Hey guys! Been a while! Need help- x200.4 went poof

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1moreamp
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Post by 1moreamp »

Run two 4 ohm subs and then the amp will :

1 not be bridged < a big plus here>

2 see even loading even if the bass channels are pushed

3 there may be improved performance as the amp will see 4 ohms all around, and the extra sub cone will definitely give more bass.

You will still get 400 watts of bass just spread Across two cones, and everybody knows two cones are better then one. Or at least louder :)


I feel the non bridged setup is the trick to save the amp. bridging puts a huge strain on a amp. It doubles a normal amps load, and on the engineering blackboard it quadruples the power, but in the real world doubling power sells amps. the Xenon will be pulling the rails down inside and changing gains to try and accommodate the 4 ohm mono load. I would try and run even loads...C
theburb
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Post by theburb »

again i can say that i have never had a problem what so ever with a 4 channel set up going bad...i have been using them off and on for the past 15 years...i guess im just blessed :twisted:

i have had sub amps die on me many times...but never the 4 channel mid, sub combo..
1moreamp
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Post by 1moreamp »

theburb wrote:again i can say that i have never had a problem what so ever with a 4 channel set up going bad...i have been using them off and on for the past 15 years...i guess im just blessed :twisted:

i have had sub amps die on me many times...but never the 4 channel mid, sub combo..
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dragonplayboy
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Post by dragonplayboy »

seriously? It's that bad? Why the heck would manufacturers never advise against it? I've been running amps this way for a decade and this is the first one that failed, and it's also one of the higher quality ones i've run!
theburb
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Post by theburb »

its not that serious of a problem...like i said i have never ran across it....if it does happen just chalk it up to the way newer amps are made nowadays...build them like shit that way u can run out and buy the latest and greatest.... :twisted:
1moreamp
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Post by 1moreamp »

dragonplayboy wrote:seriously? It's that bad? Why the heck would manufacturers never advise against it? I've been running amps this way for a decade and this is the first one that failed, and it's also one of the higher quality ones i've run!

Was it a new woofer ?
and was it trunk bass playing thru a rear seat?

Your failure is one of many and not all were 200.4's.

I see multi-channel amps fail ever day. people ask why, trying to place blame and I explain the only reasonable reason I know why a amp would self destruct under the setup you were running.

I fix more 4 channel amps then any other, and ALL were bridged running a sub load.
You asked for facts I am sharing those facts with you. You might have wanted a place to put blame well My 200.4's are running fine and without issue. And I fill a suburban and the three cars around me with sound.

Your amp was running the same setup as 4 other people who had the same failure. Now should we blame PG, or should we look at the setup and rethink the logic of running a unbalanced load on a otherwise perfectly good working amp.

Now we can sit back and say PG builds junk amps or we can sit back and try to see why 4 different people had the same exact failure. The only thing in common is the setup. You were all running a unbalanced load on a very powerful amp. Take it or leave it happens to Infinity, Orion, Hifonics, Alpine, ...Etc....

this is a common story you bring to me, You ask me for a reason and I share 25 years of amp repair with you.
I repair and look at more amps in a week then you install in a month or more.
Being a veteran installer does not make you at fault. Your not a engineer, and understanding the inside workings of every amp made is not a job requirement for your skill set.

It happens a lot, you guy's don't see it, I DO. I am in the business of solving failures for folks like you, and your clients.

And for having installed so many amps like this for such and such time, well maybe none of them were 1000 watt rated 4 channel amps. The Xenon is not a light weight amp.
Its not like putting a 4 x 50 watter in a car. Heck I can do that and not make it blow using the cheapest of outputs.
But when you get in the 1000 watt range well their is no room for FUBAR on the setup. Their is no forgiveness at the kilo-watt level, and I don't care what output transistors you run, they just won't be good enough for what happened to you.....

The Xenon is not a MS-1000 with a separate power supply for each channel. Now ask yourself if the logical information I have given is so unbelievable.

The Xenon was built just like any other four channel amp from Orion, PPI, Hifonics, etc... Except PG has always delivered the power where others have failed.

There is NO way to control that 1600 watt power supply so only 200 watts will go to each channel in a controlled fashion, thats why your 200 watt per channel amp bought the farm, It tried to swallowed too much power thru one channel driving bass, it blew the channel and then 1600+ watts of power ran thru the short in a uncontrolled fashion :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

I love my Xenon's and will continue to run 4 corners with them as long as I can. I wish I could afford a MS-1000 with a separate power supply for each 250 watt channel but that not in the cards. And if you were to run a MS-1000 in your setup it would last fine, and why, because each channel has its own power supply to regulate its power output. Its a very sophisticated power amp and they don't make those in China or Korea. Never have and never will, it costs too much and they are profit oriented just like any amp maker.

Maybe PG knew something way back when they built those beautiful monsters of the past the MS series. The amp that changed the entire world market of car audio amps. Geezzz I wish I could go back in time.....
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Post by 444 FED »

I 95% disagree with 1moreamp. I work as an installer, and have done so for over 14 years, I've installed more than a few systems. ;)

I have ran many systems, mine included, off a single 4 ch amp, I don't like doing so, because, and this is where the 5% of agrement comes in, that the bass channels will pull power away from the other two channels, when pushed hard, most I've ever heard or seen was some clipping in the two mid/high channels, but the amp kept on playing just fine. If it was my system, I would usually turn it down just a bit at this point, as I hate to listen to distortion (unless it part of the recording, and even then I don't care for it much). I prefer seperate amps for a sound quality standpoint, but have never experianced an amplifier blowing up from running in 3 channel mode, with a pair of channles bridged for the sub(s)
I am currently running an x200.4 in this configuration until I can fix my x1200.1. Quantum tweets, BMW mids, with some cheap x-overs for now, until I can figure out what I really want to run for a front end, with a X12D2 (VCs in series for a 4 ohm load). Best sounding system I've had so far and loudest too, the box design might have a wee little bit to do with that though. ;)
My first system had a Rodek RA450, two channels powering the front speakers, which consisted of anything from a pair of 4" Sparkomatic speakers, to having horn tweeters added, all the way up to a 3 way set-up consisting of JL XR 6.5s, Macrom 4" and 1" tweets running through a Macrom 3way x-over, all the while having any number of subs on the other two channels, from a Pioneerr 12" IMPP, to two 15" JL W0-8s, every single time the sub channels were bridged, maybe that's why the amp had a low pass x-over on only 1 pair of channels. ;) I still have that amp, and it still works fine, other than having a problem with a front channel, but I think we found that to be a problem with the repair I did many years ago, of the ribbon cable between the main board and the daughter/input board. I learned my lesson never to loan equipment to "friends" got it back with this problem.
I ran an x100.4 for a while with Pioneer 5.25" mids and 1" tweets (old set, from about 1992) with a few different subs, Quantum 12s, two x12D2s, Clarion 12s, etc, that amp still lives, just put away for now in the inventory pile.
I can't count the number of systems that I ran in 3 channel mode with all sorts of 4ch amps, can't recall one problem with amps, that was not found to be a low voltage input situation or a sub that was toasted, due to the nut controlling the volume knob, not hearing that clipping that was going on, or the outputs being shorted, because the owner decided to remove the sub and NOT protect the bare ends of wire. :roll: What I am saying is that most amp failures I have seen have usually been found to be an external problem. There was that one Alpine sub amp that not 3 minutes after hooking it up to the board, I saw flames shoot past the fan, and fill the show room with smoke, that was with no load on it either, just powered up.
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Post by 02bluesuperroo »

If this is really going to cause failure how come sooooo many people run this way without issue AND most manufacturers recommend this type of setup with their 4-channel amps? I can understand that this scenario is possible but I don't think it's all that likely or we'd be seeing many many more failures than we are.
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Post by 1moreamp »

OK OK Let me explain MY point of view here. < Last time >

I fix amps. I fix amps all day long. I fix more 4 channel amps then any other type or style < 98% of them run in bridged 2 and 3 channel mode >. I don't sell amps, nor do I install amps, except for my own. I fix amps for installers that screw up also < a regular occurrence over the 20 years or so >. I save installers ass's on a regular basis. So please don't hold it against me because I am here to do this for you guys.

WHY do I fix more 4 channel amps then any other type ? Please see my explanation as post earlier here.

I don't advise amp companies on how to sell their amps, nor have I been called in to show them how to build them either < maybe I should be though as I am not a salesman, I am a engineer> As I see a serious engineering short coming in the use of 4 channel amps in three channel mode.

Why is the MONO amps so heralded by engineers worldwide as the way to go ? Could it be the single power supply to a single channel design ? Could this be the correct way to control a amp and prevent its failure ? DUH !

NOW, why does this seem to be skewed across the entire 4 channel market of amps. WELL here again please see my post . Smaller 4 channel amps have more engineering headroom in the output devices then 200 watt per channel amps do because of the shear power that each output device is trying to deliver. The proper engineering term is S.O.A. < Safe Operating Area please see transistor pdf files the designers invented this not me. SOA is a listed credential of a output device.

SOA describes the MAX output current at a rated voltage, over a given time period without letting the smoke out of the device < and its way less than any of the other ratings for a transistor that you see on the page of info from the makers of the semi device.

I can build you a 50 to 100 watt per channel amp that will not blow out when run in three channel mode EASILY because I have a huge selection of output devices that will handle the excess power demands that the sub channels will see on a regular basis.

BUT when you get into the 200 watt range of output WELL the problem starts to become evident, And WHY IS THIS ? Well at these power levels The amp would have to have more outputs to handle the exponential amounts of power that will pass thru the amps output stage. And with more outputs comes a problem. If you run large arrays of output devices to get strength and durability to unbalanced loads them you must GAIN Match all of the output devices so they all carry a equal load.

Gain matching is time consuming and can be labor intensive to do it right. Now armed with this knowledge and the current low quality , low grade JUNK coming out of China. Do you actually think they care enough to gain match outputs into sets ? And what do they do with the fall out transistors that fail to be matched <sell them on e-bay I guess>

3 DB's is a exponential number not linear. Your hearing is exponential not linear. Exponential power demand blow outputs and fail amps.

If you want to run a Xenon in three channel mode I would add at least two more sets of outputs per channel just to handle the abuse the amp channels are going to see.

And why would I do this well why do certain amp companies do it on their 4 and 5 channel amps ??? Cause it gives you durability in a UNBALANCED load condition.

Now armed with REAL engineering knowledge and REAL repair statistics, YOU have been warned that their is a serious engineering issue when running a 4 channel amp in three channel mode.

IF YOUR CHEAP ASS CUSTOMER can afford a $800.00 4 channel amp they can afford a $200.00 bass amp that will last about as long as any other amp out their. And when they blow the bass amp up they won't be so confused by the loss of a single amp while their highs are still sounding so good.

4 Channel amps were built for 4 channel operation < make any sense here> because there are 4 corners or a car stereo install front to rear, unless your running 5.1 or 6.1 or 7.1 in a car.

If running a amp in three channel mode will get you the customer to spend your money I WILL TELL YOU ANYTHING I HAVE TO to sell you my amp. If it fails later on who cares.
Salesmen are salesmen everywhere, and I don't know of one salesman that has a engineering degree unless you sell semiconductors devices < its a requirement of the job to have a BSEE to sell the parts from the makers of transistors.

My business is predicated on service not sales, My business is to help people not screw them out of their money anyway possible, My business has a warranty. My business rides on my reputation. And my business requires engineering and science not BS and salesmen tactics. I deal in finite scientific based engineering level technology not laymen guessing at what happened here, I always see the results, and I know by the damage when a customer is lying his ass of about running 1/2 ohm loads.

Now you asked why this whole thing happened, I tried to provide a reasonable engineering based reasoning for your question. If you chose not to accept it, please don't. :roll: I will continue to repair this engineering oversight, and paying my bills on a regular basis :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: < laughing all the way to the bank >
1moreamp
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Post by 1moreamp »

ADDENDUM

I have before me a JL 500.5 amplifier. It has 1 class D bass channel with its own power supply and 4 other channels with there on separate power supply


What is JL trying to tell you guys :?: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:
444 FED
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Post by 444 FED »

All I am saying is that I have installed numerous systems running 4 Ch amps in 3 channel mode, and IF there was a problem the source of the cause of the problem was found to be an external problem in low voltage, or incorrect load on the amp, due to customer stupidity or a hurt speaker, which can be due to customer stulipity. :lol:

I really don't believe it's an engineering "problem", more of an installation and use problem.

Also I believe D class amps require thier own power supply due to switching noise crosstalking onto the high frequency channels if they were linked through a common power supply, in addition to a different power supply design between a D class and class A/B.
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Post by dedlyjedly »

1moreamp wrote:
What is JL trying to tell you guys :?: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:


:no: Nothing, the JL's on your bench for repair too!! :lol: Ha. Just pushing your buttons Cecil!
Last edited by dedlyjedly on Thu Sep 20, 2007 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Bfowler »

dedlyjedly wrote:
1moreamp wrote:
What is JL trying to tell you guys :?: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:[/quote

:no: Nothing, the JL's on your bench for repair too!! :lol: Ha. Just pushing your buttons Cecil!

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Post by theburb »

444 FED wrote:All I am saying is that I have installed numerous systems running 4 Ch amps in 3 channel mode, and IF there was a problem the source of the cause of the problem was found to be an external problem in low voltage, or incorrect load on the amp, due to customer stupidity or a hurt speaker, which can be due to customer stulipity. :lol:

I really don't believe it's an engineering "problem", more of an installation and use problem.
thats how i feel about it... :twisted:
444 FED
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Post by 444 FED »

dedlyjedly wrote:
1moreamp wrote:
What is JL trying to tell you guys :?: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:


:no: Nothing, the JL's on your bench for repair too!! :lol: Ha. Just pushing your buttons Cecil!
LOL, I was thinking that too. :lol:
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Post by 1moreamp »

I really don't believe it's an engineering "problem", more of an installation and use problem.

A installation problem, I thought thats what I was saying also :lol: :lol: And most definitely a use related issue.

And yes the JL was blown on one of its four channels, as for the Jl's two power supplies lets look at a older monster how about a Alpine MRV-357 amp its 5 channel all class AB with separate power supplies, And Direct PPI 5450 I think it was is also a 5 channel class AB with twin power supplies. Oh the PG XS-6600 has two also, I should remember this I own one lol lol lol

Most makers use a separate power supply to run bass because the bass causes distortion in the other channels from power supply strain, and cross talk issues.

I am sure under proper use any amp will work fine in most situations. Its just that 4 channels get bought and mis-used a more then most, mostly by people trying to save either money or space, or both. And then they just BOOM to hard that one time ........ :shock: :roll: :oops: :oops: :oops: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
444 FED
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Post by 444 FED »

1moreamp wrote:
I really don't believe it's an engineering "problem", more of an installation and use problem.

A installation problem, I thought thats what I was saying also :lol: :lol: And most definitely a use related issue.
I guess this is where our definitions differ. I don't see connecting one sub or a pair of subs bridged and the other pair of channels to sattelites as an installaition "problem", what I refer to as installation problem is too small of a power wire, improper ground, insuffciant charging system, etc.

Improper use would be, to clearly hear audible distortion, yet continue to use that same output level, or for some reason higher, I've witnessed this last one from a LOT of people, usually followed by the remark "Sounds effing great, doesn't it?" I hope you would know what I would reply with. Also improperly adjusted gains fall under this catagory as well.

I have been VERY successful in this use that you do not recommend, with many different brands of amplifier, personally and for customers.

Nope, I would never blame the amp failure on the fact that there were a sub or pair of subs connected to half the amp, when I can always find another cause, for said failure.

As I said before it's always nice to seperate the power supplies, but a properly adjusted and used amp will live for a VERY long time, in this configuration.
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Post by 1moreamp »

Update: Blown ZAPCO 1000.4

Here lies before me a ZAPCO 1000.4 that was running tri channel mode, and alas it has a completely blown channel from input to output on channel #3. Thank God the protection circuitry shut it down when its started passing DC to the speaker.

Just another fine example of 4 channels running a woofer, brought to you by the makers of ZAPCO the most over priced standard equipment in the world.

I will continue to post to this file as long as I get these blown 4 channel amps running bass in either 3 or 2 channel mode. I will probably stop somewhere around 500 posts, just to genuinely prove the empirical data about this type of setup. My best to all as usual.....C :)
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Post by MW3 »

Interesting topic.

Onemoreamp basically you are saying any four channel amplifier with front channels at 4 ohm stereo and rear channels bridged at 4 ohm will fail?


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Post by 444 FED »

MW3 wrote:Interesting topic.

Onemoreamp basically you are saying any four channel amplifier with front channels at 4 ohm stereo and rear channels bridged at 4 ohm will fail?


Morgan
Yep, that's what he's saying, without testing the rest of the variables to find the real cause. :roll:

I've seen just as many (probably more) blown mono amps as blown 4 ch amps.
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Post by Bfowler »

^oh goodness...as will smith would say...this shit just got real
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Post by stipud »

He's not stating that all amps driven to 4 ohms stereo + 4 ohm bridged will fail...

What he is saying, for example, is that an amplifier with a shared power supply capable of delivering 400 watts, and 4 outputs capable of delivering 100 watts apiece... conditions exist where you could send up to 400 watts of power through one or two of the outputs, which would exceed their capabilities and burn out the FETs.

These failure conditions are made more likely when the person is running a high demand load on some of their channels, and a lower demand load on others. For example, assume a 2 ohm bridged load subwoofer, giving a 1 ohm stereo load, with 4 ohm speakers run off the front. With matched gain voltages and the same signal, the 1 ohm load would be producing 4 times the wattage as the 4 ohm equivalent.

Now just imagine your usual "baller on a budget", who wants their 4 channel amp to run their whole "bangin" system. Odds are they haven't gain matched the amp, and the subwoofer channel is requesting a lot more juice from the power supply. In these conditions, failure is inevitable, because the power supply of the 4 channel amp is much stronger than the outputs which are driving the bassline. Alternatively we look at a 2 channel amp with a monoblock, where the monoblock's powersupply is designed to put out the same wattage as the outputs. Failure would be much less likely in this case.

I am not sure if this would be a problem if the channels were all gain matched to the output wattage (instead of voltage) of the channels. I do not think this would satiate the bass thirst of your common consumer, or even most audio goons either.
Last edited by stipud on Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
444 FED
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Post by 444 FED »

Bfowler wrote:^oh goodness...as will smith would say...this shit just got real
There's a large difference between someone who drives a repair bench and someone who works on the vehicles everyday.

In my position, I can't just say "yep, uh huh, that thar amp is a-blow-en", I have to find out WHY that amp blew, and never once has it been because half the amp was running bass. The causes have always, ALWAYS been due to low voltage, over driving the amp, causing it to clip and susequantally blow the outputs and or power supply, or a dead speaker, which is also usually caused by overdriving the amp, clipping the amp, causing the sub to overheat and dead short. Some amps don't have quick enough protection circuits to protect agaisnt that, especially when the system is turned up.

On ANY, and EVERY system, that was not overdriven, suffciant voltage was present at the amp inputs (large enough pwer wire, large enough charging system, etc), and never or rarely driven into clipping, or just kissing clipping, and no blown speakers were present, the amps lived very long and musical lives, regardless of the connection scheme or how many channels that amp has.
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Post by 1moreamp »

:lol: :lol: :lol: Just call me "Lighting Rod" :lol: :lol: :lol:

Morgan, I see a lot of 4 channel amps failed and when the install is checked I see that it was running three channel mode or even two channel bridged type modes on 4 channel amps.

My point about this issue is that there is no internal protection that will prevent the bridged channels at a lower load from taking all the power supply through that one or two channels.
This causes the channel to pass horrendous amounts of over current essentially the whole power supply through those one or two bridged channels. MY point is there is no Current sharing method to prevent the entire power supply output from dumping through one channel, and hence the very high failure rate I see as a bench tech of 4 channel amps running into some 2 or 3 channel mode configuration.

Yes theres the design of each channel also in play here, but without a sharing/steering method to even out the power supply feed to each channel, I clearly see a 1000 watt power supply feeding four channels with absolutely no way of managing all that power to each channel evenly. In fact I see this as the weakness of the design, and that two separate power supplies in a four channel amp would be more reliable. I base this on the typical over-design involved in most amplifier channels that will allow its SOA to handle maybe twice the current load of normal but certainly not 4 times the current load that a unmanaged 4 channel power supply could deliver.

I see every brand of amp made, and inside all of them they are all pretty much alike < excluding MS-MPS and certain other mono designed amps>. And in every 4 channel amp i usually see there is a huge power supply and no way to steer the power equally to all four channels of that amp.

Under certain conditions, such as end user tampering, and bass boost showing off the bridged channels driving bass will most likely fail very quickly.

I garner the wrath of the master installers here for posting this because when they setup a system, its most probably done with expertise and correctly on their part, BUT later on when the client tampers with his setup they will most likely turn up the bass drive and WHAM blown amp. It's not the installers fault they setup the amp correctly, but if the amp had engineering inside to steer the power supply output evenly to each channel this would most likely not ever happen.


I see end uses asking WHY their amps failed. For the most part theres a simple reason why Tampering, but I also see a huge number of amps now in the kilo-watt range and 4 channels and people using them to run the whole system to save money. This setup fails regularly around here in the SF bay area, so I not comparing apples to oranges, I live here with 11 million other people so I get to see a whole wide range of issues after the sale of the equipment. This plus I have been repairing amps for going on 20 years around here. Blown 4 channel amps always seem to have the same setup configuration behind them.

I rarely < maybe a couple times a year see a 4 channel amp running a true 4 channel setup fail, and then its something normal like blown drivers, or shorted cabling, or a bad crossover.

Also please take into account the overall design of a 4 times 50 watt amp with very sturdy outputs running say 30 volts rails and then the 4 times 200 watt amp that has the biggest of outputs < maybe 3 sets> but running 50 to 60 volts rails. My point here is the bigger the amp the more prone this issue is likely to occur due to the shear power output of the power supply and the limited SOA of the highest quality outputs at these potentials.

I clearly recommend only running 4 channel amps in 4 channel mode to equal loads as I see what unequal loads and heavy handed bass can do to a sweet 4 channel amp.

I hope I have explained myself clearly to you as your new to the post as I did not want to confuse you. I have also seen a few Exile amps 4 channel running un-even loads. Its not brand name specific, it happens to all 4 channel amps made by anybody out there that uses a common power supply for all 4 channels < something PG never did back in the early days of the MS series except the MQ-430, but here the amp only has 30 watts and huge outputs to handle any situation that that 120 watt amp could do>.

I hope I have been clear to you about a ongoing after the install failure issue I see regularly here in the SF bay area.. If not please feel free to PM me for more info. I will gladly share all that my many years of repairing and my education level allows.....C :)
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Post by 1moreamp »

There's a large difference between someone who drives a repair bench and someone who works on the vehicles everyday.

Yes I agree usually 4 years of college which I have

Yep, that's what he's saying, without testing the rest of the variables to find the real cause. Rolling Eyes
In order to warranty my clients I go out to their ride and go through their install. I do this because I have seen "Frankenstein" at play in peoples cars. And by the way how can you make that statement without knowing the truth of the matter in person :?: :?: :?: :?:

I don't believe I have cast any assertions your way , I would appreciate the same from you 444FED


My post is intended to advise the many of the little known repair side of the stereo business, so in hopes they will spend their money wisely and be happy with the results.

If I have offended you 444FED then please PM me and we can deal with this matter privately, like gentlemen.
I have been doing this for a very long time, as I am sure you have been setting up installs for a long time. No where have I stated this is a installer issue or even a salesman issue.

It is a Engineering issue, and if my efforts to alert the masses of what I see as a possible cause of their grief is causing you some personal insult then please feel free to talk with via Pm to settle this matter.

I bumped the thread because I was just closing up a ZAPCO 1000.4 that was a victim of the same sort of failure I have been describing. I did this to demonstrate that this happens even to BIG names like ZAPCO also. And that it was the same setup, with the basic internal engineering design inside the amp, 1000 watts of power supply and 4 channels of which none of them could handle the 1000 watts the power supply could shoot through it, and a unbalanced setup on a un-managed power supply.

444FED, If you care not to be open to the Engineering I am expressing then , Please at least understand this is not personal against you and your background. Its about amplifier design, and Engineering points of view only.
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