Sound deadening advice, options, deals, pricing.

[NotDeafYet]

Ok, next on my list of stuff to acquire, is the title.

What got the low down... Bang for the buck.. Better places to buy... Unless a bunch of you hoard this stuff too lol.

Got a local guy to me, offering ~25 sq feet of dynamat extreme for 250$ cdn. As a partial trade towards my JL HD600/4 amp.

Haven't really shopped for the stuff yet, but I do know people pay a premium for the dynamat name/brand when there's much better value in other products.

Help a brother out

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[kg1961]

that a lot of $$ for only 25sqft of anything
I bought and Derek and I have used a product it about 120cnd for 50sqft so I know its a brand name but sound like retail

[NotDeafYet]

That's what I'm talking about. I realize that dynamat is the original, and it's just like all those rich goofs that buy ultra high end clothes.. Just for the tag. Lmao.

Dynamat is good stuff.. But I work for my money. A bang for the buck, good product, for a reasonable price is what I want. Not dirt cheap garbage, not dynamat. In between.



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[ttocs]

if you want the best check out second skin. Their entry level product is the same as the extreme the damplifier pro just kills it.

[dwnrodeo]

https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

This stuff is not cheap, but sometimes you get what you pay for. Don has done his homework and has tested other manufacturers products. I'm currently saving my coin to purchase enough to do my vehicle.

[Bfowler]

stinger roadkill is almost identical to dynamatxtreame and usually cheaper.

i've found many cheaper mats like fatmat and edead to be almost useless.


the big thing to remember is what you are trying to accomplish is reduce vibrations. you do that with good adhesion and mass.

so what ever brands you look at base your comparison on mass/weight, not "coverage"

[Mr. Wild]

From some tests I've read, it's not all about mass. reducing vibration requires a very lossy material between two layers. CLD stands for constrained layer damping. The stuff between your car body and a thin layer of aluminium is usually butyl rubber or equivalent. This stuff is very lossy and does the dampening.

When creating a sound barrier you need as heavy as possible layer of mass on top of a very soft layer. This is different from vibration dampening. This is sound isolation.

These two need to be kept separate when planning sound deadening of a car.

[NotDeafYet]

Well, the car's carpet is coming up when I run the wires.. so something is going down on that floor while it's apart... the doors are for sure getting some sticky treatment.. anything is better than nothing, hence, the asking you all for an opinion.

My car's interior noise is not that bad, it's an MK4 VW. I do get a slight drone off the exhaust at certain speeds/rpms.. but nothing crazy. Seems to happen, or be more prevalent to the hatchbacks vs the Jettas.

And I, at this point, won't be rattling my car apart with an 8 inch sub hehehe. So I don't think I'll have all the rattling and vibrating panels, blurry mirrors and rattling license plate syndrome.

[Bfowler]

From some tests I've read, it's not all about mass. reducing vibration requires a very lossy material between two layers. CLD stands for constrained layer damping. The stuff between your car body and a thin layer of aluminium is usually butyl rubber or equivalent. This stuff is very lossy and does the dampening.

When creating a sound barrier you need as heavy as possible layer of mass on top of a very soft layer. This is different from vibration dampening. This is sound isolation.

These two need to be kept separate when planning sound deadening of a car.

thats true. im a fan of the butal based mats more than asphalt just because of the softness. and i they seem to install easier.

all i wanted to get at was when comparing 2 mats, square-footage is not a very useful metric

[NotDeafYet]

Asphalt stinks... but al stuff is the way to go. I've seen and read horror stories with the cheap asphalt based solutions...like the ghetto roofing ice barrier stuff!

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[NOT 2 OLD YET]

Try GTMAT.com! I used this in my truck for the system but also used it for sound control on my 66 Fastback. Its like 1/2 the price of Dynomat, and once in place this shit sticks like mad. I am ordering some more for my new truck next week.

[ttocs]

From some tests I've read, it's not all about mass. reducing vibration requires a very lossy material between two layers. CLD stands for constrained layer damping. The stuff between your car body and a thin layer of aluminium is usually butyl rubber or equivalent. This stuff is very lossy and does the dampening.

When creating a sound barrier you need as heavy as possible layer of mass on top of a very soft layer. This is different from vibration dampening. This is sound isolation.

These two need to be kept separate when planning sound deadening of a car.

thats true. im a fan of the butal based mats more than asphalt just because of the softness. and i they seem to install easier.

all i wanted to get at was when comparing 2 mats, square-footage is not a very useful metric

I can't beleive asphalt was even brought up unless its a typo or soemthing. I now have gone pretty crazy on mine as it started on the bottom with the exhaust and driveshaft out it allowed for the entire bottom of the car to be treated to lizard skin head/sound reducer. Its not for sound but for heat reduction I also put a heat sheild material around the trans tunnel as I have had issus the tunnel getting so hot that you can feel the heat 3-4" above the center console. This sheild is just foil and fiberglass so it isn't going to reduce huge amounts but every layer helps.

Now inside the car I went really crazy Floors, doors(inner door and oustide makes a huge difference), walls, and ceiling were all done with damplifier pro. Again if you want the best this is the stuff. I have had my hands on almost every brand(short of peel and seal) to install and use and if you hold the damplifier pro along with any of the other brands you would understand. Foil and teh rubber is thicker and it makes it easy to work it into corers and small areas. Now on top of that on the floor I also used second skins Luxery liner. This is a dual compound mat that goes down and is probalby one of the best products out for the floor. The down side is that its thick and heavy if your using in in a racecar but it would be the quiestes racecar you ever rode in. My carpet was crap and I wanted to swap it to black anyway so I went to the trim shop and got a big piece of their black unbacked carpet. This stuff is also super thick which is great with the unbacked material as you can also work this into grooves/corners and other spots you thought would be hard. I was also able to take the plastic foot rest spot that was in the stock carpet in front of the gas pedal to keep it from wearing out faster.

So for a pros/cons list the const would be its expensive, thick and heavy so you need to plan ahead to make sure that you take those into account so everything will fit. I did all the interior floor stuff while I was running dual 0 gauge power wires and because of the thickness of the luxery liner material I cut areas out of it to allow the wire to go where i needed it to and when its done you will not be able to tell there is two 0 gauge wire runs under it.

Now for the pros area again this is the best quality stuff I have seen made and would not do it dfferently if I had to it again. You might need to save up a little longer to afford it but once you get it in your hands you will see its worth it.

[kg1961]

I like the stuff i use drock and knight358 uses the stuff i buy
I have used others but best $$ to sqft imo

[Eric D]

Name brand sound deadener is so expensive, keep in mind if you could do one layer of something name brand, you can probably do three (or more) layers of a non car audio product you find at Lowes or Home Depot (like ice guard for example). 3 Layers of something cheap are likely going to way outperform one layer of something expensive. All of these products are about adding mass to thin metal to lower its resonant frequency. More mass = lower frequency.

I do prefer installing the modern products you can work with easily, but if you have a heat gun, some gloves, lots of patience, and a love for a really nasty smelling car, you can get great results with many different cheap products.

[ttocs]

Eric have you or would you ever run peel and seal in your car or are we just starting from the very bottom of the barrel? if you have ever seen the asphault based stuff get hot enough it melts and drips and makes a mess you would not even consider putting it in your car. I don't care how much it saves you today if down the road it causes more problems. I have seen it way to many times and not just in the heat of the desert in phoenix but just in the Midwest as well. If you really just want to rig something cheap I think the only home DIY I saw that didn't look like a nightmare to come later was silicon and BB's smeared all over.

[NotDeafYet]

yeah... the cheap peel and stick ice guard asphalt stuff is not gonna be an option. I read into it.. great idea at first, but in the end, not a good idea. The whole smell thing is an issue, let alone the stuff oozing off the panels in the heat. We get pretty hot humid weather here, even in CANADA.. not gonna cheap out that bad.

I have enough smells from my diesel exhaust lol..

Keep the ideas coming though, it's why I posted!!

[ttocs]

are there rattles you are wanting to stop or just wanting to keep some of the road noise out? There are different types for different areas and sometimes you still have to throw something together to keep stuff from rattling. I prefer the butyl based types myself and again second skin is the only type I will use now. all you need to do is to hold the damplfier pro in one hand and what ever you think is great in the other from that point on all the others just seem insignificant and cheap. everything about that stuff from the foil to the butyl is thicker and it makes a difference. with extreme If you had to work it down into a crease or something the foil can tear and the you can even go through the butyl as well. My only warning on it is to be careful as the foil is stiff enough to cut you and its not as nice and clean as a paper cut needles to say.

I don't think anyone has mentioned any spray types. Check out lizard skin as they are a lighter weight and it does look better although I have to wonder how it would stack up against one of the other traditional heavy type. When I had my sub-frame connectors welded on I had them go ahead and do the bottom in lizard skin mainly as a rust preventative following the welding but it does have the ability to reject noise according to them. Now my car has lizard skin on the bottom, damplifier pro on top and then finally the luxery liner under the carpet where the stock JUTE material would be makes for a super quiet ride if it were not for the side exhaust/headers/ect

[Eric D]

I have only used sound deadening products once on a personally related (friend or family) system. I used Cascade VB-2 to seal holes in the rear deck of a system I was doing two infinite baffle subs in.

Otherwise, I have never installed any in a system I have owned, or even any in a friends system. Honestly, I don't believe in the stuff for most people. I have used a lot of Cascade VB-1 inside sub enclosures.

Yes, I installed it when I worked for a car stereo shop, and yes, I know all about its benefits. My take on it is it does not make any sense putting it in when people seldom own their car long enough to justify the fuss with it. If I had a classic car, or some car I loved, that I planned on keeping for a lifetime, I would be all about putting this stuff in.

I agree, you don't want to use the wrong cheap stuff, as it will peal off the headliner when the car gets hot. If I were doing it myself, I would stick with proven alternatives to the name brand products, as I cannot justify paying so much for just a name, when basically the same things exist elsewhere. Keep in mind, every product made by Dynamat for example, exists in an industrial alternative. All Dynamat did is come across the stuff, then source it with their name printed on it. They don't have some advanced "sound lab" were they design this stuff from the ground up.

[ttocs]

I have only used sound deadening products once on a personally related (friend or family) system. I used Cascade VB-2 to seal holes in the rear deck of a system I was doing two infinite baffle subs in.

Otherwise, I have never installed any in a system I have owned, or even any in a friends system. Honestly, I don't believe in the stuff for most people. I have used a lot of Cascade VB-1 inside sub enclosures.

Yes, I installed it when I worked for a car stereo shop, and yes, I know all about its benefits. My take on it is it does not make any sense putting it in when people seldom own their car long enough to justify the fuss with it. If I had a classic car, or some car I loved, that I planned on keeping for a lifetime, I would be all about putting this stuff in.

I agree, you don't want to use the wrong cheap stuff, as it will peal off the headliner when the car gets hot. If I were doing it myself, I would stick with proven alternatives to the name brand products, as I cannot justify paying so much for just a name, when basically the same things exist elsewhere. Keep in mind, every product made by Dynamat for example, exists in an industrial alternative. All Dynamat did is come across the stuff, then source it with their name printed on it. They don't have some advanced "sound lab" were they design this stuff from the ground up.

I can agree with most of that. The only part I have to laugh a little about though is the last paragraph that you can't justify paying more or a name. I we were having this discussion in a Jensen car audio forum I could completely understand but it seems to me we are all here because we are basically paying for a name?

[Bchester6]

But the "industrial alternative" typically sucks in the car audio world.

[Eric D]

I will only pay for a name when I am getting something with that name. If Phoenix Gold took Jensen amplifiers right off the Jensen assembly line, and put their logo on it and stuck it in a box, I would buy the Jensen instead if it cost 1/3 the price. This is assuming the product performs as PG amps do.

In the case of Dynamat for example, they are taking existing products, and putting their name on them and then charging several times as much for it. Why pay the premium price to have the Dynamat logo on it when it will be installed behind something?

I doubt Dynamat has an engineering department, nor do they have a production facility. They are literally taking an existing product, having their logo printed on it, and then selling it for a higher price.

If you find an industrial product with the same thickness, density, and adhesive properties, and it costs significantly less, are you saying you would not buy it?

[NotDeafYet]

If you find an industrial product with the same thickness, density, and adhesive properties, and it costs significantly less, are you saying you would not buy it?

So in a nutshell, that's what I'm looking for lol.. the better bang for the buck. The under inflated price of the better stuff.

Kirkland should "make" some <grin>.

[ttocs]

sure if you know of a product that is the same with out paying for the name I would love to hear it. Peel and seal type of stuff is not that product and if you have a link to an industrial product no-named version of dynamat then post it up. We all love to save money.

[Bchester6]

I would be open to seek alternatives for things like sound deadening materials and "non-techincal" items of that nature but I learned a long time ago that you get what you pay for when dealing with components such as amps, subs, processors, etc... I also would love to see some info on off brand materials for deadening for half the price as it is the last bit I have to tackle on my most recent install and I am dreading it.

[Bchester6]

If you find an industrial product with the same thickness, density, and adhesive properties, and it costs significantly less, are you saying you would not buy it?

So in a nutshell, that's what I'm looking for lol.. the better bang for the buck. The under inflated price of the better stuff.

Kirkland should "make" some <grin>.

Shit they make everything else from danishes to tires!!.. and it's not half bad either so I would probably buy it if they did.