Phoenix Gold Sapphire Amps

[JimmyK814]

Hey everyone,

I'm so thrilled to have found this forum. There's an amazing amount of information here and a lot of talented people from what I see.

I'm a huge PG fan, purchasing my first amp back in the mid 90's. I've gone through five vehicles reusing a Sapphire SA1.5x for literally 20 years. I have loved the sound quality that is seeming unmatched by anything modern.

In recent years I started worrying about it going bad and have made a handful of eBay purchases over the last couple of years.

I've collected the following:

A brand new never used SA1.5x NIB from a place going out of business that had old stock.
Three used SA3.0X amplifiers. Two from the same source.
One used SA 1.4x

I have my original SA1.5x but when I removed it from my last vehicle the front right channel had started to distort on occasion intermittently.

I've built myself a custom amp rack form my new vehicle and was going to install the brand new 1.5x along with two 3.0x amplifiers. It sounds like a lot or a strange combination but I can get into that later.

I'm sitting here about to connect the fuse to give them power and I had remember reading about the issue with leaky caps. I haven't even examined these amps for issues, taking the word of the previous owners that they work fine. Of course they have also been sitting for some time.

I guess my question is, I've read of some amazing talented people on here that do repairs. I feel like it is out of my league to try to replace caps on these boards with almost no experience soldering anything before.

I'm excited to power these up and tune them, but rather than destroy them out of impatience Infeel like it would be worthwhile to have someone reputable check them out.

Any opinions? Are the few best people that know these amps still working on them or has time run out on that? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Eric D]

To start with, you should open them up when you get a chance, and post some high quality photos of the boards. From what I remember, some of the Sapphire amps have leaking caps and some do not. I don't remember for sure.

[JimmyK814]

Here are some pics of the 3.0x amps. They looks surprisingly good inside from a newbie standpoint.

I'll post the other 5 channel one shortly.

It seems that my original 1.5x and these 3.0x share the same white paint and blue/yellow logos.

My recent purchased 1.5x is also white paint but has single color Purple logos. Maybe a slightly older build. I didn't compare the serial numbers yet to see the sequence.

[JimmyK814]

Here are the 1.5x amp pictures. Thanks Eric, for the response. Your help is most appreciated.

[trickyricky]

Yep sapphires require recapping as well, some even have the leaky caps in the secondary filter stage (rail caps).

[vwdude]

trickyricky is 100% correct. I just recapped a 1.5x last night and the input filter caps as well as the rail caps were leaking as they are the same type of cap that failed on the larger amps. The series is slightly different but its the same brand and colors (and made in the same era).

[vwdude]

also, that other cluster of 4 larger caps that are not panasonic were not leaking but they looked cheap so I replaced them as well. In total theres 4 rail caps, 6 input filter caps, and 4 of those other ones, not entirely sure what they are for.

[JimmyK814]

Thanks for the input..

How can I tell if the caps are leaking or if they are fine?

I'm familiar with computer motherboards and being able to identify the bad caps by the bulging and some physically leaking material coming out of them. This term of leaking seems more related to leaking current?

Is the general course of action on these to just replace them before they cause a severe malfunction by leaking current to elsewhere on the board where it doesn't belong? I've seen some of the burned board pictures.

I have one of these in use for 20 years that I've floated from vehicle to vehicle and it's still working, but I have the feeling one that has sat in storage and the caps have had time to discharge completely, when fresh voltage is applied that's when they go? Or does this just randomly happen while using them too?

Are there still people that fix/recap these for a reasonable fee for those of us who are too chicken to try? I've seen a few names mentioned in the forums from posts in years past. Does different caps change the sound harmonics at all? I think that is a myth.

These amps are like a beautiful work or art compared to what you buy now. I'd like to keep them going as long as possible.

[vwdude]

These caps were defective. normally when a cap leaks its out the top and like you said it bulges or has obvious leaking. On these 100% leak, and you can not always tell. sometimes it leaks out onto the amp, sometimes you can slide a piece of paper under the cap to see if its wet, but in the case of these, they either leak now or will leak in the near future. The really need to be changed before you run power to the amp again.

[vwdude]

This is what could happen. the electrolytic fluid leaks out. not really a problem (it does eat away at the traces) until it shorts between the two leads, like what happened here...

[vwdude]

theres more examples of it on my website
http://www.phoenixgoldregistry.com/bloopers.html

[JimmyK814]

Thanks, I'd have to agree with you. You have me convinced.

The only downside is I'd probably have to practice soldering for two months and destroy who knows what else before I'd be confident enough to trust myself to try to change them out myself.

Is there anyone that still does the recapping for a reasonable charge?

I can't picture anyone or anyplace in my area that would be willing to do it.

[JimmyK814]

Cool website by the way!

I guess not many of us Sapphire people ever look to join your registry.

I found a really cool tutorial here: http://www.soundbuggy.com/Eric/Car%20Au ... index.html

It's several years old but looks like a good starting point.

[ttocs]

Soldering is not too hard. Biggest mistakes are not enough heat or too much. A good/ok iron is where to start though.

I forgot that they had the gold boards as well. I installed more then a few but I do not remember ever troubleshooting any for problems. Sweet little amps.

[Eric D]

also, that other cluster of 4 larger caps that are not panasonic were not leaking but they looked cheap so I replaced them as well. In total theres 4 rail caps, 6 input filter caps, and 4 of those other ones, not entirely sure what they are for.

I am going to take a guess that the 1.5x has two power supplies in it. They share the transformer, but have different voltage taps. This is just a guess though. By looking at the photos it looks like there are 6 power supply MOSFETs, and two pairs of rectifiers, and each separate supply uses 4 filter capacitors and 2 filter inductors.

[trickyricky]

also, that other cluster of 4 larger caps that are not panasonic were not leaking but they looked cheap so I replaced them as well. In total theres 4 rail caps, 6 input filter caps, and 4 of those other ones, not entirely sure what they are for.

I am going to take a guess that the 1.5x has two power supplies in it. They share the transformer, but have different voltage taps. This is just a guess though. By looking at the photos it looks like there are 6 power supply MOSFETs, and two pairs of rectifiers, and each separate supply uses 4 filter capacitors and 2 filter inductors.

Ding ding ding...yep, the amp has two rails. One for the four channels and the other is for the sub channel.

[Stravus]

The sub channels rails in the 1.5 are the ones that usually leak. I have purchased a couple that have burnt sub channels. I think Ricky has one of the boards still.

[JimmyK814]

Is there anyone good at repairing these?

I don't mind paying someone to do the work. I don't really feel that I'd be able to do it without greater risk than having them blow up on me