looking chassis. Some examples are the DSM, and IX lines. I have a Punch 60ix, and it sounds pretty good. Far better than the Punch 60x2 Transana does, and much better than the Power series from that time (50x2, 250x2). I have compared the 60ix on the bench to a 60x2 and the difference is pretty noticeable. The DSM and ix amps use the same transistors for the positive half cycle of their output as the negative, both NPN transistors. When the x2 amps came out they went with complimentary NPN, PNP transistors like most people in the industry use. There is nothing wrong with this, but somehow RF managed to screw it up, and these amps are very harsh sounding. And for the record, I am no audiophile, nor do I claim to be. I just found the ix or DSM amps sound far better than the newer designs.

But, even the best RF amp can't compete with a PG, as far as my opinion goes. PG amps sound smoother.

As for the Memphis Belle, what the hell are you smoking "The Golden One"? The install shop I worked at for several years sold Fultron, and later Memphis. The Memphis Belle is a giant "turd"...

All the Memphis Belle has going for it is convenience. It is just a combination of two junk amps stuck in one chassis. And the amps it used are overrated on their output, and highly unreliable. It sounds OK, but its lack of power or control far outweigh any good sound you can get from it.

So in closing, I suggest "The Golden One" crawl back under your rock, and be sure to keep a sharp eye out for any "unstable" amps lurking about...

[ttocs]

I too was NEVER a fan of RF after they went to the jetpack/foreman style as it was obvious that they were not what they use to be. I can remember hearing a few good sounding systems with the old punch/power series but that was at a time in my life where all they needed was big bass to impress me(we all know how that feels). NEver got the chance to do an A-b comparison myself but would if had the chance to get an old RF for a good price I would take it.

I did run a memphis amp for a while, chrome chassis class D but can;t remember the model as I only got to run it for a year and half and a torroid went out on it. It was ok sounding while it played but I would not rate it audiophile quality, again nor fultron. I have to agree with him on the Belle as it was a neat attempt to make a good convinient amp but I think there is a reason you don't see many running today........

[The Golden One]

ok Eric D i somewhat respect your response ok maybe im a little hard on fosgate amp's but they where not for me, and as far as the futron amp i had it was an amp i got from a friend but it was a fairly impressive amp. and the memphis belle was an amp the local soundstream dealer had, and he built it up to being a bad to the bone amp from what he was saying is that it sounded better than the soundsteam reference series, that's him not me. but i was already a hardcore phoenix gold fan so i wasn't convinced either amp sounded better than phoenix gold.

[ttocs]

funny shit mang.

[shawn k]

wrong amp era son, they didn't have those amp's yet this was a time when the quality was the most important factor in choosing an amp, fosgate showed that they where {ten years behind all other amps of that era fact}.

Sorry bro, bud this is far from the truth

I'm not going to sit here and say RF is the shiznit or anything, but give credit where credit is due! If anything, RF has been at the forefront of auto amplifier design. RF was the first (if I'm not

mistaken) to use surface mount components in there amplifiers way back in the early 90's with the HD series. Granted they had a few longevity issues with these first designs, but they stuck

with it, and had pretty much perfected the technique with the next generation of amps (the Punch 50 would be one of these). RF was using this design for several years before most, if not all,

of the other big players were. These days (nearly two decades later), you would be hard pressed to find any decent quality amp NOT using surface mount technology. So in effect your

statement quoted above should be just the opposite like:

Fosgate showed that they were ten years AHEAD of all other amps

[The Golden One]

the surface mount mosfet was a deceptive way for them to sell the same amp design yet say its new technology it was the same outdated mosfet design, however a good marketing scam. but look at the amps of phoenix gold, lanzar, and us amps, and they all have the triple darlington stages. when at that time it was a real challenge to make this design perform well, yet they were all three dominating that entire era, so yes fosgate was outdated by not just one amp company but three.

[ttocs]

well surface mount was new technology in the car audio world and we have all agreed(except you) that they were past their prime by then. Compairing the two amps is just apples to oranges to me. Pg was made to be a SQ oriented cheater amp in most cases to let you compete in lower classes. Obviously NONEof that could be said about the RF of the same era right? I am willing to bet there are just as many spl trophy won in competition by rf as there are sq trophy by pg, and in just spl I would probably say rf.

Going around saying the same stuff a dealer told you years go just goes to show that you do not understand what a dealer does. They are there to sell you something, something you can afford and that they have instock. Sayin that the memphis crap was as good or better then soundstream would led be to believe that he thought that you were there to actually buy something and only had a memphis amp in. the first rule I was taught when selling was to know what you have in stock and sell what is in stock. That means that if you come in today and there is no soundstream today, well hell its memphis day and NOBODY makes anything better. But then if I sell that one amp and get some more soundstream instock that tomorrow SOUNDSTREAM WILL RULE THE WORLD. Getting real advice from salesmen will rarely happen, they are there to sell you so there is only good/better/best and nothing that I sell is sub par, for example like fultron. Were they tripple darlington? You sound like the same cheap salesman the way you push pg, we all like it but it seems that you can't admit there are other good companies out there that might do some parts of the job better for fear we would buy the other product.

The only thing worse then taking the word of a salesman as gospel is taking the experience of sfome kid that didn't understand that the smallest amp they made at the time was not made to push 4 10s, and taking from it that it was a crappy amp that could not perform. I saw punch 50 rock the hell out of a single or a pair of tens, hell they made my buddies bazookas fucking kill to be honest and the thing looked like it had been dropped of a building, ran over, left for dead for 8 yrs(it was that old by then) and then hooked up. Can't tell you how many old RF amps were brought in looking like roadkill and any time a customer brought an amp in I had to bench it before we did the job, they always worked and made the customer happy.

I just hope these cheap salesmen were not the same audiophiles that taught you so long ago. If it was then you can probably throw out half of it....

[The Golden One]

lanzar had the world record in bass in that era and yes triple dalington was a factor, it was not the inferior obsolete mosfet design.

[ttocs]

what world record and why are you changin the subject?

[ttocs]

also if you want to mention RF and technology then I would have to mention the old symetry systems...... What did you salesman tell you about that piece?

[shawn k]

the surface mount mosfet was a deceptive way for them to sell the same amp design yet say its new technology it was the same outdated mosfet design, however a good marketing scam. but look at the amps of phoenix gold, lanzar, and us amps, and they all have the triple darlington stages. when at that time it was a real challenge to make this design perform well, yet they were all three dominating that entire era, so yes fosgate was outdated by not just one amp company but three.

1) Ummmmm.. The fets were not surface mount Actually, surface mount fets (referring to high current output fets) have just come about within the past couple of years (at least for car audio amplifiers)

2) There was nothing "deceptive" about surface mount technology. It's a sound technique with good potential to lower noise floor in a circuit.

3) Nor can it be "the same outdated mosfet design" since this era of amps were actually some of the first to actually use "mosfets" as apposed to BJT's

4) Are you familiar with what "triple darlington" even is? Admittedly it's a nice design to save a little space, however it in itself does not make or break an amplifier design. There are plenty of
amps that utilize this type of design without even advertising it... INCLUDING some RF amps

[shawn k]

lanzar had the world record in bass in that era and yes triple dalington was a factor, it was not the inferior obsolete mosfet design.

Whoa! I almost pee'd my pants

So what you're saying is that the vast majority of the amplifiers being designed and or produced this very instant (cough..mosfets) are already "obsolete"? LOL

[The Golden One]

a properly designed triple darlington is more powerful and many times clearer than the mosfet, and the brain washing that fosgate did to everyone at that time didnt work on those that read more into it. the surface mount mosfet had no significant improvement in sound what so ever. the triple darlington design cost many time's more to design and the parts cost more, but top level amps used it unlike bottom shelf fosgate, their brainwashing is still working today since you still think changing nothing changes everything.

[shawn k]

a properly designed triple darlington is more powerful and many times clearer than the mosfet, and the brain washing that fosgate did to everyone at that time didnt work on those that read more into it. the surface mount mosfet had no significant improvement in sound what so ever. the triple darlington design cost many time's more to design and the parts cost more, but top level amps used it unlike bottom shelf fosgate, their brainwashing is still working today since you still think changing nothing changes everything.

Almost everything you have said here is false

No wait... EVERYTHING you have said here is completely false

[The Golden One]

a properly designed triple darlington is more powerful and many times clearer than the mosfet, and the brain washing that fosgate did to everyone at that time didnt work on those that read more into it. the surface mount mosfet had no significant improvement in sound what so ever. the triple darlington design cost many time's more to design and the parts cost more, but top level amps used it unlike bottom shelf fosgate, their brainwashing is still working today since you still think changing nothing changes everything.

Almost everything you have said here is false

No wait... EVERYTHING you have said here is completely false

you lie everything i said is true 100% true you lie and it shows, fosgate maid your lye to sell more amps you spread a 15 year old lye fosgate should have been sued for selling the same exact mosfet with no improvement false advertisement.

[shawn k]

you lie everything i said is true 100% true you lie and it shows, fosgate maid your lye to sell more amps you spread a 15 year old lye fosgate should have been sued for selling the same exact mosfet with no improvement false advertisement.

LOL.. what?

I....I... I'm completely speechless

I feel almost dumb now

Thanks for that. I'm going to bed now

[stipud]

you lie everything i said is true 100% true you lie and it shows, fosgate maid your lye to sell more amps you spread a 15 year old lye fosgate should have been sued for selling the same exact mosfet with no improvement false advertisement.

Ok seriously someone must have set up a troll account. Nobody is really this dumb?

[Eric D]

"The Golden One's" Guide to success...

Step one: learn to spell. "Fosgate maid your lye to sell more amps", I mean come on you can do better than this. I am having a hell of a time reading your posts they are so incoherent.

Step two: Learn what is actually inside an amplifier. There is no "surface mount MOSFET". There is "surface mount", and there is "MOSFET". Surface mount is how the parts are installed in the amp, and MOSFET is the type of transistor used.

Step three: Learn who uses these things and where. PG used surface mount in the Ti line, and the Xenon line, and in other newer amps. You love PG, but you don't seem to talk bad about them using surface mount. PG used MOSFETs in the Tantrum amps (compare a Tantrum to a Punch, shocking difference in SQ, yet similar parts used), I think they also used them in the XS line (don't quote me), and I think they used them in some other models as well. They use them in all their Class D amps. Some crazy high end amps like Brax for example use MOSFETs for their outputs, and I don't hear anyone complaining about it.

Step four: STFU, and start reading instead of posting, you will go farther. Your knowledge is essentially the opposite of 95% of the people on this forum, so stop spreading misinformation. Your a noob now and that is OK. If you keep reading and learning, or ask questions about what you don't know, you will some day have a lot of knowledge as well, and can then be helpful to others.

[marko]

there was 2 Memphis Belles IIRC, the 1st one was a Fultron affair and quite good and the later ones were the POS class d chinese crap?

[kg1961]

lanzar had the world record in bass in that era and yes triple dalington was a factor, it was not the inferior obsolete mosfet design.

Also the have the world record in nosie making that about it..NOT SQ

[holmis]

all this is nice to know when : Cutting diodes on zeropoint 0.5 !!

[ttocs]

golden - I can appreciate your enthusiasm for PG but your really not plugging it. You can keep spouting your facts, but it is obvious to anyone that has spent any time in the industry and hopefully obvious to the others that want to get into the industry that you really do not know what you are talking about. Like I said if yo want to get into a technical battle of wits you need to pick a different opponant. I can tell by the way you talk that you were the kid that just hung around the shop, taking up all our time talking, asking questions, and unfortunatly bought into everthing the salesmen told you. I have seen sales people start to just spout complete BS just to fuck with the dude you seem like to entertaint themselfs. Unfortunatly you believed them.......

As eric said you really need to listen/read alot more then you type. The rule of listening twices as much as you talk with two ears and one mouth doesn't seem to work on the net since we type with two hands.

[Eric D]

all this is nice to know when : Cutting diodes on zeropoint 0.5 !!

I don't know how long you have been involved with internet forums, but it is very common for a topic to change in a thread. The original poster of this thread had their question answered within the first few responses.

If you don't like that the topic has changed, you are not obligated to continue reading it.

Besides, it is a lot less respectable for someone to go and start a new thread titled "The Golden One is a complete moron", than it is to just call The Golden One out on his complete BS within a thread relevant to the BS he is shoveling...

[Eric D]

One more tidbit. Yes, today Lanzar is a total joke. However, back before they went out of business and their name was bought by Pyramid, they were a respectable company producing some of the better products on the market. I remember when the Lanzar DC series of subs were highly sought after by competitors and enthusiasts. The first sub I ever owned was a Lanzar OA15.

As for them winning SPL competitions, who knows maybe they did. I am not into SPL, so I really could care less...

[ttocs]

it is also not uncommon for someone to need to tell another that they are typing too much and not the correct stuff. As eric said the people that do not know better will read it from here, take as the truth and then we get to spend our time now trying to correct two people rather then just one.