Found my parasite !

ydnap · Post by **ydnap** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:55 pm

Right. When I thought I had cured the battery drain problem I didnt realise that I had driven around 100 miles that day.
Well two days later? fucking pancake for a battery again.

I went and had the alt tested and the battery was new.. Hmm.

So, after removing most of the trunk stuff (leaving the zx and mps for the stages for some sound) I got to the part of my build where I needed the amps out. And, when I got into the house I accidentally touched the amp rem wire that I had cut on the MPS (dang that hex wrench is small !) to the shell, got a lovely cap discharge spark.

And my car has now been sitting for three days with a lovely full battery.

So, it's the MPS. The lights go out when I turn off the ignition (amp rems are on iggy live) but it seems to be the drain on my battery.

Not a problem, I'll just splice a circuit breaker into the main 4awg power cable and put it in the fuse box door at my left foot. Thatll stop it

Any ideas why this would happen tho fellas?

1moreamp · Post by **1moreamp** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:00 pm

(amp rems are on iggy live)

Andy how have you got this amp wired? What is "Iggy live"???? There should be no drain if the amp is Ok there is a turn on transistor located behind the red toroid coil in mid air if that reads shorted then it needs to be replaced.

PM me and i will help you with this the MPS did not drain power when it left my shop, so i am puzzled by this information ??? C

ydnap · Post by **ydnap** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:09 pm

Amp remotes are on the ignition live.

Infact, theyre not now as it goes because the Sony had a proper amp rem, so i wired them off that.

I'll have a look at it. As I say the lights were out when the HU was off (theres them little red ones inside) but as soon as I removed the amp the problems went away..

HoseHead · Post by **HoseHead** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:25 pm

Amp remotes should be managed by the HU remote lead (normally blue), not the ignition circuit. The amps remain off until the HU is activated. And I believe it's only 5VDC, not 12VDC. Comments?

Post by **fuzzysnuggleduck** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:53 pm

HoseHead wrote:Amp remotes should be managed by the HU remote lead (normally blue), not the ignition circuit. The amps remain off until the HU is activated. And I believe it's only 5VDC, not 12VDC. Comments?

Remote is 12V in my experience.

ydnap · Post by **ydnap** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:04 pm

it's 12 aye. And when your head unit doesnt have one theres no other option..

Post by **Francious70** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:28 pm

There sure is. Put a relay on the the radio switched power wire to turn everything on and off.

ydnap · Post by **ydnap** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:47 pm

I'm gonna fit a 4awg circuit breaker as I said. and simply shut the main power off into the amps when I get out the car.

Post by **mr tibbs** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:21 pm

Francious70 wrote:There sure is. Put a relay on the the radio switched power wire to turn everything on and off.

X2, hell you can buy a relay at an auto parts store for $5. That way you don't have to turn off anything when you get out of the car.

Post by **AVICJR** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 6:59 pm

Also, check for a power antenna wire this will double as a remote wire.

dedlyjedly · Post by **dedlyjedly** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:51 pm

ydnap wrote:I got to the part of my build where I needed the amps out. And, when I got into the house I accidentally touched the amp rem wire that I had cut on the MPS (dang that hex wrench is small !) to the shell, got a lovely cap discharge spark.

The remote terminal or the 12V+ terminal? There aren't any capacitors in the remote circuit that would maintain a charge after removing it from the vehicle.

ydnap wrote: So, it's the MPS. The lights go out when I turn off the ignition (amp rems are on iggy live) but it seems to be the drain on my battery.

You really Don't know for sure what the problem is. You said yourself that you also removed the zx amp at the same time. There is a possibility that it is the other amp or the installation itself.

ydnap wrote: Not a problem, I'll just splice a circuit breaker into the main 4awg power cable and put it in the fuse box door at my left foot. Thatll stop it

Even if you have identified the 12V+ circuit as the culprit (which you haven't!) this is a backwards ass way to correct the issue.

ydnap wrote: Any ideas why this would happen tho fellas?

None of us, including yourself, can answer this question because the problem has not been effectively isolated and identified yet! Cecil offered you help in checking the amp out and we can also help you to determine exactly where the current draw issue lies. There are methods to eliminate the guess work that has prolonged your frustration with this issue over the last few weeks!!

First things first, do you have a digital multi-meter?

ydnap · Post by **ydnap** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:33 am

I do have one Jed yes mate, but sadly it (along with all my other beloved tools, game consoles, furniture and 2 TV's) are all sat in storage until November.

All that's left of the install now are aload of speaker wires in the trunk, a 4awg ground and a 4awg live that goes straight to the battery.

The reason I suspect the MPS is because it discharged power through the amp rem when it touched the shell of the amp, but hey you're right it could be the ZX

Odd thing is that the MPS was the one to 'suffer' immediately when the battery was going dead, it would start to sound 'garbled' like it had a mouthful of cornflakes and then no sound. The ZX would continue on playing away. Mind you, I would suspect this was because I had the mps @ 2 ohm stereo and the zx was 4ohm stereo, so the mps would be drawing more current yes?

ydnap · Post by **ydnap** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:35 am

AVICJR wrote:Also, check for a power antenna wire this will double as a remote wire.

I did try that in my original install, but the 12v only came out when you had the radio on lol. If the cd was on the power was cut..

HU I used to use was the stock infinity unit out of a 2004 Tiburon.

Very basic looking unit, but man oh man did it sound fucking great !

Infact, I would have kept it for sure if it wasnt for the fact that I needed an aux in for the dvd to plug into.

Post by **stipud** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:51 am

ydnap wrote:The reason I suspect the MPS is because it discharged power through the amp rem when it touched the shell of the amp, but hey you're right it could be the ZX

That would probably mean it's your amp rem... not the MPS

ydnap · Post by **ydnap** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:37 am

No, because the amp rem was cut, I was holding the amp in my hands with no power going to it whatsoever and it sparked when I touched what was left of the amp rem (2-3 inches coming out of the terminal on the amp) onto the shell.

I have never had that happen before, although it could be fluke..

However, something else I did recently was take the face plate off the head unit (because all the buttons are stuck with coffee grr) to clean it. I know the head unit has a couple of different standbys. One is it 'showing off' (god I fucking HATE SONY) and the other is off completely. So, I dont know if the rem is active during the show off stages.

Sooner I fuck it off for a nice basic Alpine the better. I hate Sony. I hate Sony... Repeat to fade...

Post by **mr tibbs** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:35 am

So wait, you had the amp in one hand and the remote wire (that was hot at the time) in the other hand and they touched? Was the amp still grounded or touching a ground?

Post by **Bfowler** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:58 am

AVICJR wrote:Also, check for a power antenna wire this will double as a remote wire.

not always! on my deck it only receives power when you are actually using the tuner as a source on the deck....only had to make that mistake once..

twisted · Post by **twisted** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:01 am

Bfowler wrote:
AVICJR wrote:Also, check for a power antenna wire this will double as a remote wire.
not always! on my deck it only receives power when you are actually using the tuner as a source on the deck....only had to make that mistake once..

seems i have done that as well

ydnap · Post by **ydnap** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:32 am

haha the three stooges

ydnap · Post by **ydnap** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:37 am

mr tibbs wrote:So wait, you had the amp in one hand and the remote wire (that was hot at the time) in the other hand and they touched? Was the amp still grounded or touching a ground?

I explained this before.

When it came time to remove the system I undone the 8awg + and - lines using a hex wrench. However, it was late and I couldnt find the eeny weeny one needed for removing the amp rem wire from the MPS.

Now, my amp rem from the HU goes into a 16awg distro block and then goes out (or did) to the three amps. The mps had already been removed from that, as had the other amps.. First thing I did was discon the power @ all distro blocks.

Thing was I realised that I had routed the MPS's rem through the amp board and had pinned it down, so I simply cut it off 2 inches or so back form the amp, leaving a wee bit sticking out.

Took the amp in my hand and as I did the wire coming out of the amp (but going into thin air) touched the shell of the amp letting out a spark.

I had not used the amp in about 3 days, by this time my battery was dead yet it was still holding power. Thats why I think it's the mps and not the ZX. It could be the ZX, but I doubt it.. One thing I have been thinking is the end cap on the amp with all the sockets in it is plastic. Not metal. This means that there's no ground contact between the end cap and the rest of the amp shell.

HoseHead · Post by **HoseHead** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:39 am

Where's your drawing?

dedlyjedly · Post by **dedlyjedly** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:58 am

Pandy, I wouldn't focus on the mps remote circuit. First, like Tom pointed out if you had a current draw due to a remote line it would likely be a problem with the deck not the amp it's triggering. In a properly operating remote circuit, once the deck is turned off 12v supply drops to zero. Even if there were a problem with this circuit internal to the amp it could not "force" the deck to suddenly generate 12v for it to draw upon. Second, you report that the amp was in your hands when the spark occured and not connected to the vehicle. It was more likely static electricity than a problem with the amp.

You did say that you had a "main 4awg power cable," from this I would infer that you have a fused distribution block in the vehicle somewhere. Without a multi-meter I would return to the autoparts store that load tested your electrical system. Temporarily re-install both of your amps as normal and have him run a test for current draw. Write down the number of milliamps being drawn from the battery. Then quickly disconnect the 4 gauge under the hood @ the fuse holder and have him run the test again. Compare the two results. If there is a draw on the circuit it will represent itself by a drop in the two numbers you've written down. It is very important to ensure that all other circuits in the car remain constant when making this comparison (sometimes a domelight delay turn-off could be confused for a drop in current draw). If there is less draw with that circuit disabled the reconnect it and move on to the fused d-block. Run an initial test to get another reference, then test again after pulling the fuse to ONE of your amps. Replace the fuse and repeat the test while the other amp is disconnected from 12V+. If this doesn't point towards the culprit you could go as far as testing current draw again after disconnecting your remote line behind the deck in order to rule out that circuit. If there is no change in the current draw during these tests then the problem does NOT lie with any circuits related to your amplifiers! This will give you real world results to base your decisions upon instead of assumptions.

Make sense?

Post by **smgreen20** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:19 pm

I've know a few amps to store a bit of energy in the remote section. I've done that before as well.

I've had an amp on the table, no wires to it at all, and went to tighten down all the set screws and had the remote touch the case via the screw driver shaft. SPARK

The amp is good. Look else where for your probs as others have recamended.

Found my parasite !

Found my parasite !

Re: Found my parasite !