No cyclone for me still...

Need help with your car stereo system? Have a technical question? Post here.
User avatar
smgreen20
Posts: 2873
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:23 am
Location: Somewhere in Between

Post by smgreen20 »

nico boom wrote:Come on PG people; share the info with me!
Put Glen in front of a recorder, with a bright lamp in his face, and cross-examine him about all he knows on this subject... use any methode needed if he says "I can't remeber".... :lol:
Pull out 1 curly hair at a time on his "ball fro". :lol:
"ZPA's will have the same sound essentially as you get from the MS, they just feature a bigger shinier set of balls."

Install:
http://phoenixphorum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16998
VW337
Meatgician
Posts: 2780
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:53 am
Location: PORK-Land OR

Post by VW337 »

If I recall correct the first cleaning is the only time the outer surface of the magnet appears like this. Sealing should not be needed.
I think we've established that "Ka Ka" and "Tukki Tukki" don't work.
User avatar
nico boom
Deus ex MS
Deus ex MS
Posts: 2089
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:40 pm
Location: the land of wooden shoes

Post by nico boom »

THANKS Errin; now I can start working on it! :D
Nico.
User avatar
smgreen20
Posts: 2873
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:23 am
Location: Somewhere in Between

Post by smgreen20 »

nico boom wrote:THANKS Errin; now I can start working on it! :D
Nico.
Don't forget to take those all important pictures.

You know how it is around here,

Pics or ban!
"ZPA's will have the same sound essentially as you get from the MS, they just feature a bigger shinier set of balls."

Install:
http://phoenixphorum.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16998
User avatar
nico boom
Deus ex MS
Deus ex MS
Posts: 2089
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:40 pm
Location: the land of wooden shoes

Post by nico boom »

:lol: :lol: :lol: BAN ME! then you won't have pics either!! :lol:
JK; I will document this as promissed. :wink:
The description we received is already great in detail, the pics will complete this even more.
User avatar
kg1961
Got wood?
Posts: 9051
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Calgary

cyclone

Post by kg1961 »

let us know if we can help or get anything for you
good luck!!!
most of my gear is gone :liar:
2020 honda accord sport
User avatar
stipud
Voltage Ohms
Posts: 14719
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 1983 4:00 am
Location: Burnaby, BC
Contact:

Post by stipud »

I will be moving this into the howto section once you are done Nico. :D
User avatar
Wakeup
Mr. Nice Guy
Posts: 5750
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:39 pm

Post by Wakeup »

nice! Thanks Nico for taking a stab at it and putting yours on the line. We all do appreciate it. And in the end I hope you get yours working and in tip top shape!
User avatar
nico boom
Deus ex MS
Deus ex MS
Posts: 2089
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:40 pm
Location: the land of wooden shoes

Post by nico boom »

just for fun; I'm not the only one taking my cyclone apart...
My part will be posted soon.
http://www.betteraudio.com/geolemon/cycloneinside/
User avatar
kg1961
Got wood?
Posts: 9051
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Calgary

cyclone

Post by kg1961 »

ya seen that post about a year ago
good luck let us know how it goes
most of my gear is gone :liar:
2020 honda accord sport
User avatar
nico boom
Deus ex MS
Deus ex MS
Posts: 2089
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:40 pm
Location: the land of wooden shoes

Post by nico boom »

Today I started to dismantle the cyclone, while taking pics for you guys.
The endresult; there is NO WAY this coil will ever come out of it's housing.
I have more than 30 years experience with restoring all kind of things, making special tools to do so, but the core of this cyclone is permanently stuck into it's coil, expanded as it is with particles.
So basically this cyclone is a $400 piece [ plus $100 shipping] to look at, and nothing more.
Sorry guys to bring this bad news; you should all CHECK YOUR CYCLONE[S] for damage, ever when BNIB. :evil:
Matt; have you already spoken to the shop that sold it to me?
If not; please PM me their phonenumber, as I will call them myself in spite of the costs; see if they are willing to compensate me.
Nico.
User avatar
stipud
Voltage Ohms
Posts: 14719
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 1983 4:00 am
Location: Burnaby, BC
Contact:

Post by stipud »

That is terrible news. I was so excited to hear it in your home :cry:
shaheen
Posts: 756
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:15 pm
Location: Souf africa

Post by shaheen »

Not good not good, I have a NIB Cyclone at home in SA as well, granted I did not pay that much for it , but have never powered it up.

It was used once I think for a sound off, but other then that has sat in the box.

mmmmmmm
AKA Shaheenk
User avatar
rolandk
Posts: 238
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Portland, Oregon

Post by rolandk »

Are you doing it exactly like step #5 in the cleaning procedure?


Glenn says "Pull real hard!" :shock:
User avatar
Jacampb2
Mad Scientist
Posts: 1563
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Beaverton 48612

Post by Jacampb2 »

This may be a huge stretch, but it may be possible to partially demagnetize it and then remove the armature. After doing so, you would have to have new magnets epoxied in, but it is likely a motor rebuild shop could do the work if PG provided specs. If I recall, you can partially demagnetize a permanent magnet by heating it to moderate temperatures (about 100° C) and applying a strong EM field. My guess is the magnets have deteriorated further than what PG expected, and the pieces are binging the armature in the stator. If you can partially demagnetize it, it may come free. 100° C is within the specs for most magnet wire enamels, so the field coils should survive in tact.

So, in short, boil it, and ask the local ER to run it though their MRI :) Or, as less of a stretch, boil it and use a hand made electromagnet of a large variety to try to demagnetize it.

The situation really sucks, but hopefully you can at least recoup some of your money for the shop who sold it. I am really surprised to see permanent magnets that have degraded that far. I have taken apart 30-40 year old stepper motors that have seen tons of abuse, and do not show even 1/10% of that degradation. My guess is there was a manufacturing flaw in the materials used to make the motor...

Good Luck,
Jason
Last edited by Jacampb2 on Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
M: M100, M44 for a custom amp project
Zx: Zx500, Zx450, Black Zx350
ZxTi: 4 Zx600Ti's, 1 Zx400Ti
Ti: 5 800.1's & 900.7 for a custom amp project. 1 1200.1, 1 1000.2
Tantrum: 2 1200.1's, 1 600.4, 1 500.2
XS: XS6600
User avatar
Wakeup
Mr. Nice Guy
Posts: 5750
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:39 pm

Post by Wakeup »

mann....nico, that sux....I hope you can figure it out or PG/the shop can figure out something for you....If not, and I sell my Clones, first one goes to Pedi, and second one goes to you.....

But in all honesty I dont plan to sell anytime soon.

And I know mine works...just needs a cleaning.
User avatar
Jacampb2
Mad Scientist
Posts: 1563
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:57 pm
Location: Beaverton 48612

Post by Jacampb2 »

Or another though, why not make some sort of puller, and get some better mechanical advantage? From examining the pictures (and take this with a grain of salt, I have never played with one of these) it appears that the stator coils are all well insulated in the gaps between the ferrite cores and will hopefully protect the coils. The magnets themselves likely can't be damaged much worse than they are. The ferrite cores that the stator is wound one are not likely to be damaged, they are just sheet metal laminations, if the varnish gets damaged, they can be re-varnished.

The only thing I am iffy about, is, is the rotor/vane permanently attached to the other end of the armature, or can it be removed as well so prevent breaking plastic/foam if it takes a lot of force to get it out.

If worse came to worse, and no one will reimburse you, and PG wont repair it, then I would personally just give it hell. It all depends on if you can justify possibly destroying $500 on the possibility that it may pay off. If you don't mind having a non working show piece, then leave it be.

Me, I would rather end up with a pile of scrap and know I did whatever I could then a nice piece to sit on the shelf. You probably should not listen to me though :D I have a pile of broken shit that I decided just needed a bit more force, or a little more percussive maintenance... After all, you guys didn't dub me the "mad scientist" for nothing ;)

Good luck brother. If I can help you with anything, just let me know. You can always ship it to me, and I can put it on the 100 ton press. I guarantee it will come apart :D :D

Later,
Jason
M: M100, M44 for a custom amp project
Zx: Zx500, Zx450, Black Zx350
ZxTi: 4 Zx600Ti's, 1 Zx400Ti
Ti: 5 800.1's & 900.7 for a custom amp project. 1 1200.1, 1 1000.2
Tantrum: 2 1200.1's, 1 600.4, 1 500.2
XS: XS6600
User avatar
mhyde71
Dr. Jekyll
Posts: 6231
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:34 pm
Location: PG FanBoy in Green Mtn Vermont
Contact:

Post by mhyde71 »

I will call tomorrow and speak with them... and or just shoot your number to them one or the other.. I need to look it up forst and that is at my shop..... if they are still getting calls there... since then I have only communicated with them via email.. but lemme get what I need to to make something happen if nothing seems to get put together (or pulled out as it sounds)...

just makes me sick to my stomach even thinking about it. I wish I had known or been more intimate with the cyclone and the fact that this can eeven happen from years of non-use... I heard from matt that this was one of their downfalls of the cleaning process... maybe and just kinda shooting from the hip here... but I bet maybe worse case, PG can do the cleaning and given that matt is famliar with what is going on... maybe they can help out in some way... what/how much I dunno.. but also Roland is also familiar with the story too... and the invoice is dated only still withen a month or so, so maybe there somekind of warranty process that can still be at least offered (per gratis) on PG's behalf if it was to find it's way there... i dunno... just thinking out loud i guess...
PAST WORK/S HERE::
https://www.facebook.com/KhameleonKoatings/photos_albums
User avatar
Wakeup
Mr. Nice Guy
Posts: 5750
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:39 pm

Post by Wakeup »

And worse case scenario....If it can be fixed by PG....and you need someone local to handle the shipping or pickup from PG's facilities if they wont warranty or take care of it from international deal....We can make it a local deal....
There's a few of us in the Portland area that can help!
Me, Brian, Harold, and maybe errin if he's not too busy these days!
Etc...
Not sure how PG handles International anymore.
User avatar
mhyde71
Dr. Jekyll
Posts: 6231
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:34 pm
Location: PG FanBoy in Green Mtn Vermont
Contact:

Post by mhyde71 »

Wakeup wrote:And worse case scenario....If it can be fixed by PG....and you need someone local to handle the shipping or pickup from PG's facilities if they wont warranty or take care of it from international deal....We can make it a local deal....
There's a few of us in the Portland area that can help!
Me, Brian, Harold, and maybe errin if he's not too busy these days!
Etc...
Not sure how PG handles International anymore.
well i have the invoice, and address given (shhh) was a vermont address.

so on paper it was bought in/from and to the states.. right?
PAST WORK/S HERE::
https://www.facebook.com/KhameleonKoatings/photos_albums
User avatar
Wakeup
Mr. Nice Guy
Posts: 5750
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:39 pm

Post by Wakeup »

Roger! :)
User avatar
marko
Posts: 2356
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:30 am
Location: England

Post by marko »

pg do handle international shipping but they use ups iirc and it would cost a fortune to ship back, when i bought a load of metals from pg harold so kindly helped me out and shipped them over using usps and the savings were big!
Ti1 headunit (unique)
Outlaw in crate.
2x original shrouded ms2250's.
Route 66 in box + custom m100 to match.
Roadster 66 in flight case
Octane LE in box.
Reactor #186 in flight case.
Reactor EQ232
Ti400.2 AL
AX204A + EQ232 + ZPX2 + TBA set
ZCS6 component set
Tantrum+Titanium bass cubes
Ti12d Elite sub
DD5 + DD10 + 6 Ti blocks!
User avatar
nico boom
Deus ex MS
Deus ex MS
Posts: 2089
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:40 pm
Location: the land of wooden shoes

Post by nico boom »

Just woke up, and after reading your reply's, I can tell you this;
I considered using more force by using what we call a knife-puller used for pulling off bearings from an axle; I'm able to construct a fitting one for this job, but risk destroying the housing that way.
I applied as much force yestrday as I could generate together with a friend of mine, pulling with all four bolts inserted like in step 5, and my wife applying force with two screwdrivers forcing the coil up under a 45 degree angle between the coil and housing.
That did not work....
The coil moves somewhat in the housing, so it is not stuck in there; it is the core that holds it firmly in there.
Destroying it would be easy; taking it apart without doing so is the challenge.
At this point I consider it lost; first want to see if another kind of solution is possible; if PG is willing to send me a core, or a motor then I will be able to repair this clone, and repair my currently BAD mood as well... :wink:
User avatar
Wakeup
Mr. Nice Guy
Posts: 5750
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:39 pm

Post by Wakeup »

IF need be...again There's many of us willing to help nico....so let us know!
Chiefton
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:47 am

Post by Chiefton »

Hey dude, i cleaned my Cyclone when i got it and looked similar to yours, when i took it apart. I had to put extreme force to get the magnet off, and when i did get it off i pulled the stupid tinsel leads off aswel, so jus be carefull. You needs lots of force but not too much. There was another guide on talkaudio by username "graeme" - very helpfull fellow, so if you need any help from me or advice from him im sure i can contact him. Good luck and god speed
Post Reply